Good passes/shifts

[Scodischarge]

Hi guys, me again
I've been looking to broaden my repertoire (if you can call it that) of magic techniques a little bit, and as passes and shifts seem to be pretty handy both in card magic and in gambling I was wondering which passes/shifts you use most.
It would be great if you could focus especially on techniques that could be used at the card table.
For the last few weeks I've been practising the classic pass, but as that is a move that requires a ton of practice until it's decent I've been looking for some others too, maybe something that doesn't require such an awkward pose as the classic pass.

Thanks in advance!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

The Classic Pass is the only pass/shift you need.

Also, the classic pass, or two handed shift as it's titled in Expert At The Card Table, does not require an awkward pose if done correctly. It's executed as the hands are coming together naturally.

 

[Scodischarge]

The Classic Pass is the only pass/shift you need.

Also, the classic pass, or two handed shift as it's titled in Expert At The Card Table, does not require an awkward pose if done correctly. It's executed as the hands are coming together naturally.

I agree that, when executed very well, you don't really need anything else. The problem is: It's going to take a few years until I can execute it well enough to be nearly invisible.
Wait! I think I know what you're thinking: Probably something along the lines of "Has this guy learned nothing from our last discussion?!?"
Fact is, I have learned a lot from our previous discussion about misdirection and psychology, and I know that I won't have to execute any move masterfully if misdirection is on my side. However, as you probably know as well by now, I want to be able to do it really well before I perform anyway.

That aside, I think a table pass would be quite neat to have in my repertoir as well. I had a look at the Charlie Miller Table Pass today, and I really like it, it's quite easy and fast, but I think it's too flashy for the card table. Do you know anything in that direction that - preferably - doesn't take years to learn?

Thanks for your opinion!

 

[Scodischarge]

Oh, one other thing: Do you think a one-handed pass/shift (what's the difference anyway?) is worth learning?

 

[Mr_ARPY]

Richard turner has a whole dvd on shifts and passes. I would check it out if I were you.
But the tabled shifts that I personally like to use are the classic “gambler’s hop”, Dai vernon’s Ping pomg shift, and charlie miller’s shift. There’s also on that relies on misdirection that I can’t remember the name of, but was in card college v1.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

I mean, the Hermann Pass is there. Imo, it's a lot easier to do but a lot harder to pull off well when compared to the Classic Pass. Still has that awkward grip but it's not nearly as awkward of a move (somehow).

The only way to get the classic pass down cleanly is to practice it.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

doesn't take years to learn?

"If you don't like to practice, for God's sake find another hobby" - The Professor, paraphrased.

Do you think a one-handed pass/shift (what's the difference anyway?) is worth learning?

Yes. I actually use the one-handed shift.

The difference between the Two Handed Shift (commonly called The Pass) and the One Handed Shift is, as you may guess, one uses two hands and one uses one hand. The one handed shift is more technically challenging in my opinion and will take some work to get down if you're not used to moving your fingers in that way. The day I finally got it, I practice so much I rubbed my fingers raw.

The thing with the Classic Pass is that people get frustrated with it because they want it to be invisible, without realizing that it will never be "invisible" if someone is staring at your hands. You can get it so fast the eyes don't pick up on it, but it's still telegraphed because people see the moment of tension and when you do it super fast it gets loud. The absolute truth is that you don't do the pass when people are looking at your hands if you want to get away with it all the time.

When I wanted to learn the pass I did a few things to get as good as I could at it. I studied The Two Handed Shift section in EATCT almost daily for a few weeks (As recommended by Aaron Fisher), I watched Jason Englad's 1on1 here, and I practiced with specific purposes. I got a "deck trainer" - one of those sets of steel plates that makes your hands stronger, so I could improve my hand strength and speed. I would drill slow executions with the steel plates, then speed up over time. I also practiced with two full decks in the tuck cases, so I could move larger amounts of cards around inside the space my relatively small hands create.

Focus on being silent and executing the pass at the right moment and it will become 'invisible' far sooner than if you're trying to get a 'burnable' pass.

