Sigh...

[darosa.justin]

I really hate to amke another Ellusionist hating thread, but I thought this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I just watched their promotional video for the Street Magic Package here.

Now I ahve no problem with a magic bundle, as it of course, will generate more sales, and after all, they along with theory11 and all other amgic sites are a business.

However, the problem is that watching the video was like watching those adverts on TV selling excersize machines or wahtnot. How can they sell MAGIC as if they are any other product out there! There is absolutely no more respect for the ART and it's just something I really hate to see.

Any other views? How do you think magic should be advertised?

 

[Twozwozer]

Yeah, but wasnt that advert shot ages ago? I mean, all there ads are fine and they dont sound like those late night tv ad. "Wait dont call now, there more!"

I suppose you could change this topic from a E hater thread to a; "How should magic be advertised?"

Cheers, Tom

 

[Jakeh]

I thought the same when I first saw that.. it's pretty lame.

 

[mattlee]

The only thing remotely disturbing about that was seeing Max Maven endorse ellusionist... *SHUDDER*

Anything can be sold if the price is right, and ellusionist is a business.

From what I observe:
Ellusionist -> Mass market
T11 -> Niche

This recent ad campaign seems to be targeting newbies with disposable cash. T11 targets people who have magic knowledge (or at least THINK they know). Entirely different approach.

 

[Sleight_of_Hand]

its free market economy = dog eat dog = do what you have to do to beat the others = beat T11 .... SIMPLE REALLY.

They kill the art for money understand?

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Despite the methods used to sell them, Ellusionist has some great products. So does Penguin. But what sets Theory11 apart from the others is that you don't have to look hard for the good products as all the Theory11 products are really good.

 

[Twozwozer]

Despite the methods used to sell them, Ellusionist has some great products. So does Penguin. But what sets Theory11 apart from the others is that you don't have to look hard for the good products as all the Theory11 products are really good.

Deary me, you dont have to look hard on E. Why all the E bashing this week honestly. Who cares what they do? Who cares what T11 do? They all make good choices (most off the time, every company in the world has made mistakes, even T11, remember the guardians?)

Cheers, Tom

 

[iq92]

Has anyone ever tried their "iron-clad money back guarantee"? Of course, I've never given them back an item for a refund, but this guarantee is always open to being taken advantage of. You'll never know whether a customer is genuinely displeased with what they got, or only wants the info and the free deck of cards.

EDIT: Don't know why King Rising is included in such a bundle. After all, it's "a gem of an illusion" according to Brad, if I'm not mistaken. If you have it, you can confirm this.

 

[JDENredden]

Why does everyone dis Ellusionist. Most of you started out at E. Then went with the flow to here. In my opinion E has wicked ass tricks. As does T11. We are all apart of the same community here. We are all magicans. Just becouse T11 has a different marketing scheme dosnt make them the best. Gee some of the T11 artist used to be with E. My point being dont dis E they are great.

JDEN

 

[Twozwozer]

Why does everyone dis Ellusionist. Most of you started out at E. Then went with the flow to here. In my opinion E has wicked ass tricks. As does T11. We are all apart of the same community here. We are all magicans. Just becouse T11 has a different marketing scheme dosnt make them the best. Gee some of the T11 artist used to be with E. My point being dont dis E they are great.

JDEN

Thank you. Enough Said.

Cheers, Tom

 

[Ineski]

Ellusionist is not about advancing the art of magic. It's about making money. They don't care a crap what they do to magic and to the beginners. Brad Christian just needs to make sure that they can pop something out every now and then to keep his wallet fat.

The whole funding of the Celebracadabra was made to advertise E and get some people interested in ELLUSIONIST, not interested in magic. Then the newbie checks out their site and they have the "Ultimate Street Magic Package" there with that redicilous trailer and E hopes they will buy it. If they do then E's got a new customer and they are sucked into the advertisement to buy ****ty tricks and black decks that serve no purpose. They become kids running around the street and interrupting people and pretending to be David Blaine and call themselves "Street Magicians".

When I have time I'll write more about this.

 

[Steerpike]

I really hate to amke another Ellusionist hating thread,

But you will anyway.

However, the problem is that watching the video was like watching those adverts on TV selling excersize machines or wahtnot. How can they sell MAGIC as if they are any other product out there! There is absolutely no more respect for the ART and it's just something I really hate to see.

I'm failing to see how this ad is any different from the comic book ads that have been around for the better part of a century.

How do you think magic should be advertised?

Better question: why should I care? I'm not being cute. I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about. Anytime magic appears on TV, there's a group of people who start claiming it devalues magic, but they never explain how.

its free market economy = dog eat dog = do what you have to do to beat the others = beat T11 .... SIMPLE REALLY.

They kill the art for money understand?

Econ 101 as taught by people who skipped class to watch cartoons.

Ellusionist is not about advancing the art of magic. It's about making money. They don't care a crap what they do to magic and to the beginners. Brad Christian just needs to make sure that they can pop something out every now and then to keep his wallet fat.

It's real easy to say that when you don't have to confront someone face-to-face.

