Are DVD's A Crutch To Creativity?

[Dayton76]

Hey I dont write many threads on here, but I just want to get your opinions on this. I love magic and have been doing it for about 7 years, and I have been buying DVD's and tricks pretty consistantly if there is something out there that I like or want to learn. My question is this, does anyone feel like buying other peoples material on dvd's can be a crutch to YOUR magic creativity? Because I would love to create something new for he magic community, but I feel like most of the effects that I have learned on video, has came from other people's ideas from ooold magic books they have read.

Picture this, you have two kids, one kid you let him learn/entertain himself from television, and the other you let him learn/entertain himself throuh books and his own imagination. Seems to me that TYPICALLY.. the child who was cut off from television would end up a lot more successful in his learning process because of he was forced to use his imagination to entertain himself. Does anyone feel that magic/mentalism has the same type of effect on your creativity and speed of growth in the art?

 

[druix]

Hey I dont write many threads on here, but I just want to get your opinions on this. I love magic and have been doing it for about 7 years, and I have been buying DVD's and tricks pretty consistantly if there is something out there that I like or want to learn. My question is this, does anyone feel like buying other peoples material on dvd's can be a crutch to YOUR magic creativity? Because I would love to create something new for he magic community, but I feel like most of the effects that I have learned on video, has came from other people's ideas from ooold magic books they have read.

Picture this, you have two kids, one kid you let him learn/entertain himself from television, and the other you let him learn/entertain himself throuh books and his own imagination. Seems to me that TYPICALLY.. the child who was cut off from television would end up a lot more successful in his learning process because of he was forced to use his imagination to entertain himself. Does anyone feel that magic/mentalism has the same type of effect on your creativity and speed of growth in the art?

i don't think it'll hinder your creativity. if anything, you are learning more things you can work with in creating your own trick.

 

[Squ!rrel]

Hey I dont write many threads on here, but I just want to get your opinions on this. I love magic and have been doing it for about 7 years, and I have been buying DVD's and tricks pretty consistantly if there is something out there that I like or want to learn. My question is this, does anyone feel like buying other peoples material on dvd's can be a crutch to YOUR magic creativity? Because I would love to create something new for he magic community, but I feel like most of the effects that I have learned on video, has came from other people's ideas from ooold magic books they have read.

Picture this, you have two kids, one kid you let him learn/entertain himself from television, and the other you let him learn/entertain himself throuh books and his own imagination. Seems to me that TYPICALLY.. the child who was cut off from television would end up a lot more successful in his learning process because of he was forced to use his imagination to entertain himself. Does anyone feel that magic/mentalism has the same type of effect on your creativity and speed of growth in the art?

I disagree completely, your argument doesn't really make much sense in my opinion. I could understand if you said learning somebody elses material will hinder your creativity regardless of the source, but to say learning from DVD's does and books doesn't seems very illogical. Also, I found that DVD's often give you a lot more insight into the creative process as the creator often talks about the different stages they went through in creating the trick and how it ended up as you're seeing it.

In a book, things are spelled out very clearly through a combination of text and pictures, you can see exactly what should be happening, which is basically what is happening on a DVD. The only area I think DVD's may cause a problem in is presentation as people may choose to copy the presentation on the DVD, but for the tricks themselves I don't think it makes much difference.

As for your analogy of the child learning from TV or book, you have absolubtley no evidence to support your claim you simply said 'it seems to me', which really isn't good enough.

 

[darosa.justin]

Why are you guys being so harsh on the guy.

I think you misinterpreted waht he was tryin to say.

I think that the books vs. dvds thing wasn't what he was getting at. He as trying to say that people that are less exposed to other people's methods will probably be more creative in creating their own tricks.

This is similar to Chris Kenner's sitution when creating a TNR for David C. He didn't learn any TnR's before, so his mind was clear to think ofr any possible method to restore a card- thus, he was able to create an original one (sorrry forogt the name).

I think you have a very interesting question...

My response is just that both have their own pros and cons. Learning other people's methods may give you a guide, so you can make changes to their method and come up with something orignal, with inspiration.

On the other hand, having a clear mind will able to let you think of thinks really creative and original- that you ahven't seen before

 

[D ICE R]

I agree with the original poster.

When you see the dvd of someone performing the effect you will more often see there patter and presentational slant on the effect. Whereas in a book you are required more to create that for yourself.

Being creative is a huge part of the progression of magic and all art form's. And I feel that being creative makes you more creative. I know that sounds very like a very round about way of saying things, but the more your are forced to be creative (for example with patter) the more creativity will flow (new idea's effects etc).

An other advantage too books is that often there will be alternative handling's or ideas after an effect is taught. I know that you can see this in some dvd's but few seem to do it too the level that book's manage too. Of the dvd's that I own Believe is one which does this very well, however few others come to mind.

On a side note I find a problem with dvd's is that people are too keen to get out there and try these new effects they learn. I know the person presenting the effect is constantly telling the audience to practice, rewind rewatch etc. But unfortunately it seems like this advice goes unnoticed. In a book you often will have to go over the same paragraph a few times too get the idea of what is happening.

 

[Medifro]

EDIT: never mind ..

 

[Squ!rrel]

Why are you guys being so harsh on the guy.

I think you misinterpreted waht he was tryin to say.

