For the Flourishman, we are ''CUTCLONES''...

[sktallys]

Hey guys THE FLOURISHMAN posted this on a thread on SH at the World Tourney.. I'm too lazy to post the link..

Is The Flourishman laughing at us or what?
did u get offend reading that?
lets discuss


''Damn! Amazing vids! I am always proud to compare our guys vids to the vids on other sites! Imagine Madonna, Krabshack, Molecule, Kryptonite and Sybil Takes a Fist performed by any of a hundred cutclones, and then you watch Loom's vid! And Loom had the sweet display cuts thrown in for good measure. Look at Dig. Artist's perfect pirouette armspread and Max's nonchalant aerials. And all the routines have amplitude to spare. Really some of the best material I have seen. Loom, Max and Digital Artist make the so-called Virtuosos look prosaic. Bravo!''

please trashmanf I know u are gonna defend him, but try to see the bad points

peace boys and girls

 

[Aris.SA]

I found the link, http://p210.ezboard.com/ROUND-7-VIDEOS-HERE/fsuperhandzfrm127.showMessage?topicID=87.topic

let me analyze it and the I post =)

 

[Farrell]

It's bull**** and it's been happening for long enough, everyone knows the story and no-one cares.

 

[copperfield 14]

Handlordz has always been complaining about Dan and Dave material. THey have no speed, not even close to the Virts, and people do Jerry's moves better than he does.

 

[UnholyGodn]

I can agree that many people just clone everyone elses moves, but to lump Virtuoso with the rest just shows how ignorant his statements are. Not to mention the most complicated cut I have ever seen the or De'vo pull off is thier "impossible stack" or the Cradle to Grave routine, though I don't really watch their stuff so I'm sure there are others, but even then those cuts were hardly original, basically sybil variations. If everyone did armspreads, then everyone would just be armspread clones, this debate is totally pointless.

I don't see how he can complain about anyone lacking style or originality when all of the HL and associated websites look like a 3 year old and geocitites page builder threw them together. The main reason I migrated to Dan and Dave was because I couldn't stand being blinded by the SH forums everytime I tried to read something. Both sides have thier arguments, neither ever wins, because it's a matter of preferance more than anything and last time I checked, there was still some free will left in the world.

 

[tazer]

honestly, this kind of stuff is annoying
they keep putting up a bunch of bs, after we made peace

they can think there better, we can think were better
but honestly, it shouldnt matter


also, i think our "cutclones" busting out sybils faster than he can say the words "not fair" beats his same old armspreads

and if there gonna try that public entertainment appeal, i say we find how many people are getting paid for "XCM" and than find out the amount for magic

i feel like we might be getting somewhere here....

 

[alex65535]

Handlordz has always been complaining about Dan and Dave material. THey have no speed, not even close to the Virts, and people do Jerry's moves better than he does.

Speed isn't always a good thing. Jerry's style is more artful and full of displays and variety. Many people do just fast cuts and those are okay too. It's just a matter of taste. The stuff that Jerry does looks simple, but anyone who has the encyclopedia knows that his stuff is so much harder. And I think his style is more easily appreciated by laymen than the fast stuff is. Speed is only really appreciated by other flourishers. I'm not saying either style is better, but they're just different. The big advantage to Jerry's style is that there's alot more variety.

But he really shouldn't be insulting other artists by name.

 

[copperfield 14]

Speed isn't always a good thing. Jerry's style is more artful and full of displays and variety. Many people do just fast cuts and those are okay too. It's just a matter of taste. The stuff that Jerry does looks simple, but anyone who has the encyclopedia knows that his stuff is so much harder. And I think his style is more easily appreciated by laymen than the fast stuff is. Speed is only really appreciated by other flourishers. I'm not saying either style is better, but they're just different. The big advantage to Jerry's style is that there's alot more variety.

But he really shouldn't be insulting other artists by name.

Very true. Jerry is one of my favorite flourishers, I just got pissed when he choose the bucks and the virts names. Those two have worked incredibly hard to create and saying that a few forum members( which are very talented) who do armspreads and fans are better than they are.

 

[Aris.SA]

hey I wanna see what rich replys

 

[EugeneSoh]

i agree its sort of odd, but as a flourisher, as you get better and learn more, you can start making your own material that only you know and other people with that exp. or higher may be able to figure out.

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Why is it all about being original?

It's about EXPANDING YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS ART.