I'm willing to bet you've never shared so much as a hello, nevermind a conversation with anyone on the staff. What exactly are you basing your opinions on, and what is your proof?

The whole funding of the Celebracadabra was made to advertise E and get some people interested in ELLUSIONIST, not interested in magic.

So companies want people being interested in them as a company is the root of all evil?

Did you even watch the show?

Then the newbie checks out their site and they have the "Ultimate Street Magic Package" there with that redicilous trailer and E hopes they will buy it.

Congratulations, you have just figured out what advertising is for.

buy ****ty tricks

Shall I pass that along to Wayne Houchin, Danny Garcia, Justin Miller, and Nate Kranzo among every other contributor to the company?

and black decks that serve no purpose.

XCMers love the Tigers and Vipers. And I love using Ghosts.

So... what's that about no purpose?

They become kids running around the street and interrupting people and pretending to be David Blaine and call themselves "Street Magicians".

It's very easy to project your hang-ups onto people, but quite another to actually talk to them.

Posts like Ineski's are why these threads go nowhere. Frankly, they remind me a lot of comic book nerds (and I am one, so don't start) arguing about whether The Hulk could beat up Superman.

 

[Flyspazz]

Coming here and bashing other websites is old and gets us nowhere. I think voicing your opinion is important but you don’t offer any suggestions on what you would like to see or how to fix it. Just that you don’t like it.

I would suggest writing a constructive complaint with your issue and sending it to them since they are the only ones that can do anything about it. There’s no way a business that large is going to do everything correct in every customers eye. They have to do things to keep afloat. What ways would you do it?

 

[darosa.justin]

Steerpike- an ACTUAL example as to why threads like these go nowhere- because people like him would rather complain and argue other people's statements, without actually putting anything into making the discussion better.

Good job pikey!

"And you will anyway"- wow! What great input into the discussion!

As I said, I do not want this to be a bashing E thread.

I want a discussion about the marketing of magic. Yeah, Theory11 hypes stuff a lot, but they do not sell the products like it they are everyday things, which you can return anyday, and get a mega discount.

I believe magic should be less 'marketed'. Less hype, and certanly less Ellusionst-type advertising. It's an ART, and the more careless people get into it, the higher chance of it deteriorating. That's not to say people should not enter the art of magic, but only people that are willing to put their heart, mind, soul......blood and sweat into the art.

 

[Steerpike]

Steerpike- an ACTUAL example as to why threads like these go nowhere- because people like him would rather complain and argue other people's statements, without actually putting anything into making the discussion better.

Good job pikey!

Can you honestly tell me this thread was going anywhere great before I got here?

As I said, I do not want this to be a bashing E thread.

That is what it will inevitably become. There are too many people here with a vendetta to settle and they will choke out all other conversation. You gave these rabble an excuse to complain, and they will be all over that like ugly on ape.

It's an ART, and the more careless people get into it, the higher chance of it deteriorating.

How does that work?

That's not to say people should not enter the art of magic, but only people that are willing to put their heart, mind, soul......blood and sweat into the art.

By the logic you're using, the art of playing guitar has been destroyed by the schmucks on college campuses who learn how to play pop singles to impress girls at parties.

As to your blood, sweat, and tears, what about hobbyists? They don't make the same sacrifices and dedications that working professionals do because there's no reason to, not enough pay-off for the self-sacrifice. Are they somehow detrimental?

 

[imdan247]

Magic is ART, and art is a rare and beautiful thing...

...as it should be.


BTW Steerpike = E Moderator

 

[Steerpike]

Magic is ART, and art is a rare and beautiful thing...

...as it should be.

So it should only be embraced by the few?

BTW Steerpike = E Moderator

Ahoy there, Captain Obvious!

Now, mind telling me why you felt the need to bring it up?

 

[Flyspazz]

People have strong options on this because they want to protect our art, which is understandable.

Request….Steerpike, why don’t you use your writing skills to do an essay on this as this subject likes to rear its head frequently. If you could explain it out then if those that a different side wanted they would be able to put in there view. Just an idea.

 

[imdan247]

So it should only be embraced by the few?



Ahoy there, Captain Obvious!

Now, mind telling me why you felt the need to bring it up?

I think we can all agree on the fact that there are a lot of people that are doing magic that just shouldn't be.


And I thought I would let everyone know that you seem to have a personal vendetta (since you are an E moderator) and not just trying to systematically tear down peoples arguments.

Anything further, PM me, no need to drag this out.

 

[Steerpike]

Request….Steerpike, why don’t you use your writing skills to do an essay on this as this subject likes to rear its head frequently. If you could explain it out then most would see a different side and could be able to put in there view. Just an idea.

I've considered it, but I throw enough gasoline on the fire as it is by making fun of arguments that make no sense.

I'd prefer to wait for a time when things calm down a little bit and it seems safer to bring the issue up without worrying about a mob of howlers who skim the first post then launch into a rant without reading anything else.

Besides that, I don't think my voice carries as much weight around here as you think. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the support you and others have given me. I just get the impression I'm not exactly a popular guy for various reasons.