Are we all guilty?

[Sleight_of_Hand]

Warning:This thread is bound to end up with a lot of arguements and denial from people.

We all live in the 21st Century, where we can all do things which our forefathers thought would be a dream. Cars, Planes, Electicity and the COMPUTER/ Internet.What I am getting to is that even the greatest devolments have flaws. The computer was made for us to be a more free comunity, to browse the world without flying there or reading the newspaper. But there was a flaw......

The internet resulted in the piracy of computer games, videos, movies, software and of course MAGIC. Now I am asking you, the readers, who of you are guilty of using the software of P2P or Bittorrent for the use of downloading media which you wont buy? Do you also download Magic Tricks? Do you think that there is a difference between downlaoding songs and magic? Do the magicians deserve more respect that the other artist?

In the last month, I have gone to many sites which let you download Dvd's which we should pay money to watch. Some of these are: Trilogy, Distortion, Bullet, Factory Sealed. Yes released 2 days ago.....

Now the real question i want to ask you is:

- Do you respect magicians over other types of artists?
- Have you ever downloaded magic illegally.
- Why, to both questions.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Either one is wrong and ILLEGAL. I don't download music, I used to, but I ceased to do so because I prefer to support the artist who put their time and effort into creating the piece. That is what it comes down to, supporting the artist, creator, director, etc.

Downloading music or magic is definitely not a means of support for the artist.

Mitchell

 

[UnholyGodn]

You expect people to admit to stealing stuff..? That's like going up to your parents and saying "Hi Mum! Hi Dad! I Stole $30 From Your Wallet!" I'm sure a lot of people do steal magic.

I will admit to learning some tricks less than ethically (Reverse engineering from watching videos, learning from friends) but the amount of magic I perform is minimal because I am a flourisher.

 

[sourboarder]

I down load magic illeaglly all the time. But i never feel bad about it. Because of one reason. It's the stuff i down load. I bought the trilogy for $85 when i know i could download it. I bought crash course 2 when i could have downloaded it. The reason I download the dvd/ tricks is because some dvd is because i do disrespect the artist. I will not name names but if I feel an artist put there heart and soul and is really trying to push the art of magic. Lee Asher, Wayne Houchin, <i hope i spelled that right. and last but not least daniel garcia. And of course there is more. But i feel if an effect really stunned me and I don't have a clue! Ya i always support there efforts. But if i see a trick and say duplicate! at first glance ya i download it because i know the trick just looking for subtleties just to cut down embarrassments.

 

[conjure_pitch]

I learn from reverse engineering performances. I think if you are smart enough to figure out how something is done, then thats not truly as bad as downloading.

 

[MaxDeVill]

Sure, I download music. Sure, I download movies. But I PAY for them before I do it. I've downloaded software in the past that I haven't paid for. But now that I am a productive member of society and can afford the things that I want to buy, I do. Every single DVD that I purchase, I rip to an MP4 and put on my iPOD or whatever. But the key is that I paid for the material. Being an artist both musically and magically myself, I know that I wouldn't want some jackass stealing from me.

 

[THEGUY26]

It's funny how that in one of his videos, Brad Christian, teaches you how to figure out how a trick works by watching a video.

 

[Twozwozer]

I agree with the guys at GoMagicPro, I was listening to a podcast and they admitted they had downloaded magic tutorials, but on one condition, if they used it regularly, they would go out and actually buy the DVD, but if it's an effect they would never use, they just delelt the tutorial off their PC.

Cheers, Tom

 

[dasuprememep]

I used to download music and magic, but then I started to feel a bit guilty about it. Now, if I can't figure something out, then I buy it, but I can figure out a lot of tricks

 

[muhazz]

I used to download music- not lots, but I did until one year ago. I'm new into magic and I didn't purchase any DVD or trick yet, I learned everything from friends or bad youtube tuts, but at the moment I'm thinking of it...
If I bought the DVD's, I would feel much better...but then I'm not able to buy many tricks, they're so expensive =/

I think at least I will buy them if nobody can tell me how the tricks work

- muhazz

 

[drorange]

i used to be part of a forum that exposed stuff but then they started exposing t11 stuff which i thought was wrong so i told t11 and got banned from their forum

 

[Joe Jesse]

i used to be part of a forum that exposed stuff but then they started exposing t11 stuff which i thought was wrong so i told t11 and got banned from their forum

I am not trying to start a fire but what about Digital Dissolve? There has been alot of controversy about this new (some say old) effect.

