Here's one that I was thinking about earlier today. I was performing my routine for Distortion today, which starts with a two card transpo including a double (this may sound familiar to some). Afterwards, the group of people found it amazing as usual... Of course, Distortion does overshadow the first tricks, which is kind of the point, to build and build on your routine. But today a person actually went back to the other trick in their mind and said "But I saw the card over there! It was right there!" Honestly, they may have been talking about the second trick, but it did make me wonder. How many here believe there is a too perfect rule?
Is there a too perfect rule?
- Thread starter MoonlightKnight
- Start date
Ok... I think I know what you mean.
There was a statement made over at the Cafe a while ago, where someone claimed an effect to be "too perfect". As in, the effect was so clean and strong, that there is really only one way to think about it.
"It must have been a trick."
A query like this is begging for a context, a box to put the impossible in.
I'll collect my thoughts I think before I try and have a go at this again.
Ty
There was a statement made over at the Cafe a while ago, where someone claimed an effect to be "too perfect". As in, the effect was so clean and strong, that there is really only one way to think about it.
"It must have been a trick."
A query like this is begging for a context, a box to put the impossible in.
I'll collect my thoughts I think before I try and have a go at this again.
Ty
Well if you think about it, there is a perfect example of this; Paperclipped by Jay Sankey. It IS too perfect, but not in a sense that can't be explained through "magic". I dunno, I like the idea, but I haven't really formed a true opinion on the subject yet.
I don't think that an effect could be "too perfect"!
In fact, If the trick is really strong, it has to be presented with a "strong routine". I mean, what I try to keep in mind while I perform, is that I must do everything in order to make the spectator only remember the "climax". They have to feel like if they have just received an upercut!
Anyway, you will always have some people who are too scientists : "Everything can be explained, magic does not exist, blablabla". I just smile and say, "yep, you're right..." and say something like "Yeah, I have a little invisible friend who help me! Didn't you see him?"
In fact, If the trick is really strong, it has to be presented with a "strong routine". I mean, what I try to keep in mind while I perform, is that I must do everything in order to make the spectator only remember the "climax". They have to feel like if they have just received an upercut!
Anyway, you will always have some people who are too scientists : "Everything can be explained, magic does not exist, blablabla". I just smile and say, "yep, you're right..." and say something like "Yeah, I have a little invisible friend who help me! Didn't you see him?"
This is a really good idea for a thread, I think there is a line that can be crossed as Ty has stated. The line goes from enjoying the magic to just thinking oh well it's a trick. Could the latter be an anticlimax, you build up this massive routine with a killer ending only to have a spectator say Oh it has to be a trick ?
Good thread
Good thread
I believe it has to do with your spectator's expectation of you, if it is someone you know, especially your parents, and you suddenly show up with some effect of doom without prior interest in magic then yes they will think it is just some weak trick.
on the other hand if someone think u are god then all your effect are nothing short of miracles.
in the end i think it comes down to crowd control, make audience believe that u are capable of impossible things then none of your effects will be "too perfect"
on the other hand if someone think u are god then all your effect are nothing short of miracles.
in the end i think it comes down to crowd control, make audience believe that u are capable of impossible things then none of your effects will be "too perfect"
I don't believe a trick itself can majorly be called 'perfec't, but i do believe, that Magic would be a bit more believeable if it wasn't so perfect. My OOTW routine from my lecture notes is called 'Nothing in this world is perfect', and it is a completely different approach to the effect which actually makes it believeable.
I have always thought that OOTW is the strongest trick EVER created it, and a lot of the response i get is incredible for it, as anyone should who performs it. However, doing my regular club work on fridays and Saturdays, i perform this about 5-6 times a night. And a couple made me think one day. After it, they couldn't believe it, literally. They said it was too impossible etc, and it made me think...is this really what some people think?
So with that in mind, i now create Magic where the spectators have no other option but to believe the only possible answer is Magic.
