Not ranting

[TPA]

Lets get this straight.

People over in the E Forums are mad because wayne left E and came to theory.
Personaly,R.J is mad also and he thinks that T11's tricks are not impresive.
Think about it, E has never produce a Trick like this.Most of the tricks seen on E have made alot of people very dissapointed

As far as Factory sealed and Bullet,people are going to be really dissapointed with the methods...Trust me

But hey this is my opinions..
What do you guys think?

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

Everything RJ posts here is really just defending his company and I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think he's ever bashed T11. But E definitely does not like the fact that Wayne left them.

But the one thing I absolutely positively disagree on is that Factory Sealed and Bullet are going to be disappointing. The only way you're going to be disappointed is if you were expecting real magic, which I have a feeling some people are (some people are expecting something SO clean and SO simple that when they buy them, no matter how clever or genius the methods are, they will be disappointed because it wasn't the super-clean, simple and easy miracle that they were expecting).

If you're not expecting real magic, I do believe they will be freaking amazing. Trust me.

And I'm not an E-fanboy. I like T11 and Ellusionist both - they are both awesome companies, and the only way to win when buying magic is to gain knowledge from every possible resource you can.

Just my opinions. And if we could keep this an adult, calm, level-headed discussion, that would be just delightful.

 

[StreetMage]

Lets get this straight.

People over in the E Forums are mad because wayne left E and came to theory.
Personaly,R.J is mad also and he thinks that T11's tricks are not impresive.
Think about it, E has never produce a Trick like this.Most of the tricks seen on E have made alot of people very dissapointed

As far as Factory sealed and Bullet,people are going to be really dissapointed with the methods...Trust me

But hey this is my opinions..
What do you guys think?

Um. . . credentials check? Why should we trust you? Not trying to be obnoxious or anything, just saying. Do you know the methods? My biggest question about both of these is whether you can borrow the bottle, but then again I haven't done much digging for answers because I won't be buying much of anything any time soon.

As far as everything else, it pretty much makes sense that E is ticked about this. I mean, think about it. Wayne was one of their top creators, and now he's in league with (dramatic crescendo). . . the Buck twins. . . the only people whose actual names are banned from being mentioned anywhere on E's forums. Not eve kidding. Mention the Buck twins, and your topic will evaporate with not so much as a pm to explain why. It was like that for T11 as well prior to their debut. So yeah, E is ticked, RJ is probably ticked. . . they just feel sleighted (chortle) that one of their buddies has chosen to bunk up with somebody they don't like.

Not impressive? Distortion may be a new handling for a gimmick that already existed, but I'd still say it's pretty impressive. Panic is a frickin' mind-melter, and the stuff on the Trilogy appears to be absolute gold. Digital Dissolve sounds pretty insane, too. . . and I don't think anything E carries can really claim to be any more impressive than anything sold here. . . it's all magic to me, and I'd honestly say the two sites are about on par with each other as far as impact of material sold goes.

Now, on the other hand, I can't honestly say I've been disappointed by anything I bought from E. Everything I've purchased from that site has been a quality product that I have eventually used somehow. That sentiment also seems to be reflected by most of the forum members, according to what I read when I was active there. Which tricks and which people are you referring to when you say that "most of the tricks. . . have made a lot of people very disappointed"?

 

[Deleted member 2755]

Um. . . credentials check? Why should we trust you? Not trying to be obnoxious or anything, just saying. Do you know the methods? My biggest question about both of these is whether you can borrow the bottle, but then again I haven't done much digging for answers because I won't be buying much of anything any time soon.

As far as everything else, it pretty much makes sense that E is ticked about this. I mean, think about it. Wayne was one of their top creators, and now he's in league with (dramatic crescendo). . . the Buck twins. . . the only people whose actual names are banned from being mentioned anywhere on E's forums. Not eve kidding. Mention the Buck twins, and your topic will evaporate with not so much as a pm to explain why. It was like that for T11 as well prior to their debut. So yeah, E is ticked, RJ is probably ticked. . . they just feel sleighted (chortle) that one of their buddies has chosen to bunk up with somebody they don't like.

Not impressive? Distortion may be a new handling for a gimmick that already existed, but I'd still say it's pretty impressive. Panic is a frickin' mind-melter, and the stuff on the Trilogy appears to be absolute gold. Digital Dissolve sounds pretty insane, too. . . and I don't think anything E carries can really claim to be any more impressive than anything sold here. . . it's all magic to me, and I'd honestly say the two sites are about on par with each other as far as impact of material sold goes.

