Advanced Sleight learning plan

Feb 18, 2010
37
0
Hello guys! After five months of experimenting with cards, coin, and a little bit of mentalism I have decided that card magic/ cardistry is what I like most. I have decided to become serious in studying card magic but as of the moment I have no clue in which sleights to learn first. I know the basic sleights from the Royal Road to Card Magic already, so what I'm looking for are some of the more advanced sleights. So I need your adviced on which ones to learn first. I need:

1 color change
1 control
1 false shuffle

As of the moment I'm learning Aaron Fisher's one hand pop over. I'm try to learn the the gravity pass, but I'm thinking twice if I'm going to continue practicing it.

Any advice would be welcome regarding the learning of card tricks, and advancing in magic.

Oh, I'm Tristan by the way. I don't remember if I've introduced myself yet. I'm still thinking about my performing style whether it would be flashy( D&D style) or not so flashy.

Thanks, and I hope to make some friends here. :)
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
Ask yourself what you want to do and what you need to do what you want to do and then learn what you need.

Its a Huuuuuuge waste of time just to learn moves for the sake of learning the moves.

Anyhow, i would recommend picking up a few of Jason Englands 1 on 1s here on theory 11.

I would recommend the 1 on 1 on the double lift, the pinky count and on the pass. Whatever way you go in magic these moves are very usefull and its seriously an honor to get to learn them from one of the best card technicians on the planet.
 
Feb 17, 2010
194
0
Moscow, Russia
Ask yourself what you want to do and what you need to do what you want to do and then learn what you need.

Its a Huuuuuuge waste of time just to learn moves for the sake of learning the moves.

Anyhow, i would recommend picking up a few of Jason Englands 1 on 1s here on theory 11.

I would recommend the 1 on 1 on the double lift, the pinky count and on the pass. Whatever way you go in magic these moves are very usefull and its seriously an honor to get to learn them from one of the best card technicians on the planet.
Yeah, completely agree. And one more advice: even if you can't do the move you want to learn, don't be unsettled, you just need to be patient. In 1 (2, 3) month(s), try to do that move again - and you can find that you can do it. It's all about your practicing process and the time it takes. For example, month ago The Classic Pass seemed awfully difficult move to me, but now, it's pretty easy.
 
Feb 23, 2010
42
0
I'm not a beginner I think, but I remember how I've started with cards. I haven't read the Royal Road to Card Magic, because I have learned from Mark Wilson's complete course, but I suppose you have learned the basics (double lift, glide, ect.) from it. I advice You to practice them, and search for different variations of them. For example, as the double lift is one of the most used sleight in card magic, if all your double lifts were looking the same, even laymen would soon notice the ruse. If you have some flashy double lifts, and some more deceptive ones, it is better, than repetaing the same several times. Sit down, examine how would you turn over a single card, and try to make you double similar. The same with the glige and every other sleight. When you learn everything, you can move to more advanced stuff.

My (and I think every of ours) first color change was the Erdnase color change. My second one I think was the Cardini change (and it's variations, such as the Coffin and Ego change, ect.) If you know them all, you can go to the Internet. There are many original color changes on YouTube, and I think you can get them without tutorials. If not, at least you can come op some of your own ideas while trying to learn them. I think after the two listed above you should go for the Shapeshifter, and the Zoso change. They are very visual shanges, I live them.
Controls... Huh. There are so many controls out there, that you can probably find something that you like. But please... NO double undercuts! They are too obvious. If you want a deceptive cut control, just use the Table Cut control, or something. I suggest you a good control from Gilles Couture, which I have learned from the David Regal DVD-s (Premise, Power and Participation).

But still, I think cutting a card to the top/bottom is not the most deceptive way to control a card. The best is when they see you stick that card into the deck, and leave it there, but actually you control it to the top/bottom. The best I think is the Orbit control by Chris Brown. I suggest you to learn it, it is easy, deceptive, and practical. My second suggestion is: learn the Classic Pass. At first I hated it, but now I just do it without thinking. it is a very powerful technique, and nobody should be afraid of it. Great source to learn it is the Jason England 1on1, and the sources listed on the end of it.

False shuffles... Hmm. I think if you want to leave the top or bottom stack on its place, you can come up with your own ideas. I think doing that with a jog shuffle ofr an in the hands riffle shuffle is basic. But leaving the whole deck in it's original condition is harder. My best suggestions are the Shuffled not Stirred sessions here on T11, and the False Shuffles DVD from Ben Salinas. Both are very useful, and they teach you a lot.

I think the One handed Popover is a very good little thing, and I suggest learning it both from the Paper engine, and the One Handed Popover DVD. About the Gravity Half pass I can't say very much. I haven't really understood the way to do it perfectly, but I am sure you won't be sad if you learn it.

The performance type depends on you. You choose what you want, if you want to be flashy, be flashy, if not, be classical.