Most spectators love to see a Magician mess up, and if you do, it makes it look like you and your Magic are not perfect. however, to then make a good Magician from it, you need to do what any good Magician would do...make it right. So, when creating, try and make it seem as if you have made a mistake, then correct it. Like a top change. That can be one of the best pieces of Magic alone!!! The card is second from top, supposedly in the middle. You explain it is going to jump to the top, it is wrong....the spectators now relaz, and on the off beat, you top change for the selection. So, you messed up, not perfect, but hey, who is?!?! However, as a Magician, you can correct your mistakes and turn it into the selection and become a great magician again. These little things really can help advance your Magic and performance
I have always thought that OOTW is the strongest trick EVER created it, and a lot of the response i get is incredible for it, as anyone should who performs it. However, doing my regular club work on fridays and Saturdays, i perform this about 5-6 times a night. And a couple made me think one day. After it, they couldn't believe it, literally. They said it was too impossible etc, and it made me think...is this really what some people think?
So with that in mind, i now create Magic where the spectators have no other option but to believe the only possible answer is Magic.
Most spectators love to see a Magician mess up, and if you do, it makes it look like you and your Magic are not perfect. however, to then make a good Magician from it, you need to do what any good Magician would do...make it right. So, when creating, try and make it seem as if you have made a mistake, then correct it. Like a top change. That can be one of the best pieces of Magic alone!!! The card is second from top, supposedly in the middle. You explain it is going to jump to the top, it is wrong....the spectators now relaz, and on the off beat, you top change for the selection. So, you messed up, not perfect, but hey, who is?!?! However, as a Magician, you can correct your mistakes and turn it into the selection and become a great magician again. These little things really can help advance your Magic and performance
Why? Why would there be a too perfect rule? As magicians we create the impossible, nothing can be more impossible than something else. It's our job to make magic unbelievable and leave our spectators astounded and full of wonder. If they think otherwise then there's nothing wrong with the trick, but there's something wrong with your performance.
People often say that some tricks are just too impossible... I say, eff that. How can something be more impossible than another trick, that just ridiculous. Everything we do is impossible, we're magicians. We create the impossible.
Mitchell
People often say that some tricks are just too impossible... I say, eff that. How can something be more impossible than another trick, that just ridiculous. Everything we do is impossible, we're magicians. We create the impossible.
Mitchell
The too perfect theory (theory, not rule) has nothing to do with an effect or method being "too good", it has to do with the psychology and thinking of what your audience sees.
A good example of the too perfect theory coming into play would be doing a card to box with a force and a duplicate, where you show both hands completely empty, or let the spectator open the box. Yes, it's a good effect, but laypeople aren't as dumb as most magicians think they are; they're going to jump to the conclusion that you had a duplicate card. In that sense, it's too perfect to be believable.
How do you fix that? You eliminate that possibility, and have the card signed, which forces you to come up with another method.
Vernon told a story on Revelations about performing the Travelers on a riverboat. He would do it every night in his show, and these sailors would watch. Every night, he would have an audience member name a four of a kind, and he would do it with those cards to rule out the possibility of duplicates. (the luxury of the Sharpie was not available, so the only way to have cards signed was to do it with a grease pencil, thus ruining the cards, and any they came into contact with).
Every night when he did the trick, it would get a so-so reaction. One night he decided to have the cards signed instead, and the trick elicited an huge reaction from the sailors who'd seen him do the same trick every night, and when he asked them why, they said it was because they thought he just kept a bunch of cards in every pocket.
A good example of the too perfect theory coming into play would be doing a card to box with a force and a duplicate, where you show both hands completely empty, or let the spectator open the box. Yes, it's a good effect, but laypeople aren't as dumb as most magicians think they are; they're going to jump to the conclusion that you had a duplicate card. In that sense, it's too perfect to be believable.
How do you fix that? You eliminate that possibility, and have the card signed, which forces you to come up with another method.
Vernon told a story on Revelations about performing the Travelers on a riverboat. He would do it every night in his show, and these sailors would watch. Every night, he would have an audience member name a four of a kind, and he would do it with those cards to rule out the possibility of duplicates. (the luxury of the Sharpie was not available, so the only way to have cards signed was to do it with a grease pencil, thus ruining the cards, and any they came into contact with).
Every night when he did the trick, it would get a so-so reaction. One night he decided to have the cards signed instead, and the trick elicited an huge reaction from the sailors who'd seen him do the same trick every night, and when he asked them why, they said it was because they thought he just kept a bunch of cards in every pocket.
The Too Perfect Theory may exist, but the solution to it is definitely not to make your magic "less perfect".
If I am not wrong, the Too Perfect Theory is that the trick is SO clean and SO impossible that the audience, while trying to figure out how it works, comes to only one possible conclusion, and that conclusion they come to is the exact method you used.
