My Pass

[abstractmonkey]

Hey guys!


The first time I tried this I was told to get a better camera and come back. So I did!

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BWBMlkHlk

For all those guys who say the pass should never be done face up; I never do it face up in performance, just done here to showcase my pass.

PS: I'm only doing magic since Feb, and I haven't had a lot of time.... still, Christmas is coming!! 2 weeks of nothing but magic

Hope you enjoy it and feel free to be harsh

 

[Between the Sun & the Sky]

You're definitely on your way. Try practicing the riffle pass, that's a lot easier to cover up. Keep practicing!

Sun|Sky

 

[glg1996]

nice pass but you probably shouldn't have did it face up

 

[Donald C.]

Good job maybe do it a little faster though.

 

[GBORN]

Looked good, certainly better than I could do!

 

[chriswiehl]

once you get that pass down start tilting your hands a little to cover that top corner from view. then do the pass. you wont be able to see it.
just practice a few times.
looking good tho

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

Hope you enjoy it and feel free to be harsh

You said be harsh, so I will be. However, take nothing I say as me being a prick, its tough love for a magical brother.


First, why oh why is this on YouTube? I know its a trend, but it also lends to the trend of bad magic content on YouTube, something that most magicians whine over and then contribute to with "pass videos". For this sort of thing, I suggest using Vimeo and password protecting the video. That way, only people you want to see the video can.

Secondly, pass videos are absolutely pointless. Bash me now, folks, but I do not mind saying it. The pass is not a move to be done while being burned, it is not a move that was ever intended to be used without misdirection, and the pass will never be truly invisible. Disagree if you like, but I am far from the only one who thinks this. Two of the greatest card guys I know feel the same way. And yes, both are pro's.

The pass is meant to be used under misdirection. Eye contact, simple movement, etc. I think so many people refuse to use misdirection as it is actually a harder skill to learn than the sleight itself.

Making a video of your pass is a waste of your own time. Work on the pass, get the move comfortable for yourself, and then USE it. The perfect camera angle doesn't help you one bit. The only way you will ever learn a pass is to actually use the move in performances. The first time you perform it you will be crapping bricks, but thats a good thing. There is only so much practice that can be done alone. It's like so many things, you can only get so good by yourself (innuendo, anyone?).

As I said, I intend to be harsh to help you. I hope you take it that way and take my advice.

And as my signature says, my cyber door is always open if you need anything.

C

 

[Medifro]

Two of the greatest card guys I know feel the same way. And yes, both are pro's.

Ironically, I can tell you 10 top cards who truly believe the pass can be a burnable move. I can also tell you 10 names who do invisible passes, I saw 6, a very good source told me about the other 4. And trust me, the card guys you know ( I'm thinking Daryl and Lorayne? ) will deeply respect the card guys I have in mind, mostly because the card guys I have in mind are respected all over the magic world.

The pass being a burnable move is a long debate among card people, and I conclude that it IS burnable simply because I watched burnable passes. Pure and simple. Saying there aren't burnable passes when the truth is there is, in my opinion, simply weird. But then again, getting good footage is not easy.

Do keep in mind that a burnable move doesn't mean that it doesn't need misdirecting. "Always misdirect".

If you're saying pass videos are pointless, then I take it you don't put your pass on video and see how it looks, which means you're neglecting an extremely valuable practice tool. I do agree about posting a video online on a public website IS a bad thing, but if it got a password, I don't see why the student shouldn't be offered some pointers.

To the original poster: This is as harsh as it can get: A monkey can do a good pass from that angle. Get rid of the music so you can hear the sound, take the video from multiple angles, study the position of the hands best to cover it, and get a proper learning tool (Card College is a very very good start )
EDIT: I'd like to add that if you're doing magic for a short time, skip the pass and learn other easier controls ( double undercut, overhand shuffle controls .. etc ). With these you can perform more effects and get yourself more performing experience, the thing you need most at this moment.