Now, on the other hand, I can't honestly say I've been disappointed by anything I bought from E. Everything I've purchased from that site has been a quality product that I have eventually used somehow. That sentiment also seems to be reflected by most of the forum members, according to what I read when I was active there. Which tricks and which people are you referring to when you say that "most of the tricks. . . have made a lot of people very disappointed"?

Who are the Buck Twins and what did they do to make E so mad at them? I never even heard of them. (And yes, I was disappointed at first as well when I heard Wayne left Ellusionist, well I hope his products will remain the same style and still keep their same quality which by the sound of Theory 11's goal means yes.)

-Doug

 

[Ben Long]

As far as I'm concerned, Both E and T11 are nice high-end stores. Politically, how does any of this matter? It's America. We're allowed to shop at more than one store. Who cares who works for who? I"m positive that there will be many people who will be just as creative working on both sites producing solid products that we will all drop big bags of shiny money on.

 

[S3al]

Lets get this straight.

People over in the E Forums are mad because wayne left E and came to theory.
Personaly,R.J is mad also and he thinks that T11's tricks are not impresive.
Think about it, E has never produce a Trick like this.Most of the tricks seen on E have made alot of people very dissapointed

As far as Factory sealed and Bullet,people are going to be really dissapointed with the methods...Trust me

But hey this is my opinions..
What do you guys think?

I think t11 and E both suck. Sorry but I do. But I come here because this place sucks less, but it still sucks.

 

[Krash]

As far as I'm concerned, Both E and T11 are nice high-end stores. Politically, how does any of this matter? It's America. We're allowed to shop at more than one store. Who cares who works for who? I"m positive that there will be many people who will be just as creative working on both sites producing solid products that we will all drop big bags of shiny money on.

I am actually agreeing with you on this one. I'm not really bothering myself with whos working for who, and what is going on with either site. To tell you the truth. I love almost everything about Ellusionist. I love everything about Theory11, and to be honest, this is why I post everything that I want to post here at the T11 forums.

The only thing that I don't like about Ellusionist is...you guessed it...the forums. I love their products, especially their cards. Yes I'm going to be buying both 2nd Edition Black Ghosts and Shadow Masters. Yes, I'm going to come here and post reviews on both decks whenever I do recieve them. Why? Because I feel that the people here would appreciate it much more. Whenever I posted anything on the forums at Ellusionist, heart felt or not, it pretty much got ignored. Here...I actually get people agreeing with things I say, and also openly DISagreeing with what I say. It's just nice to know that your voice is heard, you know?

Shane K.

 

[magicmagicmagic]

Lets get this straight.

People over in the E Forums are mad because wayne left E and came to theory.
Personaly,R.J is mad also and he thinks that T11's tricks are not impresive.
Think about it, E has never produce a Trick like this.Most of the tricks seen on E have made alot of people very dissapointed

As far as Factory sealed and Bullet,people are going to be really dissapointed with the methods...Trust me

But hey this is my opinions..
What do you guys think?

posts like this make me HATE t11 mods... you would NEVER see crap like this at E. T11 isn't a bad company, nor is E... they both have great and horrible products (but thats all OPINION ain't it?). Everything E touches is not gold, but neither is everything from T11. Personally, E has customer service beat! and T11 has some good names behind it. but to make a thread like this is rude, immature, and a waste. T11 MODS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, maybe that will get there attention and they may do something? bunch of lazy losers.

 

[StreetMage]

Who are the Buck Twins and what did they do to make E so mad at them? I never even heard of them. (And yes, I was disappointed at first as well when I heard Wayne left Ellusionist, well I hope his products will remain the same style and still keep their same quality which by the sound of Theory 11's goal means yes.)

-Doug

The Buck twins are two members of T11's core 11 creators. They are flourish artists and magicians, and they've released the Trilogy here as well as several entries in the 1-0n-1 section. As far as what they did to make E so mad. . . I have no earthly idea. Their names are completely unmentionable on E's boards, so nobody has ever discussed it there, and I haven't seen it mentioned here, either. Chances are the subject is taboo in both places, and I'm comfortable with the fact that it's really not my business because it has nothing to do with my magic.

 

[StreetMage]

posts like this make me HATE t11 mods... you would NEVER see crap like this at E. T11 isn't a bad company, nor is E... they both have great and horrible products (but thats all OPINION ain't it?). Everything E touches is not gold, but neither is everything from T11. Personally, E has customer service beat! and T11 has some good names behind it. but to make a thread like this is rude, immature, and a waste. T11 MODS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, maybe that will get there attention and they may do something? bunch of lazy losers.