One more thing about creating things. As I am more of a card magician, I can't really see something and think of an effect with it. My technique is thinking of the effect first, and then sit down, and try different methods, and maybe make a routine. If you want to create a move, well, sit down, grab a deck, and start messing around with it. I'm sure you will come up with a control, or color change, or even a false shuffle. The other way is to think of what you want to accomplish with a move, and then try to do it.
When you have a sleight or an effect, make a tutorial on it to yourself. It is interesting, but doing this I came up with several variations on the effect. Then you can choose the best, and perfect that one.

Sorry for the novel. :D
Dima
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
I think one of the most missunderstood things by Young/New magicians is that you have to learn lots of sleights and lots of hard sleights to be a good magician, most feel that they have to know EVERYTHING, but if you go after everything it will take you long time to get good.

If you focus on only the things you NEED to know and get very good at them perfecting them i think that the learning process will be more effective and you will have more sucess.

Ill give you an example.

Most of the time i performe standing up having very little table space to use. For someone who performs standing up all the time doing stroling magic etc, no matter how good the zarrow shuffle or the push through shuffle is, it is a waste of time to spend lots of time practicing these shuffles, you will be better of learning some in the hands false shuffles.

But if your performing seated at a table a lot, the zarrow shuffle and the push through shuffle will be well spent time learning.

Same things with color changes.

If your performe for big groups The Ego change might not be the best time to spend practicing on because the angles are pretty bad and can only be done for a few people, While something like the shape shifter can be done surrounded.


Some might disagree, but for me this is the most effective way to get from practice to performance, and also if you want to keep a pretty balanced life.
 
Jul 1, 2009
648
1
30
Austin,TX
Hello guys! After five months of experimenting with cards, coin, and a little bit of mentalism I have decided that card magic/ cardistry is what I like most. I have decided to become serious in studying card magic but as of the moment I have no clue in which sleights to learn first. I know the basic sleights from the Royal Road to Card Magic already, so what I'm looking for are some of the more advanced sleights. So I need your adviced on which ones to learn first. I need:

1 color change
1 control
1 false shuffle

As of the moment I'm learning Aaron Fisher's one hand pop over. I'm try to learn the the gravity pass, but I'm thinking twice if I'm going to continue practicing it.

Any advice would be welcome regarding the learning of card tricks, and advancing in magic.

Oh, I'm Tristan by the way. I don't remember if I've introduced myself yet. I'm still thinking about my performing style whether it would be flashy( D&D style) or not so flashy.

Thanks, and I hope to make some friends here. :)

Hey welcome to the forums Tristan!

Okay now if you want to learn those three sleights well your not really going to get far in magic. But I understand is a plan so I'll still help you out.

Okay on the color change the first one I'll encourage you to learn is the Classic Color change. It is free on Theory11. Just go to their 1-on-1 section and you should find it. Since your there just download fancyband. Its a great little thing you can do with a rubber band. After you have learn the Classic Color Change. Explore the internet and see what you like. There are many color changes like the Harbor Change, El Cambio Nada, and other brillant color changes. Just search around.

Okay on the control I suggest to learn the classic pass. It a beautiful control, but will take some pratice so get ready. If you have the Royal Road to Card Magic well learn from their. After that look into Jason England 1-on-1 on the Classic Pass. If you have a question on the classic pass feel free to pm. Also I reccomend you to learn the spread pass. You can find a download on it on Dan and Dave's website. Go click on their OnDemand section and search spread pass. Its really cheap so go for it. Well since you have The Royal Road to Card Magic the overhand shuffle should help you perform while you are praticing the classic pass and spread pass.

Yeah Fasle Shuffle.....if I was you I will stay away for those, but if your dying to learn one look into the Manfred Shuffle on the OnDemand Section. Hmmmmm can't help your there so good luck on that.

On your performance style will look into different videos of Flashy magic and non flashy magic and pick the one you like and go from there. Well hope this helps. If you have any question feel free to pm.
 
Oct 29, 2009
971
0
Just around
I would second Wallmott's advice of practicing only the moves you will use (but you can still dabble in other things you may not use, just don't wast all you time doing it).

For a color change, just learn the Classic Color change (otherwise known as the Erdnase color change). Theory 11 has a FREE 1on1 for it, so look in the 1on1 section under card magic, and you should find it.

A control. For now, I would recommend the spread pass. It's sold as an On Demand on Dan and Dave.com. Look around there and you should find it. It's super easy once you get it down, and completely invisible. Obviously there are angles to it, but it still has pretty good angles. Done with misdirection too (looking up at someone and relaxing your shoulders, ect.), it would be invisible.

For a false shuffle, right now I would suggest an overhand false shuffle. You can learn this in Card College 1 (HIGHLY recommended), or Royal Road to Card Magic.

