Here's an interesting thread from handlordz. Devo is talking about invention vs dicovery. Comment if you agree or disagree with him.
Quote by Devo: Please stop claiming anything as original or yours! It may or may not be original, but until you go through all the proper research you'll never know. We feel it's better to call them your "personal discoveries"... or items that you discovered on your own. This term takes all the heat off of you and the possible "originator" of the move. You figured it out on your own without anyone else, and there-fore is your own personal discovery. You aren't saying it's YOURS or that it's ORIGINAL because you don't know if it is or not. You aren't saying your the first person in the history of the entire world to come up with it... not in any way. And those that have published or came up with the same items years ago won't be pissed that you are claiming the **** they came up with before you! I think it's a great term and frame of mind that we all can live with.
Everytime I read something like "HERE IS MY ORIGINAL MOVE AND CONCEPT CALLED XXX(whatever, 3 birds and a baby)" I want to punch the screen! Who the f*%k is this person? Did this person go through thousands of moves, went through all the pros to ensure it's originality enough to stake his name on a claim? OR did the person just claim it without doing the proper research being respectful to card artists that came before him? I find "claiming" and "naming" moves without proper research disrespectful to all artists. I personally contact every expert artist I know and go through all of my libraries before I dare lay claim to anything. And if it's a variation (subtle variation) such as book cuts, flops etc... then all the credit goes and did go to the originator of the original move - Charlier etc.... Not everything I've done I'm sure is 100% correct, but at least I tried - and that is at least what we ask of you.
Why don't people just post up their personal discoveries? The things they came up with on their own? Who gives a **** about credits or who did what unless you are trying to "CLAIM" it...or say you're the first person in the world to do it... then I believe it's something completely different.
Here's the short version for those that don't like reading:
* - don't claim anything original and do not name moves - after all, you have no idea if it's original until you go through all the research which could take a long while and allot of work. If you have done that, then by all means, claim it, but make sure you've done your research! At least contacted me, Jerry, the Ulmen4, Jeff McBride and did some book research as well. Then you should be free to name and claim, and even then, sometimes years later you'll find the originator wasn't you... which is fine. Or you can't find it so you name it, but you know it can't be original... At least you tried, and didn't just claim it out of no-where. That's being respectful to the artform and the least you can do. There is NO ONE SINGLE SOURCE OF XCM! You need to do allot of research to find it all. Jerry has a great handle on all traditional items and variations and documented material while myself and the Ulmen 4 has a great handle on all underground concepts and material. McBride has access to items that aren't traditionally in print but if it is, he may of heard or have seen it before. And publications contain **** that none of us have seen if you dig deep and long enough.
* - If you must refer to something that you discovered, then call your items your "personal discoveries" - this respects other artists and you are not "claiming" anything... just showing what you came up with on your own accord and that is fine. No fuss no muss.
* - post your moves and your style... that is what counts, not if the move is "yours" or not... People will see if your style is original - after all, that is what matters most.
* - also don't say things that refer to it as yours such as this is mine, let me know if you've seen it anywhere else... that's just as bad as saying I'm too lazy to do the research. Or I "believe" it's original... same s%*t... please don't refer, just leave it as your personal discovery please.
And I'll leave you with this to help you understand our thought process and how people look when they make bull**** claims. Since I put out the flipback, I've had over 100 emails of people claiming to have invented the "flipback spread", bascially doing a flipback and letting the cards slide back on your arm. Now I first did this when I invented the flipback years before they were born. And after the first 50 emails of people saying "I INVENTED A NEW ARMSPREAD AND I CALL IT THE FLIPBACK DOWNSLIDE" or any other number of names they have given it... you start to get a little pissed that they didn't have enough sense to even ask you or anyone else if it's been done before... like they are smarter and more clever than anyone else in the world! and as more and more of the exact same emails and comments come in, you start to get more and more pissed off. It is the same with other moves that other people have done for a long while... someone comes along and acts like they were the first person in history to come up with it and that claim makes them a self-indulging prick... So here is the difference between disrespecting/being ignorant vs. saying you discovered something on your own without making a claim: Here's how it's seen and how it may be taken:
SOUND AND APPEARANCE
Here's how they sound:
Discovery dude:
I had a personal discovery today, I did a flipback and spread the cards on my arm.
my response would be "cool dude, it's a fun move, keep exploring kickass ****!"
vs.
I know all and am all NOOB PRICK!I CREATED A NEW ARMSPREAD EVERYONE, I DID A FLIPBACK AND SPREAD IT ON MY ARM, I CALL IT THE FLIPBACK LEGS-SPREAD DELUX SUPREME!
-My response would be "You dumbfu*k, it ain't f$%king new! Every mutherf$&ker that has done a flipback has done that you little ****.. now shut the fu*k up and get the fu*k away from me... BANNED, BLOCKED, IP BLOCKED and LOCKED!
ok, it's exagerated for effect, but you get the point. It's not just a term, but a frame of mind.
