So I wanted to see if this was an isolated incident. After dinner the other night with my family, my dad suggested I do some tricks for the manager's kid who was wandering around. I did, and he seemed to really enjoy it. And they were nice enough to give us some free dessert free of charge (we tipped a little extra to compensate). But the weird part was after. The father came out and gave a broken English speech (we were at a Moroccon SP? diner, and I think he was Muslim) about how this is kind of like drugs and it takes over your life and it can only give "fake" happiness. I happen to disagree with this guy on all of his argument that he proceeded to give us for 10 minutes which didn't really make a lot of sense, which I wont go into, but the fact is I think it may have been a little offensive to his culture maybe? So has anyone else ever ran into anything like that? Or was this guy just kinda crazy.
Ever offended anyone by just magic?
- Thread starter fighter486
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I remember seeing an episode of David BlaineL Street Magic where David Blaine was traveling to a bunch of different places around the world. One of these places he went to everyone was afraid to let him do any trick to them. I think David said it was because of their culture or relgion or something like that. I think he also said that they thought it was evial or something like that. So yeah it could have been because of his culture or religion.
In away, the father is right, what we do is take people out of reality and believe in the impossible. Sure, it is fake, but its not a bad fake, its not like we are out there like, "Yo, I need you to watch my magic, I am going to go crazy... WATCHH!!".
It is fake happiness, but I never heard of any law thats says about being taken out of everyday life.
It is fake happiness, but I never heard of any law thats says about being taken out of everyday life.
I also remember that, the local people thought he was performing "black magic" - something that I believe is connected with voodoo rituals.
As for the topic on hand, I've never personally got caught up in a dilemma such as this (touch wood). However, if I did and my spectator was explaining that our art is like a "drug", I would totally agree to that philosophy – I couldn’t say that is not true. For me, card magic is like a drug – it’s something I do day-in and day-out without question.
The difference here though, is that even if this was a "drug", it is a drug for the right reasons. Unlike heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. (alongside the many other common drugs around today) we use this for other people's pleasure. Of course, that does not mean we do not get any as performers, as that would be untrue - but the fact of the matter is; I do not believe anyone should question our art form to such a degree. I could understand if religion played a role in their beliefs, but in other circumstances then I do not see any problems and I strictly feel it is out of line otherwise.
We spend years and years perfecting that which we enjoy doing and performing to others, and unless someone can give a valid reason for disregarding the “magic” we perform, I do not see why they should be given the opportunity to share such an experience (and a beautiful experience it is); regardless of their culture.
Jordan
It probably was a religious or culture thing, they may have thought he was performing real magic, which in most cultures is an evil deed. You can't call them out for being weird or being out of line because that is what they grew up believing. I know I may be inclined to question something I believe to be evil and don't understand, I think we all would. This is why its hard to "share the experience" with everyone "regardless of their culture." If they believe its evil or what not, then you are forcing it down their throats and it isn't the same experience we strive for. This is unfortunate but it happens.
-Cyrus
Thanks for everyone's comments. I of course would never do magic for someone if I knew that it would offend them, but honestly that doesn't cross my mind in America when doing tricks, around the world maybe.
As for the drug comment, I think he meant that it will take over your life like a drug and make you miss the really important things in life. I think that was a huge overstatement. Sure this and drugs may be both time consuming, but they are really just worlds apart. One bring happiness to others, while one does not , and I know plenty of people who are magicians and have other main stream jobs ( some really huge jobs), while most heavy drug addicts I know, which aren't many, don't. I think there is a huge line between smaller enjoyments and "life enjoyment" that he was mixing up. So that statement kind of offended me, but I never got mad, I was doing my best to just converse with him politely.
He also said a lot of other things, something about morals and money and God, but like I said, it was broken English, and pretty hard to follow, so my family and I spent the car ride home trying to decipher exactly what his main point was.
Hope everyone on spring break is enjoying!
As for the drug comment, I think he meant that it will take over your life like a drug and make you miss the really important things in life. I think that was a huge overstatement. Sure this and drugs may be both time consuming, but they are really just worlds apart. One bring happiness to others, while one does not , and I know plenty of people who are magicians and have other main stream jobs ( some really huge jobs), while most heavy drug addicts I know, which aren't many, don't. I think there is a huge line between smaller enjoyments and "life enjoyment" that he was mixing up. So that statement kind of offended me, but I never got mad, I was doing my best to just converse with him politely.
He also said a lot of other things, something about morals and money and God, but like I said, it was broken English, and pretty hard to follow, so my family and I spent the car ride home trying to decipher exactly what his main point was.
Hope everyone on spring break is enjoying!