 

[Scodischarge]

Richard turner has a whole dvd on shifts and passes. I would check it out if I were you.
But the tabled shifts that I personally like to use are the classic “gambler’s hop”, Dai vernon’s Ping pomg shift, and charlie miller’s shift. There’s also on that relies on misdirection that I can’t remember the name of, but was in card college v1.

I've seen Mr Turner's DVD, but the price (plus shipping) put me off. I want to buy his DVD "The Cheat" though, there's tons of material on that and also something on passes and shifts.
I haven't found any video on the gambler's hop, so I've got no idea how that looks. Could you link me a video on that? That'd be great.
The Ping Pong shift looks quite good, but the way I see it it's not very angleproof. If somebody sits to your right he'll spot it at once. Also, if you can't greek deal (which I can't) the reveal of the bottom card rules out any bottom dealing.
As I said before, I really like the Charlie Miller table pass. It's really nice to do, easy to learn and if executed well it fools your unknowing spectator. The problem is, if anybody knows this pass he'll spot it immediately, and even somebody doesn't know this particular pass and is just looking for something for something conspicuous he'll definitely see this.

Anyway, thank you for the recommendations!

 

[Scodischarge]

I mean, the Hermann Pass is there. Imo, it's a lot easier to do but a lot harder to pull off well when compared to the Classic Pass. Still has that awkward grip but it's not nearly as awkward of a move (somehow).

The only way to get the classic pass down cleanly is to practice it.

Is there any big difference to the class pass, in execution or performance? Can I do things with it I can't do with the classic pass? (I don't know the Hermann Pass; well I know it exists, but that's it, so this is honest asking.)

And don't worry, I'm not looking for a way around practising. I just think it would be nice to have a similar move I can use a little earlier.

 

[Scodischarge]

"If you don't like to practice, for God's sake find another hobby" - The Professor, paraphrased.

First of all, that's a really good quote! Second, please don't think I'm one of those people who want to get around practising. I just think it would be good to have a similar move that I can use as long as I can't do the Pass good enough.

Yes. I actually use the one-handed shift.

The difference between the Two Handed Shift (commonly called The Pass) and the One Handed Shift is, as you may guess, one uses two hands and one uses one hand. The one handed shift is more technically challenging in my opinion and will take some work to get down if you're not used to moving your fingers in that way. The day I finally got it, I practice so much I rubbed my fingers raw.

So you would recommend learning the one-handed shift as well? The one you use, is it the one described in EATCT, or is it the one Xavior Spade and KardSharp both have a tutorial on? (If those two are actually different I apologize, I didn't watch much of the respective tutorials and they looked pretty similar.) Those two one-handed shifts are the only ones I've found so far, so if you use a different one I'd be very interested in learning it as well.

The thing with the Classic Pass is that people get frustrated with it because they want it to be invisible, without realizing that it will never be "invisible" if someone is staring at your hands. You can get it so fast the eyes don't pick up on it, but it's still telegraphed because people see the moment of tension and when you do it super fast it gets loud. The absolute truth is that you don't do the pass when people are looking at your hands if you want to get away with it all the time.

When I wanted to learn the pass I did a few things to get as good as I could at it. I studied The Two Handed Shift section in EATCT almost daily for a few weeks (As recommended by Aaron Fisher), I watched Jason Englad's 1on1 here, and I practiced with specific purposes. I got a "deck trainer" - one of those sets of steel plates that makes your hands stronger, so I could improve my hand strength and speed. I would drill slow executions with the steel plates, then speed up over time. I also practiced with two full decks in the tuck cases, so I could move larger amounts of cards around inside the space my relatively small hands create.

Focus on being silent and executing the pass at the right moment and it will become 'invisible' far sooner than if you're trying to get a 'burnable' pass.

First of all: Of course it's impossible to do such a huge move without anything showing that it happened. But when I watch for example Xavior Spade perform his pass -- well, there are a few tiny things that are nagging in the back of my brain, but I can't actually see anything (of course, I am by no means an authority on spotting a pass).

It's really interesting how you practised your pass, I can definitely take a lot from it. I'd buy a deck trainer, but right now I have to be a little careful about how much money I spend.

