Ive been performing magic for about 2 years now and recently ive started really getting into gambling moves. I picked up a copy of The Expert At The Card Table and im studying it, even as hard as Edrnase is to read, but i want to learn more. I am by no means a master of the bottom deal or second deal but im practicing them and i also know some false cuts and shuffles. Only i want to learn more. In particular, i really want to learn the center deal and greek deal but i dont have the money to buy the books and DVDs on techniques like that (for example, foundations by jason england) and i cant find these techniques published anywhere online. Can someone please point me in the right direction in learning sleights like this? It would mean a lot. Thanks for your time
I dont know where to start with gambling moves, can someone help?
- Thread starter Thebonemagician
- Start date
I love Madison and his work but his publications and DVDs where he goes over moves still cost a bomb. Say, his book 'how to cheat at cards' is £52. I really have no money to buy anything but i really want to learn. Its a hard situation. Thank you for replying
Im still a minor so i dont have credit card or PayPal or any methods of payment like that and my parents wont buy me the material. Ive found lybrary before and it looks like something i would use but i dont have a single penny to spend. Im really trying to find free places yo learn the moves if thats even possible
Just study Erdnase for now. The things on the market now, largely, are derived from Erdnase's techniques.
If someone is willing to give away this sort of knowledge for nothing, you have to question their motives. As they say, "Those who know, don't say and those who say, don't know."
If someone is willing to give away this sort of knowledge for nothing, you have to question their motives. As they say, "Those who know, don't say and those who say, don't know."
There are a lot of 'gambling moves' in expert card technique, if you don't already own this it can be picked up for little cost. As for the greek and centre deals, I'm not aware of any free sources which properly teach these. However, if you know the mechanics of the push-off bottom deal then you should be able to figure out the greek deal from this.
Erdnase "The Expert at the Card Table" (book)
John Born "Cheating at Texas Hold'em" (book)
Allan Ackerman "Expert at the Card Table" (dvd)
Allan Ackerman "Las Vegas Card Expert Vol 1 & 2" (dvd)
Allan Ackerman "Advanced Card Control Series" (dvd)
Darwin Ortiz "The Annotated Erdnase" (book)
Darwin Ortiz "CardShark Vol. 1-3" (dvd)
Darwin Ortiz "Scams & Fantasies" (dvd & book)
Jason England "Foundations Vol 1 & 2" (digital download)
Paul Wilson & Jason England "The Unreal Work" (digital download)
Richard Turner "The Cheat" (dvd)
Simon Lovell "Gambling Moves with Cards" (dvd)
Steve Forte "Gambling Protection Series Vol 1-4" (dvd)
Wesley James "Expert at the Card Table Vol 1-7" (dvd)
In my estimations, Ackerman's "Advanced Card Control" and/or Jason England's "Foundations", are far superior to anything Daniel Madison has ever put out (and I own most everything Madison has put out). Madison's "Mechanic" volumes are far too expensive for what little you get content wise. Not to mention, he frequently contradicts himself and wastes a lot of time talking about nothing.
If you're going to get Erdnase, get Darwin Ortiz' "Annotated Erdnase", it's well worth it.
If you're looking for a very broad range of content on cheating techniques, I'd recommend Steve Forte's work. Even though this work is dated, it's still relevant... though he does not go into explaining in a whole lot of detail "how to cheat", as this series was meant to be merely how to prevent one's self from being cheated.
I own John Born's book, but I haven't read it in-depth yet, though it seems to be pretty dang good.
Hopefully this helps.
John Born "Cheating at Texas Hold'em" (book)
Allan Ackerman "Expert at the Card Table" (dvd)
Allan Ackerman "Las Vegas Card Expert Vol 1 & 2" (dvd)
Allan Ackerman "Advanced Card Control Series" (dvd)
Darwin Ortiz "The Annotated Erdnase" (book)
Darwin Ortiz "CardShark Vol. 1-3" (dvd)
Darwin Ortiz "Scams & Fantasies" (dvd & book)
Jason England "Foundations Vol 1 & 2" (digital download)
Paul Wilson & Jason England "The Unreal Work" (digital download)
Richard Turner "The Cheat" (dvd)
Simon Lovell "Gambling Moves with Cards" (dvd)
Steve Forte "Gambling Protection Series Vol 1-4" (dvd)
Wesley James "Expert at the Card Table Vol 1-7" (dvd)
In my estimations, Ackerman's "Advanced Card Control" and/or Jason England's "Foundations", are far superior to anything Daniel Madison has ever put out (and I own most everything Madison has put out). Madison's "Mechanic" volumes are far too expensive for what little you get content wise. Not to mention, he frequently contradicts himself and wastes a lot of time talking about nothing.
