Magic dvds - too cheap?

[fridoliina]

Hello everyone.

Magic exposure today is a big problem and no one really knows what do to about it and i was thinking about the prices on the dvds. Am i the only one that think they are to cheap? Lets say an effect like Stigmata, i personaly belive that its one of the strongest effects ever and the price on the dvd is just like 29 dollars and for 29 dollars you get the secret to one of the strongest effects released and some one has probably worked really hard to get the effect to the point where it is right now. 29 dollars might seem like a good price for the dvds, but isn´t the secrets worth much more? The problems with the low prices is that everyone can buy it just becaus they want to know how things are done and then maybe go out and expose it. Almost every dvd can be found Illegal for downloads or some other sites exposing it but i have almost never seen any effects that has a little higher price tag get as much exposure as other that are cheaper. what do you guys think about it?

 

[Virus]

Price ^ = Pirating ^

Price v = more buys

Its just right.

Most laymen dont know about buying magic.

 

[Steerpike]

but isn´t the secrets worth much more?

No. The secret is the most worthless part.

The problems with the low prices is that everyone can buy it just becaus they want to know how things are done and then maybe go out and expose it.

They can, but not everyone does. And if you increase the price, people will just pirate it more.

You're thinking like the RIAA.

what do you guys think about it?

What do I think? Stop wasting time complaining about exposure and rise above it.

 

[tazer]

imo, the best thing in the world would be books with performance dvds

layman would never read, and people who actually didnt buy something and got it illigally, wouldnt feel compelled to and probably wouldnt

but the price is fine for now i think

 

[fridoliina]

Price ^ = Pirating ^

Price v = more buys

Its just right.

Most laymen dont know about buying magic.

Well, i think we are wrong when we say that the dont. Maybe they wont buy magic but they downloading it for free. Iv seen alot of sites where you can dowload alot material for free, magic dvds and people posts comments under like, hey this is just AWSOME i downloaded this today, and i wil go to school/work and show everyone tommorow!. And that is a trick that i, who have been doing magic for about 4 years seriously would have worked acouple of months on.

 

[Steerpike]

Maybe they wont buy magic but they downloading it for free.

How many people do you think actually do that. Ballpark it for me.

Iv seen alot of sites where you can dowload alot material for free, magic dvds and people posts comments under like, hey this is just AWSOME i downloaded this today, and i wil go to school/work and show everyone tommorow!.

We call those people poseurs. They quit after about a month as soon as it starts getting hard and they aren't getting the psychological validation from it they were seeking in the first place.

I've contacted people like that as part of an ongoing non-scientific study. The majority of them have quit magic and their reactions to my attempt at peaceful contact were for the most part hostile, childish, and laden with profanity.

Do you actually think rabble like that are any threat to us?

And that is a trick that i, who have been doing magic for about 4 years seriously would have worked acouple of months on.

So in your mind, the solution is to do the same thing the recording industry is doing and jack up prices.

Newsflash: that will just increase piracy because nobody wants to mortgage their house just to buy Royal Road! You're treating your spectators as if they're all criminals, and that will just make them resent you.

 

[Marlin]

I like the prices. I'm kinda on a low budget sometimes so it helps that a lot of dvds dont cost too much. And if spectators are stupid enough to buy magic dvds just so they can expose the effects, they probably have no life and like to waste their money.

 

[VagueTheory]

The only thing they cannot pirate, are tricks that uses GIMMICKS. You know, Panic, Digital Dissolve, all that.

But most of the piraters are useless punks that practice one thing for an hour and think they mastered it.

 

[PhilTheMagician]

My thoughts:

"Almost every dvd can be found Illegal for downloads or some other sites exposing it but i have almost never seen any effects that has a little higher price tag get as much exposure as other that are cheaper. what do you guys think about it?"

