Common Methods That Don't Really Work

[Josh Burch]

So, there are a handful of methods out there that are very popular but I could never get to work.

I have a hard time believing that they would ever really fool anyone in a live performance.

My least favorite method of all time is the PATEO force. Every time I perform it the spectator immediately can repeat the sequence. I don't believe it to be very fooling.

I have other's but I'd like to ask all of you, what is your least favorite method?

 

[RealityOne]

With the PATEO force you need a justification. There is a routine in Magic and Meaning that uses tarot cards and has a presentation based on the black plague. Two people get sick, one dies. I do a routine based off a suggestion in that book. I have cards the the NFL logo on the back and the teams on the front. The teams are all of the teams in the playoffs. We each take turns picking two teams that play each other and then eliminating the one that loses.

 

[Josh Burch]

I have cards the the NFL logo on the back and the teams on the front. The teams are all of the teams in the playoffs. We each take turns picking two teams that play each other and then eliminating the one that loses.

I do a routine that pits super heroes against each other and uses the PATEO force. My justification is that the best way to finish a show would be huge cage match with the most mighty heroes of all time. I introduced this into my act a couple years ago. It was very entertaining.

I usually make it a point after shows to talk to my audience. After about 10 performances of the effect I came to recognize a pattern. Most of the show was strong but the super hero effect was transparent. They would say things like, "The show was great but I think I figured you out." When I asked why they thought that they would mention the super hero trick and basically outline the method. This happened repeatedly.

In an audience of 12 year olds, obviously lacking the social skills of an older audience, they hollard out the solution before I even revealed my prediction. Maybe not the exact solution but they had the general idea in mind.

The worst was for a family show at a cafe. I performed my show and mingled with the audience after while they finished their food. At one table there was a family that called me over. Using utensils, salt shakers and sugar packets they performed the trick for me. Blow for blow. When I asked how they figured it out they responded by saying that it was just logic.

I decided to retire the routine after this. It was a tough routine to drop, it was very funny and I had a bunch of good lines. I had been performing it for a period of months and it's scale worked. It just never proved to be deceptive enough.

My feeling is that the effect didn't have enough distance from the method. When a lay audience imagines a possible solution for a routine like this my hunch is that they either think of probability or logic. Unfortunately, the method is just a logic puzzle and I can't seem to divorce the effect from the method. There aren't enough reasons to think that it is not a logic puzzle and I'm not sure how to separate it in the minds of my spectators.

 

[RealityOne]

Interesting. Assuming you were using superhero figures that were in full view the whole time, I think your problem is that they saw who the choice was between. Using the football cards (one side has the NFL logo and the other side has team), they don't see which teams are facing each other (only the backs of the cards with the logo) -- and only turn over the card to see the team that is eliminated. Had you put the figures under cups and had a spectator mix them up behind your back, the method would be better disguised.

 

[RealityOne]

I think one that should NOT EVER work, but always does is the Piano Trick. I do Steinmeyer's Apples and Oranges and am amazed that it completely befuddles people.

 

[DavidL11229]

I worked in a magic shop for several years and frequently used the criss-cross in demos. I can't decide which category it falls into. It always seemed to work surprisingly well, but I always thought that perhaps if people think back over what happened afterward they could piece it together. A bit of time misdirection was deceptive enough in the short term, but I was always suspicious that if they thought back about what happened that they should be able to figure it out. My experience led me to believe it just works far better than I think it should, but I still wonder...

 

[Josh Burch]

Interesting. Assuming you were using superhero figures that were in full view the whole time, I think your problem is that they saw who the choice was between. Using the football cards (one side has the NFL logo and the other side has team), they don't see which teams are facing each other (only the backs of the cards with the logo) -- and only turn over the card to see the team that is eliminated. Had you put the figures under cups and had a spectator mix them up behind your back, the method would be better disguised.

The super heroes are not in view the whole time but they are in marked envelopes, and I can see that was my problem. The question in the spectators mind was "How did he get me to pick the one he wanted me to?" If I can convince them that I don't know which envelope holds which hero the question shifts. "How could he predict which envelope we would chose?"

I'll have to try it out!

 

[obrienmagic]

Honestly.... for me at least, the "Pass." I know I am going to hear people say "but that is like a classic technique and a basic principle of magic!!!!!" True! However for me, I would bee more comfortable just controlling the card while i talk. If I ever do use the pass, it is never while people are looking at my hands. I see a lot of people do the pass and it looks like something happened.

I would rather just do a top change or undercut while I am talking.... No one ever assumes much because when I do it, nothing technically is happening yet anyways.... Then oce the move is done I draw heat to the cards and can slowly place it in the middle because the move is already done!

 

[Josh Burch]

Honestly.... for me at least, the "Pass." I know I am going to hear people say "but that is like a classic technique and a basic principle of magic!!!!!" True! However for me, I would bee more comfortable just controlling the card while i talk. If I ever do use the pass, it is never while people are looking at my hands. I see a lot of people do the pass and it looks like something happened.

I would rather just do a top change or undercut while I am talking.... No one ever assumes much because when I do it, nothing technically is happening yet anyways.... Then oce the move is done I draw heat to the cards and can slowly place it in the middle because the move is already done!

Yeah, the pass is crazy problematic. There are versions I don't mind but the classic pass is not great in my opinion. The effect is supposed to be that the magician doesn't do anything and the order of the cards are changed. Unfortunately, the magician has to do something to make it work. The only way that I have ever been fooled by a pass is by being misdirected, doesn't that completely ruin the effect?

 

[Josh Burch]

Another one for me that always works on camera but never in real life is flap cards. It is very rare when a flap card is made in such a way that it completely hides the secret for a lay audience.