Cheers,

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

Medifro,

Yes, you can burn a pass, I agree. Its possible, but that wasn't the intended use for a pass (most shifts were executed to switch packets before a cut, actually). I said the pass being invisible is impossible, which I firmly believe it is. Sure, you have burned guys and still been amazed by their pass, but did you go to another angle and watch it again? From some angle a pass is visible, hence the need for misdirection. In performance situations you will almost always be in some situation where you have an exposed angle for a shift, which is why I say it will never really be invisible.

Yes, I did say that pass videos were pointless. I say that because I care so much less about sleight of hand as I do performance. For me, how I know my sleights work is when I USE them, not when I look at them on video and critique them.

I also say that they are pointless because, like you said, what help can we offer from "the magic angle"? I much prefer seeing a performance with a pass in it and critiquing it then when it is in real world use.

And, Medifro, I've read your stuff before and respect your opinion. Please don't take it that I'm being a prick, haha

C

 

[abstractmonkey]

Hey guys, thanks for your comments;

Okay, I'm guna try and reply to everything as best I can:

1. C=B; Sorry about posting it on Youtube, I just haven't gotten around to Vimeo yet. I will do it presently.

2. I also think that pass videos are pretty pointless, however, I am only doing magic since Ferbruary, and have yet to invest in a portable video camera(I used my webcam) which is why I didn't do a performance (I'm not a HUGE fan of solo performances, although I do appreciate the skill level of the sleights is still a big part of these perfs). Added to this, even though I try to perform as often as possible (regardless of the audience), I still lack in feedback (I can only perform once or twice a month) so I just felt that this would be a handy way to get some quick feedback. Still, I do of course appreciate your point of view.

3. I of course use the pass under cover of misdirection in performance, and as I said before, I do perform whenever I can. THanks again C=B, that was what I was hoping for from this experience.

4. Medifro; I apologise profusely for the angle given, I myself made a similar comment anout another member's video, however, long story short, that is the only angle I can get at the moment {I'm try new ways of being creative with this, but it's not easy }. Again, sorry, hopefully you don;t think I'm trying to protect myself, and I hope you can see my genuine desire to get feedback {which is relatively scarce in the West of Ireland }

5. As for a learning tool, I do indeed use Card College as my learning base (perhaps the angle of death makes it hard to distinguish!).

6. With regard to the sound, that is something to which I pay EXTREME attention, and in the original videos, I can assure you that my pass is, if nothing else, almost silent, again I am still striving for perfection.

7. Regarding the easier controls; I have gotten these to a level which I find acceptable, and use them whenever the situation fits. i.e. the pass is NOT my only control, in fact I find the overhand shuffle control to be VERY deceptive.


Finally, thanks once again for your thoughts, sorry for the long post, but I do have a thing for CLARITY. Hopefully I can use this to improve my pass.

Slan go foill, {Irish for bye for now }

Steven.

 

[Medifro]

Medifro,

Yes, you can burn a pass, I agree. Its possible, but that wasn't the intended use for a pass (most shifts were executed to switch packets before a cut, actually). I said the pass being invisible is impossible, which I firmly believe it is. Sure, you have burned guys and still been amazed by their pass, but did you go to another angle and watch it again?

I totally agree about the angle issue, though it also makes sense to manage you're angles during performance, no? Its certainly got angles, but its not the only angly move in the world.

Yes, I did say that pass videos were pointless. I say that because I care so much less about sleight of hand as I do performance. For me, how I know my sleights work is when I USE them, not when I look at them on video and critique them.

I could type a long paragraph on this, but to make it short, please read Card College vol.2, the section on practice. A video camera is a very valuable practice tool. In more advanced sleights (palming, passes .. etc ) I think they are essential, far better than mirror.

And, Medifro, I've read your stuff before and respect your opinion. Please don't take it that I'm being a prick, haha

C'mon man, just because we disagree doesn't mean that we're becoming enemies , its that the move happens to be one of my favorites, and got alot of misconceptions ( in my opinion ) hovering around it.