Thank you very much on the other tips! I'll definitely follow them!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I don't really watch videos any more. If it didn't come from Ellusionist, I probably haven't seen it (and that's because I work for them). So I have no idea what Xavier Spade's looks like and I've never heard of KardSharp (Or I've forgotten about them, if I have heard of them). Sounds like a YouTube exposer channel to me.

I learned it from EATCT. It has a perfectly good description of how to do the move. You just have to study the book and visualize what will be happening with your hands before you can really practice it, which puts some people off.

"If a magician misses 10% of the method, they think you've fooled them. If a laymen sees 10% of the method, they think they've figured it all out." Paraphrased, unknown. What this means is that if a laymen feels like they know when you did something, you're as good as busted. Which is why learning to do sleight of hand at the right moment is better than 'technically' perfect sleights that are clearly telegraphed due to their lack of integration into the rest of your behavior.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

Is there any big difference to the class pass, in execution or performance? Can I do things with it I can't do with the classic pass? (I don't know the Hermann Pass; well I know it exists, but that's it, so this is honest asking.)

And don't worry, I'm not looking for a way around practising. I just think it would be nice to have a similar move I can use a little earlier.

It's similar in execution on paper, and the exact opposite in practice. The hand positions are the same and the angles are the same but the H-Pass is the classic pass but in reverse. The top packet stays where it is while you move the bottom packet to the top (I don't think it'll be considered exposure, but mods can remove this if necessary).

 

[Scodischarge]

I don't really watch videos any more. If it didn't come from Ellusionist, I probably haven't seen it (and that's because I work for them). So I have no idea what Xavier Spade's looks like and I've never heard of KardSharp (Or I've forgotten about them, if I have heard of them). Sounds like a YouTube exposer channel to me.

Xavior Spade is a youtuber who does magic tutorials mostly (I don't really watch any of his videos, so that may be wrong information; I just know that he also does tutorials). He's selling a video of his on the pass which I got a few months ago, though I didn't actually start practising the pass until a few weeks ago. His approach to it is a little different than Erdnase's, and though I prefer Erdnase he's got a really good pass, as far as I can tell.
As for KardSharp: He's a youtuber as well, doing mostly gambling sleights. He claims to have actually played and cheated in high-stakes games until a few years ago; apart from his word I haven't found any evidence for that, so I take that with a grain of salt. He can be found on T11 as well, where he promoted his "Million Dollar Mechanics".
The two of them take a slightly different approach to the one-handed pass than Erdnase does, but as you didn't know them my question about which version you do has taken care of itself.

I learned it from EATCT. It has a perfectly good description of how to do the move. You just have to study the book and visualize what will be happening with your hands before you can really practice it, which puts some people off.

Thanks, I've read the passage before as well and didn't have great problems about the visualizing (of course, the execution is something else entirely ...). I'll take your advice and study the section daily.

"If a magician misses 10% of the method, they think you've fooled them. If a laymen sees 10% of the method, they think they've figured it all out." Paraphrased, unknown. What this means is that if a laymen feels like they know when you did something, you're as good as busted. Which is why learning to do sleight of hand at the right moment is better than 'technically' perfect sleights that are clearly telegraphed due to their lack of integration into the rest of your behavior.

I really like the quotes you've got. They really hold some wisdom about the art I hadn't realized before. This is really some valuable advice I'll take to heart. Thank you very much!

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

I know Xavier. I didn't know KardSharp. I don't really watch much YouTube and I avoid any channel with names like that. YouTube tutorials are a blight on the magic community as far as I'm concerned.

I really like the quotes you've got. They really hold some wisdom about the art I hadn't realized before. This is really some valuable advice I'll take to heart. Thank you very much!

Read theory books.

 

[Scodischarge]

I know Xavier. I didn't know KardSharp. I don't really watch much YouTube and I avoid any channel with names like that. YouTube tutorials are a blight on the magic community as far as I'm concerned.

I haven't seen much of KardSharp myself, though what I've seen of him is actually quite good as far as I can tell. As far as I've seen he orients himself towards Erdnase and his Bottom Deal tutorial is quite good as well. However, I understand how you reached your conclusion about YouTube tutorials.

Read theory books.

I definitely will.

Again, thank you for all your help!