Magic - Things That Need to Change

[Creeper]

hey guys, after too many instances of the same occurence, I've finally had enough. Its extremly irritating, and in my opinon, its killing this art. What am i talking about? Youtube videos, or any videos at that matter, leaving out the patter, and substituting it for music. i'm not talking bout flourishing. There is no need to talk while flourishing, because it speaks for itself. i'm talking about magic. You can be the most talented person in the world, but if you have 0 presentation skills, your not going anywhere. In fact, if you have no presentation skills, then, in my opinion, you have no talent, you just a kid doing card tricks. This art is meant for entertainment, and astonishment, so how can we do that if we're not talking? Showmanship is more than half of whats most important in a magicians act. Why don't you guys offer something different. Jordan Lapping is a perfect example. He has probably some of the best patter I've ever heard. But everyday, we get that same Tivo 2.0 video, with linkin park blasting in the backround. We need to change! Anyone agree?

 

[KeenanG]

hey guys, after too many instances of the same occurence, I've finally had enough. Its extremly irritating, and in my opinon, its killing this art. What am i talking about? Youtube videos, or any videos at that matter, leaving out the patter, and substituting it for music. i'm not talking bout flourishing. There is no need to talk while flourishing, because it speaks for itself. i'm talking about magic. You can be the most talented person in the world, but if you have 0 presentation skills, your not going anywhere. In fact, if you have no presentation skills, then, in my opinion, you have no talent, you just a kid doing card tricks. This art is meant for entertainment, and astonishment, so how can we do that if we're not talking? Showmanship is more than half of whats most important in a magicians act. Why don't you guys offer something different. Jordan Lapping is a perfect example. He has probably some of the best patter I've ever heard. But everyday, we get that same Tivo 2.0 video, with linkin park blasting in the backround. We need to change! Anyone agree?

I agree.

I could really care less if you have music playing during a VIDEO.

If it's a live performance, you better be able to present your magic in the way you want to.

Keenan

 

[Mat La Vore]

You guys are still screaming at the same wall?

Who cares what people are doing on YouTube? And if you do, posting a thread here in the T11 isn't going to change anything. Go out and perform. It's a better use of your time.

 

[VagueTheory]

I see where you're getting to. And I agree.

But getting sort of off topic here, I see some people that actually use patter...and their voices sound so NASAL CONGESTED. It's disgusting. Look up XCManipulator on YouTube. Nothing wrong with the magic...but the voice.....eck.

 

[timft]

I agree and didsagree, the art really doesnt make any sense when your not talking but last night on the world magic awards. The best teen magicican in the world was a girl that did a ring trick, you know the ones where the rings keep on going in and out of each other. But all she did was play music and dance and she was great... The Greatest Teen Magician In The World

 

[DannyT]

I guess the main reason why people don't talk in their videos is because they feel stupid talking to a camera.

Some people don't even use patter. More of the beginners anyway. "Hey watch this." That's their patter.

I think making videos of tricks and only tricks are stupid. If your performing for someone and get it on camera, then it's awesome. I love seeing people's reaction.
And if you do have a video of a performance, there better be some showmanship in there!

 

[Figure Eight]

I agree wholeheartedly. There are a few effects that do not require patter but very few. I also think that all the video editing detracts from the performance.
I understand that it can be difficult to perform and use patter to just a camera. Here's a thought how about a performance to your parents, friends,dog,cat,horse, or maybe your stuffed animals.
I myself find it hard to come up with original patter. That being said I at least practice with patter and can find out what works and what does not.
To me it is about entertaining and without patter it seems like just a puzzle to figure out.

 

[The Dark Angel]

I don't really see the point in performing for a video camera anyways.

 

[Steerpike]

The more people say the word patter, the more I hate it.

Anyway, I'm actually planning on putting together a stage show where I don't talk at all. The illusions are all choreographed to a melodic metal soundtrack. I'm confident I can make this work.

Paul Green has the gift of the gab and that works for him. David Blaine is the strong, silent type and that works for him.

Complaining about what people do on YouTube is like spitting at the sky. The sky isn't going to care, and you'll probably end up hitting yourself in the face anyway.

 

[Anthony Bass]

I agree and disagree. I agree, because in some cases, you are correct. But I disagree because not all magic absolutely has to be done with patter. Look at stage performers. Some stage magic shows are done with no talking, just music. The difference between a video and a stage performace? One is in front of a live audience. Big whoop. Magic does not NEED patter. Magic should speak for itself. Alot of popular YouTube magicians made it to where they are with videos like this. So honestly, does it matter? Obviously only to a select few. Most of my videos include little to no patter (simply because talking to a web-cam feels foolish). So are you saying i'm killing magic? By substituting patter with music? I doubt it. Chris Brown, one of, if not THE most popular YouTube magicians has videos which contain no patter. Is he killing magic? I doubt it. Magic does not require patter if you are skilled enough to go without it.

Anthony Bass

 

[Steerpike]

Magic should speak for itself.

