Roughing Fluids/Materials

[Maaz Hasan]

Before I say anything, can we all take a moment to acknowledge in awe as to how there has not been a discussion on this on the TXI forums yet (or atleast nothing came up when I searched for it)?

Anyways, I've always wondered which roughing fluid works the best, or even if there is any difference in the outcome. From what I understand, the main "competetors" in this discussion are Krylon 1311 Matte Finish, Testors Dullcoat 1260, Harry Robson's Roughing Stick, and Science Friction.

Could people who have used any of these (or all of these) please rate them based on Effectiveness, Residue, Economy (How much you get, how much you use, how much it costs), and How long it lasts.

This debate has pretty much gone on forever in magic without a clear answer. That being said, I don't think we necessarily need to know which one is straight up the best. We just need to know which one we should buy.

Thank-you

 

[RealityOne]

The answer is whatever works best for you. I use Testors Dullcoat and have no problems with getting just the right feel.

 

[JPS]

I mostly use the krylon finish which is very dependant on how much fluid you use and what deck. For my purposes i feel if you dont have anything else at your disposal or you dont want to go to the trouble of finding something better, it does its job.

 

[Josh Burch]

Before I say anything, can we all take a moment to acknowledge in awe as to how there has not been a discussion on this on the TXI forums yet (or atleast nothing came up when I searched for it)?

This sounds like someone has been on the Magic Cafe lately. On the Theory11 forums we acknowledge that some topics are going to be repeated, in our view it is generally better to start up a new thread than to dig up a thread that was started 10 years ago. Some people on the cafe are more willing to yell at you for doing something wrong than they are to actually help out.

Could people who have used any of these (or all of these) please rate them based on Effectiveness, Residue, Economy (How much you get, how much you use, how much it costs), and How long it lasts.

I use 2 things Krylon spray and white candle wax depending on what I need the roughing for. I have used a deck for over 10 years now that was sprayed with Krylon sealer. It still works great today. The coat is pretty dry and permanent which works for most classical applications.

I have used a candle in last minute situations or when I need a card to stick to something other than another roughed card. The wax needs to be reapplied more often. I can almost be rubbed off the card given enough time.

I use roughed cards fairly often and have never needed to experiment outside of these materials. I'm sure that the other products out there are solid but I haven't felt the need to purchase or use them.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

This sounds like someone has been on the Magic Cafe lately. On the Theory11 forums we acknowledge that some topics are going to be repeated, in our view it is generally better to start up a new thread than to dig up a thread that was started 10 years ago. Some people on the cafe are more willing to yell at you for doing something wrong than they are to actually help out.

Ha, you read me like a book. I saw this debate go on for over 10 pages on various forums.

Thx for the help everyone

Btw, has anyone tried Science Friction or the Roughing Stick, and do you recommend it.

 

[DominusDolorum]

Great topic, and something that I've wondered about but done no research on. I use a brand called Rust-oleum because the store I went to didn't sell Krylon.

Something I've also wondered: For an i****** d*** I found that the cards don't align exactly. There is always a small fraction of an inch showing and it just bothers me. No one's ever called it out but it remains none the less a fear that it could happen because to me it's obvious. Does anyone else have this problem for their homemade i******** d***** or even pre-made decks?

 

[Maaz Hasan]

Great topic, and something that I've wondered about but done no research on. I use a brand called Rust-oleum because the store I went to didn't sell Krylon.

Something I've also wondered: For an invisible deck I found that the cards don't align exactly. There is always a small fraction of an inch showing and it just bothers me. No one's ever called it out but it remains none the less a fear that it could happen because to me it's obvious. Does anyone else have this problem for their homemade invisible decks or even pre-made decks?

I've heard that rust-oleum isn't that good, and have thus avoided buying it, even though it's cheap. Does it work?

Also, by the invisible deck not aligning, do you mean at the sides and top, or as in it wont stick perfectly, causing the card to sort of bend away from each other. If it is the latter, I would suggest using a new deck to make them, just to keep the condition good. If not, you may have over used it, and you can put it into a card clip or a card press for a few days (and if you use a card clip, you can put them under some books) to flatten them out. If not, the misalignment probably just adds to the effect, as the spectator sees 2 card where there are really 2 cards.