Yeah, like ban you for being rude and immature. I don't agree with the level of control here all the time (personally, I'd like to see better grammar and less useless posting), but openly insulting the mods will not get anyone on your side because the mods hold all the power, and anyone with a healthy fear of getting suspended or banned knows that. You really should calm down. This thread wasn't all that offensive or rude. It's actually one of the more reasonable ones I've seen about the beef between the two sites. Please don't get this topic locked down by being nasty toward the mods.

Oh, and by the way, there's no reason for the mods to do anything about this topic because there are no rules against topics like this being discussed on the forums. Try to get THAT kind of freedom on E's forums. The thread that this topic actually discusses was locked on E.

 

[The Dark Angel]

posts like this make me HATE t11 mods... you would NEVER see crap like this at E. T11 isn't a bad company, nor is E... they both have great and horrible products (but thats all OPINION ain't it?). Everything E touches is not gold, but neither is everything from T11. Personally, E has customer service beat! and T11 has some good names behind it. but to make a thread like this is rude, immature, and a waste. T11 MODS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, maybe that will get there attention and they may do something? bunch of lazy losers.

First off I take offense that you think Jack is a bad moderator. He has done a fantastic job so far, and I think that most people would agree.

Second, while this may be your opinion, I disagree with it on many levels. It is your post, not this thread that is immature and rude. If you really think that Ellusionist is a better place to be than Theory 11, then go there, no one is forcing you to be on this site.

 

[Deleted member 2755]

posts like this make me HATE t11 mods... you would NEVER see crap like this at E. T11 isn't a bad company, nor is E... they both have great and horrible products (but thats all OPINION ain't it?). Everything E touches is not gold, but neither is everything from T11. Personally, E has customer service beat! and T11 has some good names behind it. but to make a thread like this is rude, immature, and a waste. T11 MODS SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK, maybe that will get there attention and they may do something? bunch of lazy losers.

I do agree that E forums are watched closely and constantly so you never really find bad threads. Well since T11 just started and they want to start out with a good rep, I don't think any of their products are really bad, but all of them aren't golden jewels either. As for E, there isn't anything I hate there either. I also agree that customer service at E is amazing (I can't speak for T11, I haven't purchased anything here yet.) Also, maybe the reason why T11 forums aren't as moderated is because they just started. Maybe when people make enough threads and discuss the things they want discussed, they will offer people the position as moderator. (I think E does that as well through private messages to people.) So the people who want the position will take it, the people who don't want it will say no thanks. Give things time.

-Doug

 

[Aris.SA]

The Buck twins are two members of T11's core 11 creators. They are flourish artists and magicians, and they've released the Trilogy here as well as several entries in the 1-0n-1 section. As far as what they did to make E so mad. . . I have no earthly idea. Their names are completely unmentionable on E's boards, so nobody has ever discussed it there, and I haven't seen it mentioned here, either. Chances are the subject is taboo in both places, and I'm comfortable with the fact that it's really not my business because it has nothing to do with my magic.

I wanna know if a buck twin could reply it would be awesome, or if someone that knows the real problem.. what happened between E and the bucks?

 

[Deleted member 2755]

I wanna know if a buck twin could reply it would be awesome, or if someone that knows the real problem.. what happened between E and the bucks?

If its that bad of a subject, I doubt the either of the Buck twins will comment, and I didn't know Dan and Dave were the Buck Twins. I saw the Trilogy preview, but I didn't know their last name was Buck. I think it is just best we drop the subject because I'm sure they don't want to talk about it just as much E doesn't.

-Doug

 

[magicmagicmagic]

Case in point, my post should have been deleted and or stricken from forum existence. I didn't even know his name was Jack. This is my point, yes it was rude and immature, yet it flew. Is that right? no of course not, and no its not against the rules, but that speaks volumes of the integrity of the forums and those in charge of it. I've really tried to be quite about this and more so, like the forums... but at times its just plan silly. The mods basically don't exist, and to a few that is the mods doing a great job?

"You are known by the company you keep" If thats the case, that doesn't say much for Theory 11 right now, I would expect and want to see better. I guess its true tho, you can be a professional at something and still a newbie at others. Maybe the site will mature more with time. I sure hope it does.

 

[KeenanG]

Lets get this straight.

People over in the E Forums are mad because wayne left E and came to theory.
Personaly,R.J is mad also and he thinks that T11's tricks are not impresive.
Think about it, E has never produce a Trick like this.Most of the tricks seen on E have made alot of people very dissapointed

As far as Factory sealed and Bullet,people are going to be really dissapointed with the methods...Trust me

But hey this is my opinions..
What do you guys think?

Who cares?

Honestly. That is E's and Waynes Problems. Why should we worry about it?

As far as dissapointment with methods.... THE METHOD DOESN'T MATTER. The only thing is what the audience sees and feels from the EFFECT. NOT THE METHOD.