If you're going to get Erdnase, get Darwin Ortiz' "Annotated Erdnase", it's well worth it.
If you're looking for a very broad range of content on cheating techniques, I'd recommend Steve Forte's work. Even though this work is dated, it's still relevant... though he does not go into explaining in a whole lot of detail "how to cheat", as this series was meant to be merely how to prevent one's self from being cheated.
I own John Born's book, but I haven't read it in-depth yet, though it seems to be pretty dang good.
Hopefully this helps.
Wow thanks, i'll definitely check these out. Since you say you own most of Madison's work, do you own 'how to cheat at cards'? If so, is that book worth the money?
Actually, his "Mechanic" dvds were the last thing that I got from him. I felt so screwed by that work that I stopped buying his stuff. Ellusionist marketed his videos utilizing the time span of the dvds, and then when you find out that much of that time is him rambling on and on, it just made me angry to the point of not buying from them anymore. I did recently get "Ping" and "Fair Trade" recently, but I kept my expectations really low, and I'm glad that I did as these two tricks are nearly impossible to do impromptu (which is a high priority of mine). So, I'm pretty much done with them completely now. There are some "nuggets" that can be sifted from Madison's work, but it's not worth the money in my opinion.
How are you liking Ping? I'm hesitant to buy anything like that anymore after I got burned so badly on the false advertising of Stay Cool by the same creator. The gimmick they give you is nothing at all like the one in the tutorial and thus makes the specific method I want to use obsolete and a waste of $50.
In my opinion (obviously), don't waste your money. The gimmick leaves you horribly dirty and unless you have some other gimmick on you, it's nearly impossible to ditch, leaving you look like an aged arthritic. It would almost have to be a stand alone trick, and I was really hoping that I could incorporate the trick into something like a non-gimmicked coins across routine, but there's no way. Like I said, I'm pretty much done with Ellusionist due to their releasing poor products. I know that they provide some good product here and there, but when it's so hit or miss, I just don't want to support that kind of work (which can be one of the biggest problems with this industry: you just don't know when you, the customer, are the one being duped).
Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to sound like some sort of cry baby or finger pointer. I've just wasted a lot of money in the past on effects that were just completely unusable (as has everyone who's been in this art for any length of time), and I don't want newbies to feel disheartened. I wouldn't say anything like this, but Ellusionist doesn't post their "one star" reviews. With that all said, I'm not going to throw the trick away or anything, as it is quite clever to be honest. Hopefully, somewhere down the road, another gimmick will be released that will work perfect with Ping and then I will be able to incorporate it somehow into an existing routine.
You don't sound that way at all. As a matter of fact that's why I started reviewing products on my YouTube channel because they can't censor me there and I always try to include a live demo of the product. Far too many times have I been burned by false advertising. My sole purpose of even reviewing products is to educate the consumer of what they are getting into without the fancy trailers.
As for Ping, I saw Chris Ramsay utilize it for something really cool on his YouTube channel. He made the sound effect with one hand and pretended to catch an invisible coin in the other only for it to become an appearing cane. It was really cool looking. Just an idea to play around with so it doesn't go completely to waste.
That's pretty neat about your YouTube channel!
Actually, that's one of the routines taught in the video download that you get. It is a really neat effect. However, my original critiques (I think) still stand. Maybe if there was some way to ditch the Ping gimmick (it is an awkward gimmick to ditch), steal out a miser stash, and then go into that kind of a routine... I dunno.
I probably wouldn't feel as burned had I not spent so much on that trick (shipping is ridiculous as well). Oh well.