 

[DominusDolorum]

I've heard that rust-oleum isn't that good, and have thus avoided buying it, even though it's cheap. Does it work?

Also, by the invisible deck not aligning, do you mean at the sides and top, or as in it wont stick perfectly, causing the card to sort of bend away from each other. If it is the latter, I would suggest using a new deck to make them, just to keep the condition good. If not, you may have over used it, and you can put it into a card clip or a card press for a few days (and if you use a card clip, you can put them under some books) to flatten them out. If not, the misalignment probably just adds to the effect, as the spectator sees 2 card where there are really 2 cards.

I've used Krylon in the past and I had the same issue with the misaligning. And I used a new deck in the construction. The card clip idea sounds good though so I am going to apply a new coat and then pop it in the card clip.

I had another question. People don't normally reach for the card after the reveal but has anyone held the card and wondered why it felt rough or bizarre in some way?

I seldom perform with the Invisible Deck. Does it show?

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Do you really think a normal person will know that a card feels unusual? Unless they handle card daily, like a magician or hardcore poker player, they'll never notice.

 

[DominusDolorum]

Do you really think a normal person will know that a card feels unusual? Unless they handle card daily, like a magician or hardcore poker player, they'll never notice.

I suppose not. Like I said, it's never happened that they want to hold the card after the reveal, and 99% unlikely they won't notice the rough feel. But I was wondering if someone had that spectator, that 1% that held the card and noticed something felt off.

 

[RealityOne]

@DominusDolorum if your cards not aligned because they are warping, it is because you are putting too much spray on the cards. The key is doing multiple very light coats. If you can see the cards "wet" after spraying, you are putting too much spray on them. There will be a slight warp after the spraying which will be reduced after the cards dry thoroughly. After they are dry, put them in a Porper Card Clip or under a stack of books for a couple of days. I had typed up some step by step instructions for making R/S decks, so shoot me a PM if you are interested.

The other issue may be that you are using an older deck that is warped. Anything other than a new deck will have a slight warp and natural break where cards are reversed (that is why it is easier to pick up a face up double from the top of a deck). The solution is the same -- stick them in a card clip or under a stack of books.

As for spectators handling the cards, I always have them take out the card and show it to the audience holding it between their thumb and finger. They can't tell anything (unless of course you have so much stuff on the card that it sticks to their hands). Another subtlety is to cut the cards at the point they take their card and put the right hand packet on top of the left hand packet and then turn the deck over.

 

[Bryson G.]

I use Harry Robson's Roughing Stick. I don't use any other roughing method, so I cannot compare it to anything, but I can speak of my experience. Here are my favorite attributes about the Roughing Stick.

1. With the Roughing Stick, you can easily adjust how strong the roughing is on the card. You can get anything from a "weak" roughing to a "strong" roughing, depending on how hard you press when you apply the Roughing Stick, and I've found this extremely useful (I can elaborate on the ways I take advantage of this if anyone is interested).

2. The Roughing Stick is super fast. I can make an invisible deck is 5 minutes, and I can make a packet trick in like 30 seconds.

3. With the Roughing Stick, you can adjust where you apply roughing on a card very precisely. Some packet tricks need you to put roughing on only half the card and that's easy to accomplish with the Roughing Stick. being able to apply roughing wherever you want on a card, thus being able to hide or reveal cards based on how you hold them, opens up lots of doors for making new tricks or improving old ones.

4. The Roughing Stick is portable. Even though it looks like it's made of wax, it has never melted on me. I take one with me on every trip and every gig. It takes up very little pocket space. This means you can replace or repair roughing gimmicks on-the-go.

5. The Roughing Stick only gets roughing stuff where you want it to go. You don't have to worry about getting roughing residue in the air. You can apply The Roughing Stick without needing newspaper down under the cards to prevent the residue from getting on the floor. This means you can apply the Roughing Stick anytime, anywhere.

6. The Roughing Stick lasts forever. I've made lots of invisible decks, packet tricks, and repairs, but the Roughing Stick isn't really even visibly shorter.

