More Flourishing than Ever?

Feb 14, 2008
31
0
30
canada
www.youtube.com
Now a days, magicians go on T11 and maybe Ellusionist. And more and more people are flourishing more than performing magic... I'm not saying this is bad, I'm just saying it's neat to watch the magic stereotyping come in to play. Before T11, Penguin Magic was actually popular! And practically no one did flourishing (again, this is not a bad thing).

It's just neat. Anyway... Just wanted to get that off my mind. Reply if you agree.
 
Sep 4, 2007
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Antioch,CA
Yeah, penguin magic used to be popular. There would be a lot of people on the forums. Like Aj, Zach, Akirafist. Every day. And Drew.
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,960
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Long Island/New York
Surprisingly I never went to Penguin Magic. I felt like their products were always risky. Risky meaning either you were really happy with the trick you bought or you didn't like it at all.

I wanted to buy this bottle trick from them because it had awesome previews, but ALL the reviews said that you cannot perform all the tricks done in the previews, and of course it was that one sleight that I wanted to do and the reviewers said you can't do it.

I was disappointed to hear that, and ever since, my views about Penguin Magic was that they only care for the money and not the customer.
 
Meh. Magic is boring to watch. I hate when there is a new magic video in the media section. theory11 was famous at the beggining because it was hyped so much and people wanted to know what it was. Penguin magic has always been the same. Don't forget that the flourishers gave up the media section to theory11. Also I'm not understanding the point of this thread. What are you trying to say?
 
Feb 14, 2008
31
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30
canada
www.youtube.com
I DONT NOW

it was just the thought.. back in the 90's or in 2001, flurishing was still very very new... and very few people did it... and now almost every cardist does only that


i think it's neato
 
Oct 28, 2007
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Meh. Magic is boring to watch. I hate when there is a new magic video in the media section. theory11 was famous at the beggining because it was hyped so much and people wanted to know what it was. Penguin magic has always been the same. Don't forget that the flourishers gave up the media section to theory11. Also I'm not understanding the point of this thread. What are you trying to say?

how can you say watching magic is boring? to me watching it is boring if it not new like if it is the same thing other than that i love it.

And i don't know what it is but peinguin never appealed to me it always seemed very generic and that goes for the tricks to, it is boring and there are so many product coming out of there it is like :eek:. I don't know maybe it is there style i love style and they don't have much of it, there website is very bleek and boring.
 

Aos

Mar 6, 2008
453
1
magic and flourishing are not related
magic is _clearly_ meant for a light hearted performer who likes to have fun with his audience
the problem is that that's not how most teenagers behave
they desire to look cool
they want to show off
so 97% of card tricks will not work for them
so they can either follow in the footsteps of the _few_ "dark" themed card magicians like daniel madison
or they can fling packets of cards around
that way they don't even have to interact with people at all!
perfect for youtube
they can put on some kicking rock music and look awesome cool without ever needing to entertain anybody
that's how most teenagers like it
that's why flourishing is popular
 
Oct 21, 2007
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dude penguin magic is awesome, i still go there... the prices and products are great, plus no shipping fees!
 
how can you say watching magic is boring? to me watching it is boring if it not new like if it is the same thing other than that i love it.

And i don't know what it is but peinguin never appealed to me it always seemed very generic and that goes for the tricks to, it is boring and there are so many product coming out of there it is like :eek:. I don't know maybe it is there style i love style and they don't have much of it, there website is very bleek and boring.

I meant to say seeing the same old magic. Like people posting there performences of tivo2.0.
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
My guess is that because flourishing is very much an overt "hey I can do something cool that most other people can't" type of skill that doesn't really require any kind of input from an audience, or talking of any description, it has more widespread appeal among young'uns.

When I think of flourishing/cardistry/XCM/whatever folks are calling it nowadays, I associate it with things like Breakdancing, Skateboarding, Snowboarding etc. These can all be "performed" and are incredible to watch (done well of course!), but there's also a major aspect of being fun to do and satisfying to master a new aspect. In other words, its often more about DOING it than anything else. Which of course, is absolutely fine.

Magic on the other hand is all about the audience. Its fun to practise if you're into it, but push comes to shove its much more of an "entertainment". As the evidence would suggest, this is less popular, and doesn't go over so well on web-based videos.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Yeah, penguin magic used to be popular. There would be a lot of people on the forums. Like Aj, Zach, Akirafist. Every day. And Drew.

I got a shoouuutout, I got a shooouuttout! Whoo! Yeah, the forums over there have died down drastically, even since when I joined a year ago. I remember even just back last December when I joined, there were a ton of members constantly on and contributing, and just having fun. There's a new "flood" of Penguins coming in, and I'm not sure if I like them or not. Guess people felt the same way about me when I first joined. :p But yeah, just of the top of my head, these are people that are "dead" to Penguin:

-Krayik
-Zackarias
-Zachmonky (kinda sorta)
-Akirafist
-JamesJay
-Rob_Taylor
-PJH_Marine (you?)
-therealsuperman13
-fallingblood (still on a little bit)
-flight4 (nobody misses him, though)

Wow, that's quite a long list of people that have left, just that I remember. I'm sure there were a lot more. Penguin has really decreased in popularity; time to go cry! Frijid is back though, so that makes the world a happier place.

