i have some money and want to spent on control i mastered the classic pass clipshift control but i need another control what is the best to buy cascade or shinobi ? wich need much practice with is easier wich is fair
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shinobi or miller cascade control
- Thread starter ilovestreetmagic
- Start date
First off: Clipshift shouldn't be used as a control. It can be, but there's way better, easier methods. I highly recommend Lee Asher's "Losing Control" pdf. Second off, I personally own and like both. Both are worth adding to your collection, but I have to say, after practice, the cascade control is more surefire. The shinobi... well... it's hard to say without revealing, but let's just say sometimes it's obvious. Even with the best performance, there are just some people who can figure it out. The cascade control, when done well (or perfectly) is really passable and mostly angle-proof if done correctly.
In short, I recommend both. If you can only get one, go with the Cascade Control first.
I'm actually a bit iffy about both of these controls.
Cascade control: The selection process is a bit questionable. If you actually use the riffle glimpse as a selection process, or are willing to change your method of audience selection simply for the sake of adding a control to your repertoire, get the cascade control.
Shinobi control: The magician looks at the selection. This is just me and my style, but my character really has no clue what card the
audience has selected.
@saborfang, Why shouldn't the clipshift be used as a control? It's pretty my only uses for it.
-Your hands don't come together, so there's no heat on them.
-Since your hands don't come together, you can misdirect stronger with your free hand.
-The timing is different compared to the other dribble selection controls, like the side steal and pass. With the clipshift, the crucial moment happens prior to the hands coming together, with the sidesteal, and pass, or most other controls really, the crucial moment happens after the hands come together. This might not seem significant, but it is.
^(i'm not sure if that last point constitutes exposure, but if you're uncomfortable with my wording, let me know.
I'll go as far as to say that the clipshift is effective in different times and places, more so than most people think.
Cascade control: The selection process is a bit questionable. If you actually use the riffle glimpse as a selection process, or are willing to change your method of audience selection simply for the sake of adding a control to your repertoire, get the cascade control.
Shinobi control: The magician looks at the selection. This is just me and my style, but my character really has no clue what card the
audience has selected.
@saborfang, Why shouldn't the clipshift be used as a control? It's pretty my only uses for it.
-Your hands don't come together, so there's no heat on them.
-Since your hands don't come together, you can misdirect stronger with your free hand.
-The timing is different compared to the other dribble selection controls, like the side steal and pass. With the clipshift, the crucial moment happens prior to the hands coming together, with the sidesteal, and pass, or most other controls really, the crucial moment happens after the hands come together. This might not seem significant, but it is.
^(i'm not sure if that last point constitutes exposure, but if you're uncomfortable with my wording, let me know.
I'll go as far as to say that the clipshift is effective in different times and places, more so than most people think.
Last edited by a moderator:
That's true, but if you're getting them to pick a card from a spread, a spread pass is superior. Each move is good in its own situation, and the cascade has to be done immediately after the selection process, similar to a dribble/riffle pass.
A spread pass is not always superior. There is great motivation in the doing the cascade flourish. Sometimes it adds a very convincing "I nave no idea where your card is in this mess" to the effect. Watch Tony Chang's video on the Cascade Control on his blog. I also believe the cascade control is more burnable than a spread pass.
Of course not always, but I believe that in more situations when a spectator selects a card from a spread, and returns it to a spread, the spread pass is the most effective move.
I never questioned the motivation behind the flourish.
The same thing that can be accomplished with a dribble pass, or even just a dribble after a control.
I agree with that.
depends on the trick. standard tricks where the magician isnt supposed to look at the card use the miller cascade control. plus the miller cascade control is much more fair. shinobi requires some awkward movements that cud make the spectator suspicious.
First of all, ilovestreetmagic, buy the Cascade Control.
Personally, when controlling one card from a selection to the top of the deck, I believe a perfectly performed cascade control is 100 times more useful than any perfectly performed pass stated above in other posts. The noise caused by a riffle pass brings all attention to the hands. Spread pass is still just as flourishy as well as useful compared to the cascade control, but way WAY more angle sensitive. Classic pass depends 100% on misdirection to pull it off perfectly. Other variations of the pass use ridiculous methods of covering the actions with your hands.
Miller Cascade Control is pretty much angle proof, if performed perfectly. The break needed to perform the control can be held all day long before the cascade is performed, meaning it does not need to be performed instantly. As stated above hands can be burned all day long, if performed perfectly. You can also break parts of the cascade control down to use for other sleights. Example : http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/08/diagonal-palm-shift-tutorial/ Tony Chang uses the peek and pinky break for his DPS.
Granted I do not know all of the passes there are out in the magic world. From my experience, the Cascade Control is a better sleight than any of the passes talked about in this thread.
This is an added bonus for you guys. I got curious about how many different passes there might be and found this. http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ar/t166.htm. Check it out. It is kind of interesting.
Personally, when controlling one card from a selection to the top of the deck, I believe a perfectly performed cascade control is 100 times more useful than any perfectly performed pass stated above in other posts. The noise caused by a riffle pass brings all attention to the hands. Spread pass is still just as flourishy as well as useful compared to the cascade control, but way WAY more angle sensitive. Classic pass depends 100% on misdirection to pull it off perfectly. Other variations of the pass use ridiculous methods of covering the actions with your hands.
Miller Cascade Control is pretty much angle proof, if performed perfectly. The break needed to perform the control can be held all day long before the cascade is performed, meaning it does not need to be performed instantly. As stated above hands can be burned all day long, if performed perfectly. You can also break parts of the cascade control down to use for other sleights. Example : http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/08/diagonal-palm-shift-tutorial/ Tony Chang uses the peek and pinky break for his DPS.
Granted I do not know all of the passes there are out in the magic world. From my experience, the Cascade Control is a better sleight than any of the passes talked about in this thread.
This is an added bonus for you guys. I got curious about how many different passes there might be and found this. http://forums.singaporemagiccircle.com/ar/t166.htm. Check it out. It is kind of interesting.