Here, have a virtual beer, cheers mate

abstractmonkey, sorry if I've been somewhat harsh ( in a negative way ) in my previous post. If you insist on practicing the move, I'd like you to keep in mind that getting the pass down takes alot of time and effort. You see, some sleights are essential because of the learning process involved in them. This is especially true for the top change ( getting used to do it live will help you counter the mental block of doing bold sleights ), the pass ( making moves fit your hand ), and other moves like palming. The idea is these lessons are well understood only when you have good overall view on how sleight of hand works. Card College vol.2 is great for that, but also performing experience is an extremely important key behind this. Once you get that, and you know what kind of stuff happen during the performance, you're ready to learn these lessons.

In other words, make performing you first priority. Advanced concepts like the pass or DPS can be very interesting, and as you go in magic you might learn sleights that you'll never use. This is completely fine and is up to you, as long as you got a good sleights and effects to perform, and basic understanding of performing theory.

Sorry for the rant, just want to make sure you're on the right path man

Cheers,

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

]
C'mon man, just because we disagree doesn't mean that we're becoming enemies , its that the move happens to be one of my favorites, and got alot of misconceptions ( in my opinion ) hovering around it.

Here, have a virtual beer, cheers mate

Haha, just making sure. So few have that opinion.

C

 

[abstractmonkey]

Thanks again,

Medifro, you were in no way too harsh, that kind of honesty is what I live for and the only real reason I posted a video.

I'm always working on learning from performing, so hopefully I can use that to improve my sleights. Thanks again for the insights (I don't even know any magicians locally that I can ask this stuff to so I greatly value this feedback.)

Steven.

 

[Sean.Cinco]

If you want to see a burnable pass executed from a fellow T11 forum member, watch Feras' videos (if you ever make them public! hahaha!). Seriously guys, he is the man when it comes to the pass! And I taught him everything he knows! Ok, not really, but there is some truth to that XD.

Steven, first of all, thank you for not doing the rocking motion that Brad Christian teaches in his videos. That rocking motion annoys the hell out of me! Anyway, you really need to relax your hands when you're doing the pass. I know you're trying to build up speed, but you don't need to be extremely fast when doing the pass. I forgot which pass video it was (it was either Pass with Care or On the Pass), but the guy teaching actually did a pass that was 10 seconds long and it was completely invisible. Does the pass have to be completely invisible? No. Take what both Feras and C=B told you and find out what works for you. Do we all want a perfect pass without the use of misdirection? Of course we do. Will it happen? If you put the work into it (or if you take steroids with your pass like Feras does XD). In all honestly, I think there are much better controls for controlling the card to the top than the pass, but we'll save that for a different thread.

Anyway, work with different finger positions. You may notice that the slightest change in positioning can make your pass 10x better. Also try using your right hand more for cover and focus on the bottom pack going up rather than the top pack going down since it'll be the original bottom pack that the spectators will end up seeing. That's all for now. Good luck and happy holidays!

 

[abstractmonkey]

Hey again,

@ Sean.Cinco; Thanks for the advice, I will try and use it to better my pass. Also 2 quick questions:

1. When you say different finger positions, could you be more specific (mainly on which hand; left, right or both!?)

and 2. Is "Feras" Medifro?? I'm quite new to magic so I'm not sure of everyone's names yet If so, do you think he would mind showing me some of his pass videos?? [Is he approachable or scary like Daniel Garcia ]

Thanks again, great tips,

Steven.

 

[Sean.Cinco]

Yes, Feras is Medifro. He's a really good friend of mine in the magic world.

As for finger positions, it's for both hands. Like try placing your fingers for your right hand a little bit more towards the left edge of the deck to add more cover.

 

[Medifro]

EDIT:check PM

 

[Glenn Krohn]

I think your pass looks good!..

Glenn
NORWAY