For example, as mentioned, card to box. If you used a duplicate, your effect may be so clean that the audience can only think of one possible solution: Duplicate cards. Which is the actual method. And therefore you're screwed.
Some points I want to bring out:
1. In the first place, your audience shouldn't be trying to figure out how things work. That's my opinion. That's because even if they don't think of the actual method, ANY method that they think is the real method is bad enough. Read that again if you didn't understand me.
2. Instead of trying to beat it, go along with it. Structure your trick properly so that the only solution they come to is what you WANT them to think is.
That's all I have to say. Don't be too worried over the Too Perfect thing: just structure your trick properly, have better presentation and do good magic.
- harapan. magic!
If I am not wrong, the Too Perfect Theory is that the trick is SO clean and SO impossible that the audience, while trying to figure out how it works, comes to only one possible conclusion, and that conclusion they come to is the exact method you used.
For example, as mentioned, card to box. If you used a duplicate, your effect may be so clean that the audience can only think of one possible solution: Duplicate cards. Which is the actual method. And therefore you're screwed.
Some points I want to bring out:
1. In the first place, your audience shouldn't be trying to figure out how things work. That's my opinion. That's because even if they don't think of the actual method, ANY method that they think is the real method is bad enough. Read that again if you didn't understand me.
2. Instead of trying to beat it, go along with it. Structure your trick properly so that the only solution they come to is what you WANT them to think is.
That's all I have to say. Don't be too worried over the Too Perfect thing: just structure your trick properly, have better presentation and do good magic.
- harapan. magic!
The "too perfect theory" is a giant pile of rubbish. ANYTHING I can do to make my magic look more perfect, I will do.
Scott.
Scott.
i disagree, and you have to look at it in context. if the only explaination is the right explaination then your done. iv had this happen to me before. its worse with effects using gaffs. i got hit hard with this doign justin millers triune. a day later someone came ot me and said the only thing i could think of is"
then he told me how it "might be done" and he was right.
then he told me how it "might be done" and he was right.
Wow generated a lot of creative responses.
I would like to add something on the duplicate idea. Today I went around messing with the Too Perfect Theory (sorry about the title). I did the two card transpo everyone here knows with a dupe. I found if I JUST did that, it raised suspicion. So then I came up to bat with a person that said "Can I see the deck?" and in these situations you could make it an even more powerful trick. I simply top card palmed the dupe, and handed it to them. I inserted the card into my pocket. Later, when I made it "vanish" from the deck, and it ended up in my pocket, she freaked.
So it looks like the moral of this thead is, the only thing too perfect is your opinion on the too perfect theory. The End.
I would like to add something on the duplicate idea. Today I went around messing with the Too Perfect Theory (sorry about the title). I did the two card transpo everyone here knows with a dupe. I found if I JUST did that, it raised suspicion. So then I came up to bat with a person that said "Can I see the deck?" and in these situations you could make it an even more powerful trick. I simply top card palmed the dupe, and handed it to them. I inserted the card into my pocket. Later, when I made it "vanish" from the deck, and it ended up in my pocket, she freaked.
So it looks like the moral of this thead is, the only thing too perfect is your opinion on the too perfect theory. The End.
straight from Jay Sankey's Book "Beyond Secrets:"
"Perfection is by definition an absolute state and as such it is not incremental. A thing either is or is not perfect. With that in mind, tying the word 'perfect' with the word 'too' is a marriage made in semantic hell. Utter nonsense."
". . . if a routine is developed in such a way as to raise serious issues of credibility, the routine is not only not 'too perfect,' it is imperfect. With this in mind, I would like to humbly suggest that the 'Too Perfect Theory' should now and forever be referred to as the 'Imperfect Theory.'"
I, for one, believe in this whole-heartedly and hope to spread this theory as such. Rock on Jay!!
"Perfection is by definition an absolute state and as such it is not incremental. A thing either is or is not perfect. With that in mind, tying the word 'perfect' with the word 'too' is a marriage made in semantic hell. Utter nonsense."
". . . if a routine is developed in such a way as to raise serious issues of credibility, the routine is not only not 'too perfect,' it is imperfect. With this in mind, I would like to humbly suggest that the 'Too Perfect Theory' should now and forever be referred to as the 'Imperfect Theory.'"
I, for one, believe in this whole-heartedly and hope to spread this theory as such. Rock on Jay!!