Camera Work within Magic

[MattTarrant]

Hey Guys,

Myself and Cory just had a quick discussion in relation to Camera Work and its not 'common' use within Magic.

In alignment with the thread about being a Purist it would be great to hear everyones opinions on using the Camera to your advantage.

I would like to hear others opinions before I add my own.

As they say 'Debate Away'

Matty.

 

[Deechristopher]

It depends who your audience is, this is why I don't have a problem with Blaine's levitation, etc. It's essentially just a dual reality really.

I know that alot of people are against using camera work to your advantage with magic, and I'm kind of on the fence as I'm not sure it's right using sheer stooging 24/7, but I think that if your audience is the viewers at home you do what every it takes to royally deceive them, you know?

D.

 

[tsarothpaco]

I personally don't like the idea of camera work.

With discussion on being a purist, those duplicates, gaffs etc. can be performed live while in camera it can't be used live. Simple maybe key to great magic but so is being visual.

~PaCo

 

[darosa.justin]

Personally, I think that using 'cameras to your advantage' is fine.

My opinion is based on a David Blaine/Criss Angel type situation- magic on tv for the public to watch.

When a person switches on the TV and D.B./C.A. is on, they're probably going to watch. Why? Because they want to feel amazed and entertained.

They really don't care about the methods when watching- yes, they may want to find out, but most people will just watch magic on TV to (as I said) be amazed/entertained.

So it doesn't really matter HOW you do it...as long as you satisfy the goal of amazing and entertaining the viewers.

Just my .02.

P.S.- movies also use CGIs etc. Yet, nobody has a problem with that? You're essentially doing the same thing- using cameras and editing to show things on a screen that couldn't be done in reality (live).

 

[mattjones]

Personally, I'm going to use camera work as much as I can as long as it looks legit. The only downside to this is that you have to be able to back up your mad editing skills with just as mad skills in doing live magic...

 

[OwnerM]

Purists do use camera work to their advatage too. Albeit in a small way: Putting the camera at the exact proper angle so the move is even more invisible.

To me, whatever works on camera to amaze and delight an audience. Personally, I won't use stooges or camera edits, but if a magician does, well, that's her or his style. Kinda like using gaffs, imho.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Being a filmmaker I think we should use it to as much as an advantage as possible. We use gimmicks so why can't the camera simply be another gimmick to achieve a certain effect?

I'll come back tomorrow and write more, I'm simply way too exhausted for this at the moment.

Mitch

 

[DLeerium]

Lol Matt Im guessing this has somewhat something to do with my elevator at the end of my contest vid. If not ill just participate in this discussion anyways.

I agree when posting videos, either online or on TV. The general idea of misdirection is eliminated because a viewer can simply rewind the video and re-watch.

I believe that a taking advantage of a camera is another way of misdirection for the online community, and although I am a purist myself, I also believe that 'the end result will justify any means to get there', so when a camera is used, do whatever you can to add misdirection.

There is a limit however. The limit I believe is when the camera tricks overshadow the magic of the video, rather than add misdirection.
For example, I would consider it unethical for someone to pay a stooge to give false reactions and record that on camera, saying that was a genuine reaction. I would consider it acceptable however, eg in David Blaine when he does the levitation. He uses camera tricks to exaggerate the impact rather that to produce an impact.

Probably some people may disagree with me, but the balance between camera tricks and magic is different for everyone. Its just up to the individual watching to judge accordingly.

-DL

 

[OwnerM]

Lol Matt Im guessing this has somewhat something to do with my elevator at the end of my contest vid. If not ill just participate in this discussion anyways.

I agree when posting videos, either online or on TV. The general idea of misdirection is eliminated because a viewer can simply rewind the video and re-watch.

I believe that a taking advantage of a camera is another way of misdirection for the online community, and although I am a purist myself, I also believe that 'the end result will justify any means to get there', so when a camera is used, do whatever you can to add misdirection.

There is a limit however. The limit I believe is when the camera tricks overshadow the magic of the video, rather than add misdirection.
For example, I would consider it unethical for someone to pay a stooge to give false reactions and record that on camera, saying that was a genuine reaction. I would consider it acceptable however, eg in David Blaine when he does the levitation. He uses camera tricks to exaggerate the impact rather that to produce an impact.

Probably some people may disagree with me, but the balance between camera tricks and magic is different for everyone. Its just up to the individual watching to judge accordingly.

-DL

Excellent point and very well put!

 

[Jakeh]

Once again, my love for my darling Matt makes me wholeheartedly agree with each and every one of his statements.

That, and the fact that I all ready wholeheartedly agreed on this particular subject to begin with.

Magic on TV, YouTube and wherever else is completely different to magic that's performed for a live audience. Cutting away, smart camera palcement - stuff like that is crucial to make the people at home feel entertained. You can't misdirect a camera, can you?

So with going what Mitchell said, you need to use the camera to your advantage. Use it like you use a double backer and the like.

 

[travis_barker1975]

i agree with DL 150% i think personally that the use of a camera to ditch something that you cannot do in real perfomance is NOT the way to go.....but if you are using your camera to misdirect (because we all know you cannot misdirect on a stationary camera on your hands) then it is completely fine......still personally i try to avoid using the camera to make my magic look good

 

[Dylan P.]

Well, here is the thing. there is camera tricks, then there is camera editing. I'll give a description on each then state my views.

Camera Trick: This one means that possibly the camera moves away from the magicicians hands or switches over to another camera. This doesn't make the trick fake but just makes it harder for people at home to pick up the secret. A camera trick could also be if the screen flashes from black and white to normal very quickly to cover a move.

I believe that using tricks like that is fine. Afterall you are supposed to deliver to the people at home. And if the camera didn't leave the hands of the magician for a moment the spectators at home could easily see the secret. I think that this sort of thing is Okay.


Camera Editing: This is what Criss Angel does VERY often. On his motercycle dissapearance as well as other large stunts he films a few different clips. Say one where he rides to the top of the hill. Then another where he does the jump. Then one more where they only send an empty motorcycle through the entire thing. Once it is finished they cut these clips and stick them together to make them look like one shot. However, they always leave out specific details that lead to the revelation of the editing.

This is NOT okay with me. As a matter of fact this is the one and only reason I have zero respect for Criss. He may know some really cool card tricks and stuff but he rarely shows them. instead he slips into the world of computers and editing. I feel that this isn't delivering anything to your audiance, it is simply CHEATING your audiance.

Those are my veiws. Moderators: If that is exposure then please edit this.

Dylan P.

 

[MattTarrant]

Lol Matt Im guessing this has somewhat something to do with my elevator at the end of my contest vid. If not ill just participate in this discussion anyways.

-DL

Not at all man, infact it came up after discussions about Magic is Dead.

I believe cameras can be used to enhance the effect, but should not be used to make the effect.

For example, having the camera use a focus point or a specific angle is much better than infact cutting footage to create an effect.

Ya digg?

lol

 

[DLeerium]

Not at all man, infact it came up after discussions about Magic is Dead.

I believe cameras can be used to enhance the effect, but should not be used to make the effect.

For example, having the camera use a focus point or a specific angle is much better than infact cutting footage to create an effect.

Ya digg?

lol

Thanks for the clarification man

 

[Jakeh]

Moderators: If that is exposure then please edit this.

Assumptions can't really be exposure.