The method could be the hardest, easiest, stupidest thing in the world. But, if it works and if the audience reacts the way I am hoping for, I will use it.

Keenan

 

[The Dark Angel]

Case in point, my post should have been deleted and or stricken from forum existence. I didn't even know his name was Jack. This is my point, yes it was rude and immature, yet it flew. Is that right? no of course not, and no its not against the rules, but that speaks volumes of the integrity of the forums and those in charge of it. I've really tried to be quite about this and more so, like the forums... but at times its just plan silly. The mods basically don't exist, and to a few that is the mods doing a great job?

"You are known by the company you keep" If thats the case, that doesn't say much for Theory 11 right now, I would expect and want to see better. I guess its true tho, you can be a professional at something and still a newbie at others. Maybe the site will mature more with time. I sure hope it does.

He has not removed your post for several reasons (these are assumptions, by the way)
he either has not been online to see it, or (and I find this more plausible) it has not broken any rules, and there is no real reason to delete it, subsequently.
I reiterate: You obviously do not like the website, however you stick around and complain about how much you dislike the website and the people that run it.
There is only one mod for this forum, not to mention the Admin. If you have such a problem with a laid back running of the forums, then you should talk to Jon Raiker, or to Jonathan Bayme and request more mods be added in.
But again, no one is forcing you to come here. If you do not like the website, then don't come, it is very simple. But if you're going to come here, despite the fact that you dislike it, then I don't think that you deserve the right to complain.

 

[magicmagicmagic]

He has not removed your post for several reasons (these are assumptions, by the way)
he either has not been online to see it, or (and I find this more plausible) it has not broken any rules, and there is no real reason to delete it, subsequently.
I reiterate: You obviously do not like the website, however you stick around and complain about how much you dislike the website and the people that run it.
There is only one mod for this forum, not to mention the Admin. If you have such a problem with a laid back running of the forums, then you should talk to Jon Raiker, or to Jonathan Bayme and request more mods be added in.
But again, no one is forcing you to come here. If you do not like the website, then don't come, it is very simple. But if you're going to come here, despite the fact that you dislike it, then I don't think that you deserve the right to complain.

man you dont get it, reading might help. Its not that i dont like the site, i think the "theory" behind it is really a good idea. However, minor things keep it from doing well, and this is obviously one of them. I dont want to go anywhere, but i would certainly wish the weak points could be strengthened. Please dont say this isn't a weak point either. ANY forum with only one mods and an admin IS a weak link to a site. Its just ridiculous that a thread like this can be started. There's no other site that would stand for something like it, its just poor taste. It does not speak highly of the integrity here... yet the person who want better integrity gets racked over the coals. If i went on an E bashing rant.... and thats what it was... would I be better respected?

 

[conjure_pitch]

The system here is clearly not perfect but it is in no way bad. Not only was that comment about how bad the Moderators here are unnecessary, but it was a little bit childish in my opinion. You are, however entitled to say whatever you like. I don't disagree with that. The reason it wasn't deleted is likely that it was your opinion. I know of a nice little thing called free speech. They should try having a look at that belief over at E once in a while. If something is just plain and simple, a blatantly insulting, unnecessary, vulgar comment, then yes by all means, delete it. If it is someone's opinion and is not breaking any language rules, grammar rules, or hurting anyone directly too bad then leave the post up.

Like if a persons opinion makes your site look bad, suck it up! They don't like it and there's nothing you can do about it.


And also, just throwin this around but, if I have to hear the regurgitate garbage phrase "thats just my .02 cents" again, immediately after my ".02 cents" gets completely ignored, I am going to hurl.

If you are not a reg on those forums your completely ignored. I have a lot of forum experience and I have not found a more boring place to go in my entire internet life. Which is a fair bit of time.

 

[Loz]

Though I both respect T11 and Ellusionist as companies, I have to say that, in my opinion, T11 has a much better idea of how to run forums. Yes, the moderating is a bit more relaxed here so you get the odd stupid and pointless thread, but at Ellusionist if you spell a word wrong you get about 15 people jumping on you saying "Ah, you missed out an apostrophe! Go back to school you damn twelve year old, how dare you disgust us with your prescence on these forums!" and every single interesting debate seems to end with "C'mon now guys, let's get back to the magic."

But aside from that I really do have a lot of respect for both companies. T11 began the site with a piece of marketing genius, and Ellusionist is already established as a company with great marketing and quality products, and no matter how irritating Brad Christian may be, he knows what he is doing. So personally I think any bashing of a particular company is stupid and immature. If you don't like them, then just shut up and don't buy their products, it's as simple as that.

Unless we're talking about penguin of course