I have had a similar situation. I worked at a Max and Ermas restaurant, and I had a father become so creeped out at what I did, that he made his family leave the restaurant. I performed Stigmata, and the father freaked out! He called me a messenger of Satan, and he swore he would never take his family back to an establishment that supports Satan and/or his followers.
I wasn't sure what to do. I just stood there stunned! I've had people call me scary, freaky, weird, and crazy, but Satan and a Satan worshiper? That was a new one for me.
I wasn't sure what to do. I just stood there stunned! I've had people call me scary, freaky, weird, and crazy, but Satan and a Satan worshiper? That was a new one for me.
black magic isnt voodoo. I Know you didnt say it was. But what the people there believe is that magic should be used for a purpose..just going around and doing "cool" things with it is abusive and evil in their eyes. to them the magic isnt for entertainment its serves a very special importance. They probably saw it as disrespectful.
And to answer the original question, yes I used to attend a christian middle school where I once levitated and was forbidden by everyone there (staff, teachers, admins.,pastor) to ever do it again(gotta love the balducci before it got overexposed) I tried to explain, but I realized i couldnt have them understand and keep the secret a secret. It sucked, they thought it as bad-even if it was just a trick. But i stood up for it because its what i believe in...and if someone attacks you saying what you are doing is wrong-then you need to stand up for all of us and try to educate them that hey, its only a trick. If they still refuse to stop bickering, then hey its their lose...im sure your magic is great.
maybe our tough spectators problems were the same fighter- at the school, they said that Satan would trick me into getting involved with this stuff, and then he would get me to try and move on into the real black magick stuff. Maybe thats where the drug/Devil reference comes from.
magic=fake happiness....then hey how about we never let comedians tell jokes again..better yet lets just never smile. Thats ridiculous...stand up for your craft!
Please understand everyone Im not downing the practice or religion of Wicca, witchcraft, or any other kind of Magick. I dont mean to offend anyone. And no hate messages please, im already very educated about Wicca...i kno it has nothing to to with the Christian devil. I never said it did.
And to answer the original question, yes I used to attend a christian middle school where I once levitated and was forbidden by everyone there (staff, teachers, admins.,pastor) to ever do it again(gotta love the balducci before it got overexposed) I tried to explain, but I realized i couldnt have them understand and keep the secret a secret. It sucked, they thought it as bad-even if it was just a trick. But i stood up for it because its what i believe in...and if someone attacks you saying what you are doing is wrong-then you need to stand up for all of us and try to educate them that hey, its only a trick. If they still refuse to stop bickering, then hey its their lose...im sure your magic is great.
maybe our tough spectators problems were the same fighter- at the school, they said that Satan would trick me into getting involved with this stuff, and then he would get me to try and move on into the real black magick stuff. Maybe thats where the drug/Devil reference comes from.
magic=fake happiness....then hey how about we never let comedians tell jokes again..better yet lets just never smile. Thats ridiculous...stand up for your craft!
Please understand everyone Im not downing the practice or religion of Wicca, witchcraft, or any other kind of Magick. I dont mean to offend anyone. And no hate messages please, im already very educated about Wicca...i kno it has nothing to to with the Christian devil. I never said it did.
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It was the David Blaine Magic Man Special...when he was in Haiti.
And I'm sure i've po'ed a couple a guys when performing at parties....
As a drug addiction and false happiness, he was probably referring to a cultural belief that magic will consume your soul and destroy you and you will become hopelessly addicted. I think you guys are trying to analyze that part way to carefully.
How would you see dark magic as a drug addiction and false happiness if it WASN'T just a trick to you? If you believed it was real and it was evil. I think that sometimes we forget what the other person sees and only think about what we see. As far as addiction from our point of view, its a healthy addiction and brings us lots of happiness. BUT what does it look like from the point of view of somebody who thinks you are performing an evil art.
For some of you older guys, 18 and up. You may want to check out the classic story "Doctor Faustus." The story of an intelligent man who sells his soul to the devil in return for greater magic powers, these powers consume him and bring him false happiness.
-Cyrus
How would you see dark magic as a drug addiction and false happiness if it WASN'T just a trick to you? If you believed it was real and it was evil. I think that sometimes we forget what the other person sees and only think about what we see. As far as addiction from our point of view, its a healthy addiction and brings us lots of happiness. BUT what does it look like from the point of view of somebody who thinks you are performing an evil art.
For some of you older guys, 18 and up. You may want to check out the classic story "Doctor Faustus." The story of an intelligent man who sells his soul to the devil in return for greater magic powers, these powers consume him and bring him false happiness.
