Magic on TV (Copyright issue)

[Toby]

Hey guys,

As some of you know, im from Belgrade, capitol of Serbia (south-eastern Europe), and i have a question. On Serbia's number one television, "TV Pink", there is a show called street magic. It is about a guy who is doing street magic, and he is really bad performer. For example, in one of his shows, he performed the Wayne Houchin's Sinful (coin in soda can), and he did it so bad, that live audience that was in front of him, started to laugh as they could saw how the trick is done, and camera guy was standing in the worst posible spot he could be (because of exposure, i cant say where, but you guys will know), so everyone at home could perfectly see the main sleight of the trick.

In none of his shows (that i have seen), he never mentioned or credited inventors of the tricks that he do, but even worse, he stated in weekly magazine, that came out yesterday, that most of the trick he does, are his tricks. Wich, to say at least, is a lie.

Is it legal for him to do tricks on TV, and not credit the inventor of the trick (in this case, Wayne Houchine. But this is one of many...). I know that there is no law against being stupid and incompetent performer, but is there any way to stop someone like him.

I would like, if Wayne himself could give us his oppinion about this issue of anyone doing his tricks on TV, but not credit him, and if there is someone among you guys who could present us with legal side of this problem.

Thanx...

 

[wilfred]

do u have a video clip of him performing?
i'm sure we'd all love to see how BAD he is.

 

[Brad Henderson]

If he legally purchased the trick (or book containing the trick) and there were no restrictions placed on performance rights which they buyer agreed to prior to purchase, then he is well within his rights to perform the effect. (Now, teaching it or re-selling it to magicians would be another matter entirely.)

Brad Henderson

 

[Aos]

wait so is it a joke of the show that he sucks or what?

 

[Chase]

Unfortunately, even reserving television rights is a questionable legal position. It's never really been tested and there's no case law for precedent. It's really just a gentlemens agreement.

 

[Deryn]

isn't magic a royalty free thing? Who's to police what can and can't be performed.

To my understanding, buying the material is buying the right to perform it no matter where it is. The crediting issue is only important if you TEACH a variation of the trick. I don't think I'll be saying "here's a trick called *****, invented by *****." That's ludicrous.

If it was in fact an issue, it's not our place to say "hey that's stealing" if Wayne or whomever wanted to press charges, they'll do it.

And think of another thing, if Wayne, Danny, Daniel, anyone didn't want their effects to be performed, they wouldn't have sold the rights to perform them

 

[Brad Henderson]

There have been books and tricks sold with performance rights reserved. Some of them have been statements of questionable legal value. Some of them, mainly routines sold privately and not commercially, would be imminently enforceable. The issue comes with the acceptance of the limitation by the purchasing party. If I put a limitation statement inside the book, and you in no way agreed to it prior to purchasing it, it would be worthless. If, however, I sold sealed books with a rights reservation agreement on it, then it would be more so. (This is what many software programs do.) However, if I were to restrict sales to people who agreed to my restrictions - which has been done - then it would be a binding agreement.

Chase is right that it has not been tested in commercially released effects, but there are situations which could protect the creator.

Deryn alludes to a distinction which has not been raised. If the items if a commercially available product, then there really is no restrictions on where a trick can be performed. And he is right, in performance, no credit is ever needed.

However, this is not to say that we have free reign to perform any trick we want wherever we want. Material from another performer's act should be hand's off. And if you haven't bought the trick in question, then you do not have the rights to perform it. I realize with the secondary market that can get a little iffy, but if you're going to do something on TV, the least you can do is pay the guy whose idea you are using.

Brad Henderson

 

[fridoliina]

Well you cant copyright just an effect even if they say they do.

Lets say that a trick is using an optical illusion, do you really think its possible to copyright that? No everyone can do it.

Also IF it was possible to copyright an effect you could just change it alittle and it would be fine. Copyright laws are very strict.

 

[Deryn]

you CAN copyright an effect... copyright it's method at least. Like "King's Rising".. they copyrighted the HELL out of that.

 

[Brad Henderson]

You cannot copyright an effect, nor can you copyright a method.

You can however copyright a theatrical production. Many magicians have used this to protect their acts. They write it up as a play, complete with stage directions and theatrical/staging requirements and copyright the unit as a dramatic work. If someone were to try and recreate part of it - or even create a derivative work - there are legal protections.

You can patent a method, but that is cost prohibitive and only gives you 7 years worth of protection.

You can copyright instructions, but if someone were to "Rewrite them" there is, sadly, no protection.

As for "copyrighting the hell out of something" ... I do not know how something can by copyrighted more than that allowed any other work.

Brad Henderson

 

[Aris.SA]

You cannot copyright an effect, nor can you copyright a method.

You can however copyright a theatrical production. Many magicians have used this to protect their acts. They write it up as a play, complete with stage directions and theatrical/staging requirements and copyright the unit as a dramatic work. If someone were to try and recreate part of it - or even create a derivative work - there are legal protections.

You can patent a method, but that is cost prohibitive and only gives you 7 years worth of protection.

You can copyright instructions, but if someone were to "Rewrite them" there is, sadly, no protection.

As for "copyrighting the hell out of something" ... I do not know how something can by copyrighted more than that allowed any other work.

Brad Henderson

Hey Brad do you know that if the pages of a forum can be copyrighted? like posting screenshots of it on another website without permission?

 

[Brad Henderson]

Forums become interesting because the forum host owns the forum, but others contribute the content. The Magic Cafe claims that all content on their site is owned by them. I do not know if that is enforceable. Of course, you do have to sign up and agree to their policies to use that forum.

Now, if a company, say Apple, had a forum and you reproduced it replicating copyrighted images, then they may have grounds.

Of course, your use of said material affects whether or not it is reproducible. There are certain "fair use" laws which could apply.

Sorry I could not be of any real help there.

Brad