Also, I would stop practicing the Gravity Half Pass for now. You should spend your time on things that will be of more use to you now. Also, since you're still somewhat new to magic, my guess is you haven't performed much. When you do start performing though, you're going to be nervous like heck. Doing hard sleights the like the Gravity Half Pass is NOT a good thing when you're starting to perform. You will (most likely) mess up if you do hard sleights like that. Plus, you won't have any experience with misdirection, so people will know that you did some move (even if they don't know what you do), which is just as bad.

Hope this helps!


Cheers
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
I would second Wallmott's advice of practicing only the moves you will use (but you can still dabble in other things you may not use, just don't wast all you time doing it).

For a color change, just learn the Classic Color change (otherwise known as the Erdnase color change). Theory 11 has a FREE 1on1 for it, so look in the 1on1 section under card magic, and you should find it.

A control. For now, I would recommend the spread pass. It's sold as an On Demand on Dan and Dave.com. Look around there and you should find it. It's super easy once you get it down, and completely invisible. Obviously there are angles to it, but it still has pretty good angles. Done with misdirection too (looking up at someone and relaxing your shoulders, ect.), it would be invisible.

For a false shuffle, right now I would suggest an overhand false shuffle. You can learn this in Card College 1 (HIGHLY recommended), or Royal Road to Card Magic.

Also, I would stop practicing the Gravity Half Pass for now. You should spend your time on things that will be of more use to you now. Also, since you're still somewhat new to magic, my guess is you haven't performed much. When you do start performing though, you're going to be nervous like heck. Doing hard sleights the like the Gravity Half Pass is NOT a good thing when you're starting to perform. You will (most likely) mess up if you do hard sleights like that. Plus, you won't have any experience with misdirection, so people will know that you did some move (even if they don't know what you do), which is just as bad.

Hope this helps!


Cheers



I totally agree.

Its fine to dabble with other things (Like the gravity half pass in this case) but this early in your magic career its a huge waste of time because compared to other sleights it has a very limited use.

And as you said about hard sleights, DONT i mean dont go after them to early, you will be very nervous like heck performing them.

So my advice would be find sleights that you know you will use and sleights that has a wide utility.

Dont fall into the trap of learning sleights just for the sake of it or learning sleights because someone else said you should. You will end up not being really good at anything then. (If you dont want to devote your whole life to card magic practicing 16 hours a day, then thats fine to work on everything)
 
Feb 18, 2010
37
0
Hi!

Thanks for the advice! I'm still trying to look over your advice. Where can I find the tutorials for some of them? Are they all available here on theory11?

Thanks!
 
Oct 29, 2009
971
0
Just around
Hi!

Thanks for the advice! I'm still trying to look over your advice. Where can I find the tutorials for some of them? Are they all available here on theory11?

Thanks!
For the things I mentioned, I said where they could be found in my post.

Here is the classic color change FREE download: Here

And here is the spread pass On Demand: Here

The books I mentioned can be found here...
Card College 1: Here and Here
Royal Road to Card Magic: Here and Here.


Cheers
 
Feb 18, 2010
37
0
Hi! Also related to my plan is how much time I should spend on each sleight I am learning vs. those that I am performing already. I want to be organized, and I plan on practicing about 2-3 hrs a day(may 1.5 hrs in the am and the other half in the evening).
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
Hi! Also related to my plan is how much time I should spend on each sleight I am learning vs. those that I am performing already. I want to be organized, and I plan on practicing about 2-3 hrs a day(may 1.5 hrs in the am and the other half in the evening).


Well, i think that also depends on what you are performing and what material that you are going to performe.

Pick the effects that you want to performe and spend more time on the sleights used in the effects. Spend some more time on the harder sleights and sleights that your having problem with.

Most magicians spend hours and hours practicing sleights they dont use just so they can say that they know how to do them and impress other magicians, which is fine but its very ineffective if you want to go out and performe.
 
Feb 18, 2010
37
0
Ok, got it. So I need suggestions on what tricks are good. I'm already performing biddle trick and ACR. I also perform Witness regularly, although I get great reactions from it, I feel that I'm not improving in my sleights at all( I just use hindu force), although Witness has allowed to concentrate more on interacting with the spectator. I want tricks that are impromptu, and don't require any gimmicks, and if possible allow me to learn, practice, and perform sleights. Thanks!

P.S. I got spread pass, it looks great, but I'm wondering why people still use the classic pass even though this one looks almost invisible.
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
I dont know if this is how it is, but i get the impression that you are rushing things and getting into things that are way above your skill level and doing so you will never improve.

I saw that you were practicing sleights like The gravity half pass, The one handed pop over move, Tivo 2.0, Sybil and some other stuff. These are all fantastic sleights BUT they are very advanced and it is not the stuff you should be working on now. My advice would be to put them away for now and go back to them in a year or so when you have masterd other more important material.