But it won't. Magic doesn't speak for anyone or anything, let alone itself. It's the performer's persona, character, and presence that does the real work.

Just as a quick historical example, Horace Goldin at the height of his fame in the early 20th century would perform his shows without speaking. Learn history so that you can put this kind of thing into perspective.

 

[Anthony Bass]

But it won't. Magic doesn't speak for anyone or anything, let alone itself. It's the performer's persona, character, and presence that does the real work.

Just as a quick historical example, Horace Goldin at the height of his fame in the early 20th century would perform his shows without speaking. Learn history so that you can put this kind of thing into perspective.

We're trying to prove the same point, yet you still disagree with me. Haha!

Yes, persona, character, and presence does the work. Speaking doesn't.

Anthony Bass

 

[Tally]

dude man i totally agree. presentation and showmanship is probably 90% of what magic is all about, excluding flourishes.

 

[copperfield 14]

You guys are still screaming at the same wall?

Who cares what people are doing on YouTube? And if you do, posting a thread here in the T11 isn't going to change anything. Go out and perform. It's a better use of your time.

I second that. Most people who post videos don't care about being pros, they just want to post videos cause they see people like Jordan who is getting alot of attention in his videos so they want to do the same. Nothing is ruining magic. It's never been better. Stop writing useless threads like this and go back and perfect your sleights and/or flourishes.

 

[Calmagic_Joseph]

A few weeks ago I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you, however after performing a few weeks ago at a party where maybe five people spoke English I have to say that to a certain degree some magic has to speak for itself, and there is plenty of magic that does. Most effects are Universal. I do however believe that without patter, showmanship, and presentation you can only perform tricks. It's not until you add these things that you perform a miracle.

 

[Steerpike]

We're trying to prove the same point, yet you still disagree with me. Haha!

I'm just saying that the idea of art speaking for itself is a myth. It was coined by people who were incapable of or too afraid to speak for themselves.

Look at how many people are echoing the sentiment without having read past the first post. It's depressing how many are taking the stance that you have to be running your mouth off simply because it's the opposite of what the dreaded YouTube kiddies do. I used to tell my spectators a joke that most people become magicians because they talk too much. It's becoming less funny now.

 

[StreetMage]

Wow. I leave for a few months, come back, and we're still crying this hard about videos on youtube? Get over it, guys. Youtube cannot and will not ever be able to kill magic or even hurt it a little bit. Yes, there are a lot of videos on youtube with magic in them. I've even made a few myself. Some I've taken down because I wasn't pleased with the quality, and some I've left up. I've seen a large quantity of magic videos on youtube. I've watched everything from live performances to kids with cruddy cameras and windows movie maker to (gasp) poorly made tutorials that expose the principle but give no guidance about subtlety or presentation. I have yet to see anything that has damaged my magic or magic as a whole with any kind of severity.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: silence is one of the most powerful principles in presentation. My ACR actually tends to get bigger reactions when I do it with absolutley no patter. Silent tricks, such as Warp One, Dream of Aces, and others like them have always gotten me the most killer reactions. For the most part, I've always considered the vast majority of magicians' patter to be convoluted, contrived, and a bit silly. That's great of you're a comic magician, but I find silence serves me better than an overly-used joke in most cases. It's even better when I feel I've been able to choose appropriate music to compliment a routine and help express through and with my magic what words cannot. So yeah, patter is not necessary, and might even be a little overrated.

 

[NlightN]

I'll have to agree with Steerpike on the patter thing. The more I hear it the more I dislike the word.

Personally I don't like the little **** kids on Youtube doing **** performances to music. But whatever, If it's more than a current obsession of the month thing they will learn after awhile.

When it comes to talking etc. I don't like talking that much while doing a few tricks. It's not me to have a set amount of lines I say during a trick. What I say each time I do a trick is completely random. I saw this guy on Youtube doing an ACR and his patter was exactly the same in both his show off to camera and 2 live performances. While I understand most operate like this, even the pros. It just seems fake to me.

While the spectator have no clue that it's all premade lines, I do and I don't like it at all.

 

[KeenanG]

I agree and disagree. I agree, because in some cases, you are correct. But I disagree because not all magic absolutely has to be done with patter. Look at stage performers. Some stage magic shows are done with no talking, just music. The difference between a video and a stage performace? One is in front of a live audience. Big whoop. Magic does not NEED patter. Magic should speak for itself. Alot of popular YouTube magicians made it to where they are with videos like this. So honestly, does it matter? Obviously only to a select few. Most of my videos include little to no patter (simply because talking to a web-cam feels foolish). So are you saying i'm killing magic? By substituting patter with music? I doubt it. Chris Brown, one of, if not THE most popular YouTube magicians has videos which contain no patter. Is he killing magic? I doubt it. Magic does not require patter if you are skilled enough to go without it.

Anthony Bass

The name Armando Lucero ring a bell to anyone?

Keenan

 

[Anthony Bass]

The name Armando Lucero ring a bell to anyone?

Keenan

Thanks Keenan. I rest my case.

Anthony Bass