But about the whole flourishing thing: I think it's cool, sometimes fun to watch, but the cold hard truth is: it's masturbation with cards. Yes, I just said that word. What I mean by this is that it seems people only do it to please themselves or to impress other people. I feel it originally evolved from magic, which has been, is, and always will be, learned to entertain people. Not impress other people or please ourselves. Well, ok, it does please me, but my main goal is to entertain.

I feel that flourishing is pointless, and although I was just recently intrigued by it, wanted to learn it, and tried hard, I gave up. It wasn't too hard, it's just that my true passion is magic, which I feel has a point to it, unlike flourishing.

When this site first "aired", I was all excited. A place where I could get awesome magic, learn from pros, talk with pros on the forums, but recently I've been a bit disappointed. The forums are great, but IMO, the Media Section blows. I would love to see more magic. It seems as if 90% of the videos accepted these days are flourishing, which I thought, was not what this site was originally about.

I have yet to see a magic contest here (one sponsored by theory11); I've only seen flourishing ones. If there has been an actual magic contest, I do apologize; I never saw it. It would be nice to see some magic contests; maybe even one for a Saturday Night Contest.

But anyways, back to the Media Section. I have submitted two videos to it, both of which apparently were rejected. My Schwing video, which Chris Kenner himself said was great (not trying to brag, just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside), was never put up, and I filmed and submitted it way back in like... November. Should it have been rejected? Maybe, maybe not.

My second video I submitted about 3 days ago, and was my video of "Reset With a Hook". I have received some very positive comments on it, both on forums and in private, and although it definitely is not the best of videos, I thought it was pretty good, plus it had awesome music, so I thought it deserved to be in there, but hey, it's not up to me to decide! By the way, if you want to see that video, check out the Card Magic forum.

But one thing I don't want to see is my videos accepted now that I have complained publicly. I perfectly understand if they rejected it; they obviously didn't meet the requirements, and I'm fine with that; I just think there should be more magic videos, and considering both of mine were rejected, I'm sure there are dozens more that could have been posted and made people proud, but instead there are a bunch of flourishing videos. One that stood out to me in particular was the guy on the webcam doing a "tribute". I couldn't see anything, and it just looked like a bunch of blurs. Didn't really entertain me much.

So theory11, I may have gotten a little off topic, but please, let's get some more magic videos up! Flourishing videos, when made correctly (which is rare, IMO) are ok to watch, but I feel that magic keeps us more entertained, and will attract a broader range of "viewers"

I know many people here will disagree with me, I'll probably get bashed, but those are just my feelings towards flourishing, Penguin, and the Media Section. :D
 

Jack

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2007
268
0
Decatur, GA
Flourishing actually kind of got me interested in magic again. I was never much into cards when I was younger and just doing gimmicks (like stuff you can buy at penguin). I had my trusty hotrod, scotch and soda, reality twister, silks, and so on but I got a little bored with them and hated having to cary so many things around with me. Twelve years later I see a the trailer for the Trilogy and I'm blown away. I had always thought of card magic as "pick a card... *shuffle* *shuffle*... is this your card... ooooo!" I had no idea what I was missing and I only have to cary around a deck of cards! I bought the DVDs (at penguin actually for $62) and started learing their tricks. I quickly found that I was well underskilled for their sleights so I went to thier sources: Dai Vernon, Erdnase, Hugard, etc... I read and practiced my ass off. When I would get frustrated or burnt out on sleight practice I would learn a flourish. The flourishing increased my dexterity and made executing sleights much easier. It also helped me learn to manipulate the cards fluidly to make my movements more natural.

I love that flourishing has gotten as popular as it has and I use some flourishes in my card routines. I don't consider flourishing to be magic though. It is simply fantastic card manipulation. However, both magic and flourishing take a lot of skill and dedication and should be respected equally. Aaron Fisher has a great quote in The Paper Engine...

"Lee Asher, the talented Las Vegas card man, used to tell me card handlers can be classified in two groups: either diamonds or pearls. Pearls are subtle, smoothe and elegant. As beautiful as pearls may be, they often aren't appreciated by the unrefined. A diamond, though it is flashier, is no less beautiful. Diamonds are shining and bright. Diamonds sparkle."

Cheers!

and shine on you crazy diamonds...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Meh. Magic is boring to watch. I hate when there is a new magic video in the media section. theory11 was famous at the beggining because it was hyped so much and people wanted to know what it was. Penguin magic has always been the same. Don't forget that the flourishers gave up the media section to theory11. Also I'm not understanding the point of this thread. What are you trying to say?