Ok...so what about movies? Almost every movie that is unavailable, let alone attached to any price tag (ie: still in the theaters, or sometimes even PRE-THEATER depending on the title) are pirated and available for download. Price has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

I think the prices for magic DVD's are just fine. Like someone above posted, BOOKS are the way to go if you don't want your effect to be pirated. Now, it is possible to pirate a book, but it's SO not worth it. Who would take the time to photocopy every single page from a book? Most copy places wouldn't even do 1 page if they know the book is copyrite, and if you don't have the permission to do it from the publisher. But, having said that, it still doesn't eliminate people from posting exposure online. Just like with the music industry...... YOU CAN'T STOP IT!!!! Don't even try to convince those who are posting the exposure, because to them it's a joke.

Magic isn't really about the "secrets" as it is about the performance. I have seen MANY people do magic horrrrrrrrrrrribly. Just because someone knows the secret behind a trick doesn't mean they know how to do it....or doesn't mean you can't do it to them and still fool them! I'm just surprised that websites don't ban copyright videos......or monitor member's posting when they say things like "will trade X trick for Y trick".

I have come across MANY people who say that they've seen the tricks I perform done on Youtube, or on TV (thanks Jay Sankey and your show SPELLZ), but that doesn't bother me. Quite often those same people have never seen the effect performed for them in person, and therefore they haven't actually EXPERIENCED the magic...they just saw a video of it. As all of you know, seeing something in person is completely different from seeing it on TV.

Ok...that was a bit of a long rant....must be all the food I've consumed today.

Peace, and good cheer to all

 

[TKH]

Although exposure is not our biggest problem, honestly I have only had one person say they figured out how I did something by searching youtube. THe sites that have magic vids just hurt the company, not the performers, no laymen is wasting their time looking for magic dvds or paying for magic dvds. 30 dollars is a lot to a laymen who wont perform the effect. If worries about exposure the route to go as mentioned earlier is books. There are so many effects in classic books like Modern Coin Magic, Tarbell, Expert At the Card Table that are amazing. You look at a performer like Cyril, he really knows his Tarbell, you can pick apart alot of his effects and root them back to Tarbell.(Not saying same method, but clearly inspired by)

You can buy one of these books for about 30-50 dollars. And they will contain many effects that are just as effective as one of these overpriced overperformed dvds. If the classics arent good enough for you there are plenty of modern books, too. I know everyone is excited over Totally Out of Control, because Chris Kenner is a new face to you, but don't close your mind to one book. It is a fantastic book, but just about all of them are because its a lot harder to get away with printing a bad magic book then a bad but excellently shot DVD.

 

[notsoltd]

i dont think them downloading the whole dvd bothers me to much. not because i think its right but because i think someone that wants to see something just to know how its done wont sit in front of the computer for 2 hours watching a whole dvd they will find a short tutorial on youtube and watch that. that is the most common thing i hear, like at a christmas party the other day, i did linking rings and my cousin said wait letme see those ring right after i put them in my backpack. i switche the gimmick for 2 real ones. and handed those to her. she messed with them for about an hour trying to figure it out then she finally handed them back and said ya know what fine. i cant figure it out and you wont tell me so ill just search how to do it on youtube

 

[TKH]

The only thing they cannot pirate, are tricks that uses GIMMICKS. You know, Panic, Digital Dissolve, all that.

But most of the piraters are useless punks that practice one thing for an hour and think they mastered it.

Pirating and exposure are not the problem. And I think thats a pretty narrow minded view of people who pirate videos. Some of them have honest intentions and just can't afford to buy crap that they will not use. And they buy things that they pirate if they will actually use them. I know people like that. Besides the fact that you need to pay for them and they don't, it should not effect you at all, the companies are the ones that are hurting. Although if MAgic companies only released good effects, people would most likely pay for them.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

Pirating and exposure are not the problem. And I think thats a pretty narrow minded view of people who pirate videos. Some of them have honest intentions and just can't afford to buy crap that they will not use. And they buy things that they pirate if they will actually use them. I know people like that. Besides the fact that you need to pay for them and they don't, it should not effect you at all, the companies are the ones that are hurting. Although if MAgic companies only released good effects, people would most likely pay for them.