I think that the books vs. dvds thing wasn't what he was getting at. He as trying to say that people that are less exposed to other people's methods will probably be more creative in creating their own tricks.

This is similar to Chris Kenner's sitution when creating a TNR for David C. He didn't learn any TnR's before, so his mind was clear to think ofr any possible method to restore a card- thus, he was able to create an original one (sorrry forogt the name).

I think you have a very interesting question...

My response is just that both have their own pros and cons. Learning other people's methods may give you a guide, so you can make changes to their method and come up with something orignal, with inspiration.

On the other hand, having a clear mind will able to let you think of thinks really creative and original- that you ahven't seen before

The harsh response was because he specifically stated DVD's will hinder your creativity but books won't. If he said that knowing other peoples methods may make it more difficult to create original methods of your own that would be completely different and a very valid point.

I don't know how you can possibly say books vs DVDs isn't what he was getting at when the titles says 'Are DVD's a crutch to creativity?', and also the analogy at the end clearly shows he was suggesting DVDs specifically hinder creativity.

 

[PTG]

It was a poor word choice if he wasn't talking about DVD's specifically being the crutch, but seeing as I think he was I would say "no". DVD's help give you a better idea how the trick is supposed to work, but I think that your presentation can be very limited if you particularly like the magician hosting the video.

Here's an example: My friend loves Wayne Houchin, but my friend is definitely more on the "funny" and "comedic" side of magic, thus making his style completely different from Wayne's (most of the time). The problem comes when my friend performs his tricks there are lots of gags and puns involved, but once he gets to stigmata BAM He's all serious. But that isn't really the DVD's fault, or even Houchin's, it's just my friend, limiting himself.

Whether you learn from a book or DVD doesn't really matter (although I tend to like books more just because they seem to have more info and are better thought out then just 'some guy standing in front of a camera talking about his effect')

Hope this helps,

PTG

 

[Chr!s]

personally, i believe that if your personal performing style is affected by watching other eprformers, then you are still at the stage where you are developing a performance style, and therefore should not be working professionally. so it's not a huge problem in my opinion, if a few hobbyists are going round after watching the daniel garcia projects, saying 'sweet deal' all the time. they're hobbyists. and when these people go pro, with the stolen style, and plagiarised lines? unoriginality rarely goes very far...

C!

 

[PTG]

Agreed.

-PTG

 

[Dayton76]

First I want to thank all of you for your replies to this post. The situation with the kids were just from my opinion, and experience of dealing with people and hearing about their backgrounds. So, I apologize if anyone took offense to that.

I would like to say though, that the question of DVD's being a crutch, came from watching DVD's. And after watching about 40 or 50 video's I learned that most of the artists that put out great material has come up with that material from their own imagination, or the heart of the effect came from a book they read.

I was fortunate enough to meet with both Daniel Garcia and Wayne Houchin in Houston about a year ago when they were making the video for the UltraGaff deck. They are both really cool people and answered all my questions over the 2 or 3 days that i got to hang out with them. And one thing that I noticed is that, they never spoke much of getting any of their inspiration from a video they have seen. Both of them pretty much just dealt with their own effects and material. Althogh Wayne Houchin did do a lot of things that I feel was inspired from Jay Sankey, but if you watched his presentations you would think that it came from Wayne. Now... my point is, that these to guys are very respected in the magic community and they keep bringing us great stuff, but none of it was inspired from video. I have not got the Daniel Madison videos but I get the same feeling about his material from the .pdf's that i read. All their material is pretty original. Now is that not what we are suppose to be striving to do as magicians? Keep the magic new and fresh and original?

 

[darosa.justin]

You're very very right.

I just finished the chapter in Strong Magic (Daniel O.) which was about style, so I understand exactly what you're saying.

Okay guys, maybe the original poster used the wrong words, so I guess my opinion was quite a different subject.

However, I stick to my belief that knowing existent methods and trying to come up with your own will be much harder than knowing NO methods and creating one on your own.

I actually have a good personal example- I tried to do an effect where both spectator's cards (with their sig) became one double backed card. I tried doing this with the backs of the cards...and because I knew no previous methods, I came up with a whole series of new moves to accomplish the effect.

However, I watched a performance of the effect from Penguin Magic and I realized how simple the method CAN be.

There's an example of coming up with your own methods without knowing any previous.

My suggestion is that if you come up with a method and find out an easier one to do the same thing- don't forget about your OWN method. Work on it, cut out all the useless stuff (i.e. over-proving) and some day you'll have a brand new, possibly better and easier method.

 

[PTG]

And on that note, it is always easier to do something your own way than some else's, just because to you it seems better. I don't use the duck change in de'ja vu simply because I think the throw change works better with the trick. With that said, creating your own trick (or even your own routine) can be easier if you don't know any previously existing look-a-likes.

-PTG

 

[filth0013]

I think watching someone elses presentation and patter and whatnot will give you something to start with when you learn a trick. you can do it like they do at first, then you might change it to suit ur own style.

 

[Ben Long]

Wayne Houchin mentioned this in his round table discussion and I'll reiterate it. Books force you to work out the trick for yourself. I personally feel that this provides a greater amount of freedom in terms of imagining the effect. If I'm working out an effect in my head as opposed to having it be shown to me, I fell I will end up with a much more original take on it.

That's just me though.