Is it okay to publish others material if YOU (the consumer) say it is okay? Is it because you feel an affiliation with said site? (T11)

 

[Sleight_of_Hand]

When I first started magic, I was skeptical about whether this would be a long term hobby (10 years min) or short term ( like YUGIOH LOL) so I downloaded most of the Ellusionist videos... Most of which I do not use because they are utterly bad or useless... ( like most E material eg. the coin through glass?) Once i found out this was a decent hobby (4 months in) I started to actually buy stuff...

One more thing. My friend told me he had 900 magic dvds, tutorials, books and all others which he managed to download via p2p...this made up 100 gigs on his computer. This included everything from crash course to Trilogy and even Witness... which hasnt been out for over 3 days....
He told me he does this because the prices at Australia for magic gear is so bad its like the shop is stealing money....

www.taylorsmagicshop.com

is an example of this..

they sell bikes (red or blue back riders) for 10$ Au... I think that is around 9 $ US each... that is a rip off... from that you can see why he did this downloading...

ps. DD(digital dissolve) in AU = 70$ ...


All i wanted from this thread was some courage to speak up..... Is it that hard?

 

[MattTarrant]

I will be honest,

Yes I have downloaded some magic DVDs.

But in saying that, I have also purchased a hell of a lot of Magic DVDs, Gimmicks etc.

When I first got into magic, which was less than a year ago I wasnt sure as said above, if it was a long term thing. So I wanted to see a few DVD's, and I came across a P2P site where I could do this.

But since then, I have spent over 2k on Magic, and intend to spend a lot more. If I use the DVD, I will buy it, if I download it and it is terrible, I get rid of it.

And as said above, the prices for magic here are crazily stupid. And there isnt really an actual Magic shop in my entire state. So it can be a bit hard!

 

[SilentScReaM]

In China,only a few people know the word "copyright"

I didn't buy any DVDs.when I new to magic,I bought 5 CDs with copied computer format from a guy and as you know,there are pirates everywhere in China.Just yesterday I saw a guy sell the trilogy for 80rmb(about 10 dollars) to another kid.

A year ago,I only knew double lift,pass and elmsley count,and a few color changes,but now I can do clipshift,the color change in Dan and Dave t11 video,cascade control,push off second deal and so on.

In a circle that no one feels guilty about pirating,it's hard to feel guilty.But as I got here,the Dan and Dave forum,the magiccafe, I know I did these things wrong.I even cant communicate with other guys here at the beginning since the environment around me are lot of kids just use magic to show off and getting chicks and even call the "Sybil"as "four packets cut".They roughly watched every DVDs try to know every secret and if it's hard they never think of prictising it.THEY TOTALLY TAKE NO RESPECTION TO MAGICIANS.
And if you ask how worse the environment is,I can tell you:you can even find the whole Heckler DVD in www.56.com (a youtube type site,for watching online short video clip in China)
I'm in Beijing.I try to keep the secret about the Dan Dave color change,but now it seems impossible(I just performed this for 5 people a month ago).

Now,I tried to do something and want to buy("a really buy,not buy from pirates") some magic books with my friend.I'm trying to remember every magician I've learned from,every name of the move I've mastered and still in prictising,try to tell every one around me exposing is wrong.It's damn hard,but I will do.

 

[JustinClark]

I have not read any of the replies but Im going to post something real quick. Downloading songs does NOT hurt the artist. It hurts the (crooked ass) record companies. Music artist dont make their money from record sales, they make it from doing shows, royalties, and the occasional ad for some (worthless) product. Now magicians products are typically being made and sold by THEMSELVES or by a magic company of which we know the owners (sometimes personally). So when stealing their products you ARE directly hurting them. They DO make money from the product you are stealing unlike music stars records. Get it?
-Justin

 

[JackOSpadesNik]

You expect people to admit to stealing stuff..? That's like going up to your parents and saying "Hi Mum! Hi Dad! I Stole $30 From Your Wallet!" I'm sure a lot of people do steal magic.

I will admit to learning some tricks less than ethically (Reverse engineering from watching videos, learning from friends) but the amount of magic I perform is minimal because I am a flourisher.

Learning magic from friends isn't less than ethical.

I used to watch Youtube magic when I first started, but not anymore.

 

[Steerpike]

Someone will probably crucify me for this, but I admit to having pirated things in the past. Movies, music, magic. When I was broke, I'd take stuff under the table, but when I have money again, I actually buy the things I pirated and delete the ill-gotten gains from my harddrive.

I don't see it as being any different from borrowing from a friend. I always buy what I download once I have the resources, just as I buy my own copy if I like what I borrow.

 

[Sleight_of_Hand]

In the last few post people keep saying that they actually buy the disk after watching it illegally... why would you do that? I dont understand.

Ethics?

or

Easier to watch on dvd?

Explain..

 

[Steerpike]

A big part of it is because I think the creator deserves my money.