Justifying pirating and theft because of shoddy releases is absurd in all honesty. You shouldn't need to steal something in order to decide if you want it or not. Do you shoplift a DVD in a Wal-Mart, take it home and watch it to decide if you really wanted to pay for the movie in the first place? Then take it back to Wal-Mart and say: "Hey here is that $20 for the DVD, I only stole it to see if I would actually like the movie".

If people have a problem with crappy material being released....I dunno, maybe do a bit of research on the effect before buying it instead of pirating it? If magic companies only released good effects Hell would probably freeze over. Simply put not everything is designed to suit every single person's style, somehow people got the notion in their head that ever effect is universal and suits all performers.

As to the original point: It has nothing to do with price. It has to do with the changing mindset of magicians. Most of the people growing up in magic now or in magic are part of the Napster clique or think its cool that they are getting over on "the man" by getting something for nothing. I have never been, and never will be, a fan of pricing magic to the point where it is simply impossible for individuals not wealthy enough to afford it. You are catering to the rich at that point or those who can come to grips with coughing up a mortgage payment for a single effect. Or even better yet the elitest attitude that only the working pros are deserving of effects from certain creators and pricing them as such so that any hobbyist or amateur magician cannot justify spending cash that will not have the same return on investment it would for a working pro.

Most of the material you are seeing released these days mostly fits into two categories: 1. Material that was part of a magicians working routine 5-10 years ago or 2. Material that has never been shown to anyone outside of a webcam video.

If you are presenting your magic as a puzzle for your audience of course they are going to at least say they are going to run off and try and figure it out via YouTube. The reality is that the magic you performed, or the way you performed it, probably won't last long enough in their mind to even bother looking it up when they get home. The problem isn't exposure. I agree that piracy is a problem and not a problem that is going to go away regardless of whatever mechanisms are put in place to thwart the theft of magic. The crackers/hackers are always one step (or many in some cases) ahead of the security, always have been and always will be. You want to stop piracy, then change the general attitude of magicians who ask for advice when you have time to talk with them. Most 5 year olds know that stealing is wrong.....not sure where it suddenly became OK along the way.....

--Jim

 

[TKH]

I was saying for the guy to not spit on everyone who has downlaoded a magic video off the internet. So I take it you have never been disappointed in a dvd or effect you ahve bought? I have a great relationship with the magic shop owner near me, and he gladly will show me how something is done, so I dont waste my money on something that is crap. There are people who do not have that guy who knows you and knows the products and can help you with your purchase.

You say if magic companies only released good effects hell would freeze over, that is going to stay true unless people stop buying the crap.

Do you go on to iTunes and buy a song you like without ever hearing it? No you probably listen to it on the radio or hit the itunes thing that lets you listen to a bit of the song. Demo videos are nto the same with magic videos, they just give the label or the songs name, not if its right for you.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

Yes I have been disappointed in a few DVD's I have bought. No I didn't run back to them demanding my money back either.

When I go out to eat and try something new and it turns out I didn't like the meal at all I don't demand they take it off the check.

When I watch a movie at the theater and it stunk to high heaven I don't stop at the ticket counter on my way out the door and demand a refund.

If you watch a demo for a magic effect, read a review or two or three on it from reliable sources, and then decide to purchase something and happen not to like it...bummer, get over it. Sell it or try and return it if you are so inclined. Many places accept returns or offer a money-back guarantee. If you want to take a chance on an unproven creator or get sucked into the hype on anything and everything it's your own fault for being a compulsive buyer.


--Jim

 

[TKH]

Both watching a movie at a theater and eating at a restaurant are purchasing something that can only be used once, thats a hard analogy to a magic dvd. Therea re many restaurants that will give you your money back if you didnt like the food., but many magic shops will not take a return because "you know the secret", no matter how ridiculous of a secret it is.

I do not wish to say pirating/downloading is acceptable, but you must show some respect for the downloaders with good intentions.