Too many people want to focus on two-handed sybil based cut. That's fine when your a hobbyist, but realize, Jerry and the rest of HL focus on performing for the eyes of the laymen. Doing 5 minutes of nothing but sybil based two handed cuts and throwing in a carnahan fan and a under pressure is not exactly variety and is expected to lose the attention especially when the stuff is being done at a speed they can't comprehend or bother to comprehend. "Whoa he's really fast with those cards." That's all it would really accomplish with laymen. Laymen DO NOT have trained eyes. They've never seen this kind of stuff before, so what's the point of a 10 packet sybil cut vs a 11 packet sybil cut when they can't even tell the difference.

Saying that HL only does armspreads and fans? Have you seen a great deal of fans and armspreads? Have you seen the numerous armspreads and fans Jerry's put out there? The point is why you see so many of these armspreads and fans is that they're DIFFERENT and laymen can tell the difference. I dare someone say a upright armspread looks the same as a no turnover down catch.

Speed shouldn't be the focus, originality shouldn't be the focus. Do they laymen care if your original, no they don't when you look at it. They only care if your entertaining or not. They don't care if you can do this cut 2.7 seconds faster than the Bucks or that you came up with this move by meditating for 7 days straight and been proven to be original. EXPAND YOUR ABILITY spending too much time on fans? Learn some one-handed and two-handed cuts. You can do the one hand riffle shuffle in your left hand, good, now try it with your right hand. You can juggle 3 balls? Great try them with playing cards. You spin a basketball one the tip of your finger? Terrific, try it with a playing card.

What Jerry fears the most is that people are getting hung up on montages of moves. Dan and Dave and Virts put out a good amount of those kind gritty, cinematic, flashy movie clips up on the net. Which look cool, but really take away what you would show a laymen in real life, which is a ROUTINE of flourishes without your slow motion and lens flashes. Which is why the tournament footage is the best material to be put out by young performers by Jerry's account.

So..... you wanna be original? Be an original PERFORMER. Look at the countless magicians out there who have all of their material from other people. What did they do? They presented it differently, they got their own lines, created their OWN persona to perform as. I highly doubt some idiot laymen going to cry out, "OH MY GOD YOUR NOT ORIGINAL!" during a Jeff Mcbride act.

 

[Sean_Raf]

I highly doubt some idiot laymen going to cry out, "OH MY GOD YOUR NOT ORIGINAL!" during a Jeff Mcbride act.

That would be funny though...

"You're not original McBride!!!"

*McBride stops, smiles at the audience*

*SCHZMOF*

~News Headline~
An audience member/heckler at a Jeff McBride show was declared dead at the scene. The man died when McBride shot a card off the floor, which then went on to bounce off the heads off of all audience members before finally plunging itself into said heckler's brain.

Serves him right too.



- Sean

 

[copperfield 14]

Why is it all about being original?

It's about EXPANDING YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THIS ART.

Too many people want to focus on two-handed sybil based cut. That's fine when your a hobbyist, but realize, Jerry and the rest of HL focus on performing for the eyes of the laymen. Doing 5 minutes of nothing but sybil based two handed cuts and throwing in a carnahan fan and a under pressure is not exactly variety and is expected to lose the attention especially when the stuff is being done at a speed they can't comprehend or bother to comprehend. "Whoa he's really fast with those cards." That's all it would really accomplish with laymen. Laymen DO NOT have trained eyes. They've never seen this kind of stuff before, so what's the point of a 10 packet sybil cut vs a 11 packet sybil cut when they can't even tell the difference.

Saying that HL only does armspreads and fans? Have you seen a great deal of fans and armspreads? Have you seen the numerous armspreads and fans Jerry's put out there? The point is why you see so many of these armspreads and fans is that they're DIFFERENT and laymen can tell the difference. I dare someone say a upright armspread looks the same as a no turnover down catch.

Speed shouldn't be the focus, originality shouldn't be the focus. Do they laymen care if your original, no they don't when you look at it. They only care if your entertaining or not. They don't care if you can do this cut 2.7 seconds faster than the Bucks or that you came up with this move by meditating for 7 days straight and been proven to be original. EXPAND YOUR ABILITY spending too much time on fans? Learn some one-handed and two-handed cuts. You can do the one hand riffle shuffle in your left hand, good, now try it with your right hand. You can juggle 3 balls? Great try them with playing cards. You spin a basketball one the tip of your finger? Terrific, try it with a playing card.