Now, it wouldn't be fair to give you all the Roughing Stick's best attributes without stating it's disadvantages. I'm hesitant to call this one a disadvantage, because of how easy it is to fix, but I do think that the Roughing Stick's roughing does tend to wear out after some time. This has never been a problem for me, though, because it's so so easy to apply another coating and you know the roughing is wearing out far before it'll fail in a performance. The other disadvantage is that the roughing residue appears waxy on the back of a card, but it's really only visible when moving the card up and down in really bright light.

Overall, I would really recommend Harry Robson's Roughing Stick, but, then again, I've never had to use anything else.

 

[Elok]

Great topic, and something that I've wondered about but done no research on. I use a brand called Rust-oleum because the store I went to didn't sell Krylon.

Something I've also wondered: For an i******* d**** I found that the cards don't align exactly. There is always a small fraction of an inch showing and it just bothers me. No one's ever called it out but it remains none the less a fear that it could happen because to me it's obvious. Does anyone else have this problem for their homemade i******* d***** or even pre-made decks?

I don't know if this would be considered exposing or not. But maybe the coating on the cards is offset. I cover all of the cards and it works wonderfully.

 

[DominusDolorum]

I don't know if this would be considered exposing or not. But maybe the coating on the cards is offset. I cover all of the cards and it works wonderfully.

I didn't mean to ignore your comment but you were right about my comments. I am deeply sorry about that, but I see they have been edited. I'll pay more close attention in the future.

Also, the original construction was just done poorly. With the tips provided to me by RealityOne my two new R&S decks I made work beyond expectation.

I've heard that rust-oleum isn't that good, and have thus avoided buying it, even though it's cheap. Does it work?

I tried looking for another brand but I couldn't find anything other than Rust-oleum. I ended up using it anyway and it works well. Like REALLY well. I had to take some of it off that's how well it worked. If anyone can't find Krylon, I recommend this brand as a substitute.

 

[JPS]

Great topic, and something that I've wondered about but done no research on. I use a brand called Rust-oleum because the store I went to didn't sell Krylon.

Something I've also wondered: For an i****** d*** I found that the cards don't align exactly. There is always a small fraction of an inch showing and it just bothers me. No one's ever called it out but it remains none the less a fear that it could happen because to me it's obvious. Does anyone else have this problem for their homemade i******** d***** or even pre-made decks?

I get this with all my decks, its a result of each spread being 2 cards thick. Not only do boarders point out, but the cards look block-ey. I havent found a solution to this, just wanted to let you know you arent the only one

 

[DominusDolorum]

I get this with all my decks, its a result of each spread being 2 cards thick. Not only do boarders point out, but the cards look block-ey. I havent found a solution to this, just wanted to let you know you arent the only one

Thanks for the reply. I actually made a new deck using a method that RealityOne suggested and all of those problems are gone.

 

[Elok]

I get this with all my decks, its a result of each spread being 2 cards thick. Not only do boarders point out, but the cards look block-ey. I havent found a solution to this, just wanted to let you know you arent the only one

I feel like that is a bit too much information on the trick. But it is up to the T11 team to decide.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

I feel like that is a bit too much information on the trick. But it is up to the T11 team to decide.

Think about it, Nobody who is on the forums of a magic page is just a passerby. They would only be here if they truly wanted to help and learn about magic. They probably already know about the trick (or they wouldn't have clicked on this specific topic), or they will learn about it soon. I don't think a little semi-namedropping will necessarily ruin magic, especially if the passerby is interested in magic

 

[Elok]

Think about it, Nobody who is on the forums of a magic page is just a passerby. They would only be here if they truly wanted to help and learn about magic. They probably already know about the trick (or they wouldn't have clicked on this specific topic), or they will learn about it soon. I don't think a little semi-namedropping will necessarily ruin magic, especially if the passerby is interested in magic

You are probably right, I just get very edgy around magic exposure.

 

[DarrenWilliams]

Great thread. I made my first DIY roughed pack to duplicate a trick that did not fool Penn and Teller the other night. Penn gave the clue that "Teller is smooth" and the he himself is "A bit rough" which gave the magician the info he needed to know that he hadn't fooled them. The trick though, was excellent and I can almost reproduce it flawlessly. Just need one more coat I think of Rust-Oleum matte to keep anything from peeking out.