If you start lifting the heavy weights to early they will just break you down instead of making you stronger.

Let me ask you,

Do you know about the different grips to hold the deck? Mechanics grip, end grip, straddle grib, elevated dealing position etc?

Can you control a card to the top/bottom or any position in the deck via a overhand shuffle? Can you control the top and bottom stock using the overhand shuffle? Can you do a full deck false shuffle using the over hand shuffle?

Do you know a few false cuts?

Do you know how to get breaks under single, double and multiple cards? Using the riffle up, push off, thumb count and pinky count?

Can you do a few different double and triple lifts?

Do you know a few forces? Riffle, classic, criss cross etc? Its always good to know a few differet forces.

Can you do a few good palms? Bottom, top, one handed?

Can you do the top change?

Have you read any books on magic theory and missdirection? Like Darwin Ortiz Strong Magic, Designing miracles, Juan tamariz 5 points in magic?


If the answer is NO on any of these, whatever you do. Put away the advanced material and go learn it.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
40
Yorktown, VA
Wow... Just stepping into this I get the feeling that somethings have been left out or misrepresented. While I respect most of the things that have been said, I want to make sure some things are real clear. While it is good to spend more time on the moves that best fit you, you should still strive for complete mastery of your craft if your goal is to pursue Card Magic. I didn't think that I would use some of the moves that I picked up along the way, but I find myself with more and more options when I see other peoples effects allowing me to adapt it to my own style. It just makes more me comfortable because I can say that I have most of the fundamentals at a level that I am comfortable, where in most just master a handful of moves and miss the overall picture.

One book that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet, and it isn't that much is what I consider to be the sequel to Royal Road: Expert Card Technique. The other series that I would recommend is Card College. It is a lot for just beginning, but this is one of those crafts that you can continue to hone over time.

PS I have also found that the more moves I master, the easier other moves come to me because the dexterity of my hands increases. It is like a workout routine for your fingers =)
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
Wow... Just stepping into this I get the feeling that somethings have been left out or misrepresented. While I respect most of the things that have been said, I want to make sure some things are real clear. While it is good to spend more time on the moves that best fit you, you should still strive for complete mastery of your craft if your goal is to pursue Card Magic. I didn't think that I would use some of the moves that I picked up along the way, but I find myself with more and more options when I see other peoples effects allowing me to adapt it to my own style. It just makes more me comfortable because I can say that I have most of the fundamentals at a level that I am comfortable, where in most just master a handful of moves and miss the overall picture.

One book that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet, and it isn't that much is what I consider to be the sequel to Royal Road: Expert Card Technique. The other series that I would recommend is Card College. It is a lot for just beginning, but this is one of those crafts that you can continue to hone over time.

PS I have also found that the more moves I master, the easier other moves come to me because the dexterity of my hands increases. It is like a workout routine for your fingers =)

Then what is "Complete mastery of your craft"?

I dont think having more tools gives you "more" mastery of your craft then someone with less tools. Its about mastering the tools that you are using.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
40
Yorktown, VA
Then what is "Complete mastery of your craft"?

I dont think having more tools gives you "more" mastery of your craft then someone with less tools. Its about mastering the tools that you are using.

More tools is always a better thing, it makes you more versatile. That is an age old principle not only with cards, but more or less everything in life. Granted, some tools you want to have better control over than others. But end the end, trust me, you want as many tools in your tool box as possible. If you don't believe, feel free to read the Art of War by Sun Tzu
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
More tools is always a better thing, it makes you more versatile. That is an age old principle not only with cards, but more or less everything in life. Granted, some tools you want to have better control over than others. But end the end, trust me, you want as many tools in your tool box as possible. If you don't believe, feel free to read the Art of War by Sun Tzu

Well its unnecessary to fill your toolbox with tools you wont need.

I found this post on another site by Jason England.

"But before you embark on a costly and time consuming quest for 'the pass', I recommend you are completely certain of what it is you are after. The pass is just a tool, and like most tools, it can be replaced by other tools.

I am reminded of the old saying, "Nobody wants a 1/8th inch drill bit, what they want is an 1/8th inch hole." If all you want the pass for is to control a card to top, then at least consider other possibilities first. Just *wanting* a pass in your arsenal makes as much sense as just wanting an 1/8th inch drill bit in a tool box in the garage.

Having said that, the pass is MUCH more versatile than just as a control to top, so it IS a valuable tool, but a tool nevertheless. Know what you're trying to achieve first, then look for the tool to accomplish this."
 
Jan 26, 2008
419
1
Sweden
And no, i dont trust you on this one.

Because i know a lot of card "experts" that would disagree when it comes to this, its much better to know a few things very well then being average on lots of things. If you dont want to spend your whole days on card magic you cant be good at everything.
 
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