What Jerry fears the most is that people are getting hung up on montages of moves. Dan and Dave and Virts put out a good amount of those kind gritty, cinematic, flashy movie clips up on the net. Which look cool, but really take away what you would show a laymen in real life, which is a ROUTINE of flourishes without your slow motion and lens flashes. Which is why the tournament footage is the best material to be put out by young performers by Jerry's account.

So..... you wanna be original? Be an original PERFORMER. Look at the countless magicians out there who have all of their material from other people. What did they do? They presented it differently, they got their own lines, created their OWN persona to perform as. I highly doubt some idiot laymen going to cry out, "OH MY GOD YOUR NOT ORIGINAL!" during a Jeff Mcbride act.

Nicely said. Although laymen don't care about flourishing they perfer magic. Still can't believe devo wants to perform at birthday parties. Imagine himstanding doing fans and armspreads in a 8 year olds party.

 

[Aris.SA]

Nicely said. Although laymen don't care about flourishing they perfer magic. Still can't believe devo wants to perform at birthday parties. Imagine himstanding doing fans and armspreads in a 8 year olds party.

thats really true man hahahaahahaah u made my day, with the thing about devo and the 8 years olds xD

 

[Daren]

I hope Jerry did watch "Virtuoso" before he said something like that.

-Daren, The Virts

P.S. I shouldn't have reacted the way I did, hopefully, I managed to reverse the damage before it was too late. As for those of you who didnt see my kinda long rant. Glad you didnt.

 

[Kev H]

You know you're important in the card community when Superhandz mentions you by name...

-Kev, The Virts

 

[Andrei]

UEZ,

No offense dude, I'm getting sick and tired of people like you coming to other people's forums and offending them. You don't ever see anyone from other forums bash what you do, why do you feel you need to do it to other people? If you don't have something nice to say, then don't say it.

You're so busy to criticize other people that it hurts you to the point of preventing your own progression..not to mention you're just about the most stubborn bigot that I've ever come across. You're so close minded you don't even give YOURSELF a chance to look at things from other people's point of view.

Just in case you haven't noticed, any one of the Virts can pwn any of the SH/HL forum members. Not to mention Dan and Dave. Don't believe me? Take a look at the tournament videos. The only people I have respect for are Jrunsten, Max, Ciappi, and Fatz, they are artists of my liking and caliber. Compare that to every other talented cardist that frequent forums like Decknique or dananddave. See the difference?

Speed? Don't you dare tell me speed shouldn't be the focus, Jerry's live routines are based on speed. Jerry said so himself that in his stand-up routines he aims to perform an X amount of moves in an X amount of time. That is HIS style, and if that doesn't require speed then I don't know what does. If you were an artist yourself you would know that things done fast are not only much harder to do, they are much more pleasing as well. Why doesn't Jerry do his Deck Twirls slow.......hmmmmmmm..........same reasons Sybils aren't. Dee dee dee.

Now on to the main point of your argument...why should people focus on videos that entertain laymen? This is the internet if you haven't noticed, and it's NOT a place where laymen come to get entertained!! This is a place where artists of high caliber come together to entertain and showcase their skills and ablities!! (even De'vo's website says so!!) Are you a layman? By the sound of it...I'm guessing!! That point alone should shut you up. Quit *****ing about what people do just because they can do it better.

You don't like it? Then go back to where you came from and stay there. Don't come into other people's business and tell them how it should be done when they know how it should be done.

I hope that helped clear your confusion,

-Andrei

 

[Double Decker]

Woahhhhhh Daren.......I honestly don't have an opinion on this subject because I haven't made many performances and I'm still new at this, but seriously....do not talk like that. You have no right to racistly harrass De'vo much less anybody else. Honestly I'm ashamed that one our members would say such a racist rude comment.

 

[VagueTheory]

Woahhhhhh Daren.......I honestly don't have an opinion on this subject because I haven't made many performances and I'm still new at this, but seriously....do not talk like that. You have no right to racistly harrass De'vo much less anybody else. Honestly I'm ashamed that one our members would say such a racist rude comment.

Racist rude comment?? Where?

Anyway, I don't have anything against Jerry expressing his opinion, but to CALL OUT the Bucks and the Virts? That's a huge no no.

I really idolize the Bucks, Virts, and Superhandz. Hell, I started flourishing by watching Xtreme Beginners!

But since that comment, I have lost some respect for Superhandz. That was just...bad?

 

[Double Decker]

Dude. Daren edited it after he saw what I wrote. He took off running.