Quote by Devo: Please stop claiming anything as original or yours! It may or may not be original, but until you go through all the proper research you'll never know. We feel it's better to call them your "personal discoveries"... or items that you discovered on your own. This term takes all the heat off of you and the possible "originator" of the move. You figured it out on your own without anyone else, and there-fore is your own personal discovery. You aren't saying it's YOURS or that it's ORIGINAL because you don't know if it is or not. You aren't saying your the first person in the history of the entire world to come up with it... not in any way. And those that have published or came up with the same items years ago won't be pissed that you are claiming the **** they came up with before you! I think it's a great term and frame of mind that we all can live with.
Everytime I read something like "HERE IS MY ORIGINAL MOVE AND CONCEPT CALLED XXX(whatever, 3 birds and a baby)" I want to punch the screen! Who the f*%k is this person? Did this person go through thousands of moves, went through all the pros to ensure it's originality enough to stake his name on a claim? OR did the person just claim it without doing the proper research being respectful to card artists that came before him? I find "claiming" and "naming" moves without proper research disrespectful to all artists. I personally contact every expert artist I know and go through all of my libraries before I dare lay claim to anything. And if it's a variation (subtle variation) such as book cuts, flops etc... then all the credit goes and did go to the originator of the original move - Charlier etc.... Not everything I've done I'm sure is 100% correct, but at least I tried - and that is at least what we ask of you.
Why don't people just post up their personal discoveries? The things they came up with on their own? Who gives a **** about credits or who did what unless you are trying to "CLAIM" it...or say you're the first person in the world to do it... then I believe it's something completely different.
Here's the short version for those that don't like reading:
* - don't claim anything original and do not name moves - after all, you have no idea if it's original until you go through all the research which could take a long while and allot of work. If you have done that, then by all means, claim it, but make sure you've done your research! At least contacted me, Jerry, the Ulmen4, Jeff McBride and did some book research as well. Then you should be free to name and claim, and even then, sometimes years later you'll find the originator wasn't you... which is fine. Or you can't find it so you name it, but you know it can't be original... At least you tried, and didn't just claim it out of no-where. That's being respectful to the artform and the least you can do. There is NO ONE SINGLE SOURCE OF XCM! You need to do allot of research to find it all. Jerry has a great handle on all traditional items and variations and documented material while myself and the Ulmen 4 has a great handle on all underground concepts and material. McBride has access to items that aren't traditionally in print but if it is, he may of heard or have seen it before. And publications contain **** that none of us have seen if you dig deep and long enough.
* - If you must refer to something that you discovered, then call your items your "personal discoveries" - this respects other artists and you are not "claiming" anything... just showing what you came up with on your own accord and that is fine. No fuss no muss.
* - post your moves and your style... that is what counts, not if the move is "yours" or not... People will see if your style is original - after all, that is what matters most.
* - also don't say things that refer to it as yours such as this is mine, let me know if you've seen it anywhere else... that's just as bad as saying I'm too lazy to do the research. Or I "believe" it's original... same s%*t... please don't refer, just leave it as your personal discovery please.
And I'll leave you with this to help you understand our thought process and how people look when they make bull**** claims. Since I put out the flipback, I've had over 100 emails of people claiming to have invented the "flipback spread", bascially doing a flipback and letting the cards slide back on your arm. Now I first did this when I invented the flipback years before they were born. And after the first 50 emails of people saying "I INVENTED A NEW ARMSPREAD AND I CALL IT THE FLIPBACK DOWNSLIDE" or any other number of names they have given it... you start to get a little pissed that they didn't have enough sense to even ask you or anyone else if it's been done before... like they are smarter and more clever than anyone else in the world! and as more and more of the exact same emails and comments come in, you start to get more and more pissed off. It is the same with other moves that other people have done for a long while... someone comes along and acts like they were the first person in history to come up with it and that claim makes them a self-indulging prick... So here is the difference between disrespecting/being ignorant vs. saying you discovered something on your own without making a claim: Here's how it's seen and how it may be taken:
SOUND AND APPEARANCE
Here's how they sound:
Discovery dude:
I had a personal discovery today, I did a flipback and spread the cards on my arm.
my response would be "cool dude, it's a fun move, keep exploring kickass ****!"
vs.
I know all and am all NOOB PRICK!I CREATED A NEW ARMSPREAD EVERYONE, I DID A FLIPBACK AND SPREAD IT ON MY ARM, I CALL IT THE FLIPBACK LEGS-SPREAD DELUX SUPREME!
-My response would be "You dumbfu*k, it ain't f$%king new! Every mutherf$&ker that has done a flipback has done that you little ****.. now shut the fu*k up and get the fu*k away from me... BANNED, BLOCKED, IP BLOCKED and LOCKED!
ok, it's exagerated for effect, but you get the point. It's not just a term, but a frame of mind.