-Cyrus
i have to disagree...magic tricks consuming your soul??? I just dont see it...even from the false happiness point of view. I mean they are card tricks, everyone knows of their existence. Most people know how to perform one as well. I dont think he would rant for 10 minutes in broken english (a sign of his anger) over a card trick. I mean he was performing for a kid so i dont see him doing anything spooky or haunted like....just simple stuff.
I haven't anything like that before though I do get people who hate magic because they don't believe in it....... which is dumb because of course magic isn't real, it's a TRICK. So people like that are the only ones I bump into.
the first time I performed Stigmata, the lady I performed for said I shouldn't be doing things that are "Godlike"... she said I was playing with fire.
A magicians job is to blur the lines of reality for the spectator (but behind everything there is usually just a simple method/technique) so technically it is "fake happiness" but almost everyone (and i think this may be false in your case) knows that its not real magic, but rather they rejoice in not being able to contemplate the method.
One time, the heckler in my class, kept trying to ruin my tricks. After I was done performing I asked him why he was being such an ***hole, and he said "because your not doing real magic, there's a trick behind it all" So i said "my objective is not to make you believe that i am a god or that i have magical powers, Its to create mystery because one of mans biggest ambitions is to be deceived, and with humans being so intuitive in nature magic is one of the only ways to do that."
When I went to Vegas and saw all of the magic shows, I didn't say wow, he can do real magic, I, probably like almost everyone else in the theatre, said "how does he do that" and people say that to me all the time when I perform, because they know its not real, but somehow you just fooled them.
So this guy perhaps doesn't like being fooled, or maybe its part of his culture, or maybe he just has a problem with people making a living by so called "deceiving" when most of the top magicians say that they don't have magic powers
One time, the heckler in my class, kept trying to ruin my tricks. After I was done performing I asked him why he was being such an ***hole, and he said "because your not doing real magic, there's a trick behind it all" So i said "my objective is not to make you believe that i am a god or that i have magical powers, Its to create mystery because one of mans biggest ambitions is to be deceived, and with humans being so intuitive in nature magic is one of the only ways to do that."
When I went to Vegas and saw all of the magic shows, I didn't say wow, he can do real magic, I, probably like almost everyone else in the theatre, said "how does he do that" and people say that to me all the time when I perform, because they know its not real, but somehow you just fooled them.
So this guy perhaps doesn't like being fooled, or maybe its part of his culture, or maybe he just has a problem with people making a living by so called "deceiving" when most of the top magicians say that they don't have magic powers
Well we are entertainers. Yes there are some fanatic people out there. i remember showing sigmata to my mom and she said " your not using any black magic are you". I laughed and continued showing some more tricks. Although I completely agree with what Jordan said. This is a drug but a good one. Magic has changed my life forever. Oh and I remember the story of stigmata. Wayne said that he showed this trick in his high school or something and the school send a priest to his house.
I don't think you understood what I said. I said look at it from the spectator's point of view not your own. If the spectator believes that all magic is black evil magic, then what I said is completely relevant. Sometimes even the simplest trick can seem REAL with the correct performance, EVEN if the spectators know that fake magic exists. The fact that he was speaking in broken English alone says that he may not be educated, so of course he may not realize that magic is fake.
I never said that magic consumes your soul, if that is the case, my soul has been long gone and I'm doomed for eternity and I enjoy it.
-Cyrus
Well, I don't believe there is such a thing as fake happiness. You're either happy, or not. Although, I understand what you're saying. Magic takes them out of their everyday life and amazes them, takes them out of reality, which makes them happy. Sorry, just clarifying that. I'm weird like that.
Anyway, if the guy really was Muslim, here's something interesting I found. It's a book for Muslims entitled Sword Against Black Magic & Evil Magicians. And here's a description of the book:
"A much detailed book on the explanation of the concept of sorcery, its effects and the legitimate methods for its treatment, and since the methods of treatment consist of verses from the Quran and invocations which must only be recited in Arabic." - from www.islamguide.dk
So, that could have something to do with it. Magic is considered evil in the Islamic religion, just like many other things. Anyway, that's all I have to say. (lol) Peace!
Tyler
just to clarify, this guy wasn't angry. As I said in the first post he was actually nice enough to give us free chocolate mouse which was really good too. His broken English wasn't because he was angry, just because he was probably trying to express some idea that he didn't know the right words for haha. that's all.
I think it's a little rude what he did, trying to explain his dogma to me, but I know he just was doing something he thought would be a good dead, so I can't be too mad at him
I think it's a little rude what he did, trying to explain his dogma to me, but I know he just was doing something he thought would be a good dead, so I can't be too mad at him