Magic is boring!?! That one made me lol. So instead of watching a performer entertain you with patter (possibly some great music), and some fun magic, you'd rather watch people juggle cards? Wow, I've never heard that before...

dude penguin magic is awesome, i still go there... the prices and products are great, plus no shipping fees!

True 'dat homie. :D

And i don't know what it is but peinguin never appealed to me it always seemed very generic and that goes for the tricks to, it is boring and there are so many product coming out of there it is like . I don't know maybe it is there style i love style and they don't have much of it, there website is very bleek and boring.

Penguin's layout and everything may be boring, but the great thing is that there is such a wide variety of material there. You can get anything; stage, close-up, thumb tip, DVD, books, sponge balls, etc. If you could give a beginner a $100 gift card to Penguin or a $100 gift card to theory11, which one would you give them. Remember, they're just starting out.

If you would give them the theory11 gift card, you would be very wrong. Beginners need to "cover their bases", so to speak. They simply cannot do that here, as there is nothing that teaches "basics". Yes, there are Aaron Fisher's 1on1s, and I'm sure he is an excellent teacher, but at Penguin you could get all of the books you'd need to get a huge foundation in nearly every genre of magic:

-Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic

-13 Steps to Mentalism

-Royal Road to Card Magic

-J.B. Bobo's Modern Coin Magic

Plus, there are beginner's DVDs:

-Born to Perform Card Magic

-In the Beginning There Were Coins

-Sponge by Jay Noblezada

If you bought $100 worth of those things, you would be extremely more advanced, and have a whole boat-load more material than the t11 guy. It's just a fact. Penguin offers some great stuff t11 can't, and t11 offers some great stuff Penguin can't.

Now I don't want you guys to think I'm "shoving Penguin down your throats" as it was so nicely put at E. I love it there, and I love it over here too. Both websites have their flaws, and if anyone would care to ask, I'd be more than happy to point out the flaws of Penguin. But both are great, and I can't ever see myself favoring one over the other. ok, so maybe I would favor Penguin a little bit, but I still love it here, don't get me wrong!
 
Magic is boring!?! That one made me lol. So instead of watching a performer entertain you with patter (possibly some great music), and some fun magic, you'd rather watch people juggle cards? Wow, I've never heard that before...

Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that watching magic that is posted in the media section is very boring." Alright let me show you a trick." Watch your card goes in the middle and comes back on top" Repeats the same thing for 2 things. Yes magic is entertaining. Like when someone like bill malone perfromes, but other than that people perform the same tricks and copy the magicians exact words and style then post a video in the media section. Remember this is only my opinion so don't try bashing on me.
 

Jack

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2007
268
0
Decatur, GA
Penguin magic is a great online store but that doesn't meant that's the only place I go. This is my favorite magic site but penguin has great prices and many more effects for sale. Now granted not all of the effects are great. In fact a great many of them are crap. However the good ones they have they sell for cheap and ship fast. I will never order flash paper, or mesika thread from anywhere else (unless you guys know somewhere cheaper ;)).
Bottom line... don't limit yourselves.

Cheers!
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that watching magic that is posted in the media section is very boring." Alright let me show you a trick." Watch your card goes in the middle and comes back on top" Repeats the same thing for 2 things. Yes magic is entertaining. Like when someone like bill malone perfromes, but other than that people perform the same tricks and copy the magicians exact words and style then post a video in the media section. Remember this is only my opinion so don't try bashing on me.

Hey, opinions are like buttholes; everyone has them. :)
 
Oct 6, 2007
612
0
Everyone has an opinion. My opinion is that watching magic that is posted in the media section is very boring." Alright let me show you a trick." Watch your card goes in the middle and comes back on top" Repeats the same thing for 2 things. Yes magic is entertaining. Like when someone like bill malone perfromes, but other than that people perform the same tricks and copy the magicians exact words and style then post a video in the media section. Remember this is only my opinion so don't try bashing on me.

Are you a magician or a flourisher? I'll wait for your answer to decide whether I 'bash' you or agree with you....

Saying 'magic is bording to watch', is a completely different spectrum to saying 'magic in the media section is boring'. The videos in the media section sure as hell do not make up the whole magic art.
 
Sep 2, 2007
37
0
Are you a magician or a flourisher? I'll wait for your answer to decide whether I 'bash' you or agree with you....

Saying 'magic is bording to watch', is a completely different spectrum to saying 'magic in the media section is boring'. The videos in the media section sure as hell do not make up the whole magic art.

Can't help but smile. Good observation justin. Anyway if copperfield14 is a flourisher, he got his nickname wrong but if he is a magician, that's a big insult to the actual guy with the same stage name! Oh well but then again i guess there's a reason for the '14' *shrug*. That's my opinion :D

To keep the topic on track, i agree with the thread starter. Cardistry is more 'cool' and more 'edgy' but my opinion to why more people are doing it is because *wears flame suit* flourishing is EASIER than magic.

It seems wrong to compare apples to oranges but that's my 2cents and humble opinion. Hope i didn't offend the XCM guys too much. Peace ok?
 
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