Sleight of hand excercises

[ntune]

Hello folks, I'm new here, sort of. As a kid, I used to train card tricks, but never had enough patience stick to it, which I now regret. So, after all these years, I decided go back to roots, and become good at it this time.

So, I want to learn to handle cards smoothly, like this guy, and master basic controls like break and false shuffles/cuts perfectly. What is the most detailed training DVD / book for mastering this art? I have Ellusionist crash course 1/2 and ninja 1/2 which are great, but is there any more detailed resource, so there's not question, if I'm doing some technique right or wrong.

I also wonder how frequently should I train? Few hours every day, or now and then? I fear if I keep break I forget, but if I train all the time I might exhaust. Also, should I try to learn one move at a time, or combine them all in a single pattern?

 

[Joey144]

Hi,

I strongly recommend you to check out Jason Englands video on "What to read" (and when to read it):

https://store.theory11.com/products/what-to-read-jason-england

it's free, so you can check it out immediatly. In agreement with Jason's recommendations: get yourself a copy of "Royal Road to Card Magic" and "Expert Card Technique". Those two books will get you familiar with the basic concepts in card magic and with the fundamental sleights.

I have Ellusionist crash course 1/2 and ninja 1/2 which are great, but is there any more detailed resource, so there's not question, if I'm doing some technique right or wrong.

Forget those tapes and learn the moves properly from the books Jason mentions in his video.

I also wonder how frequently should I train?

That's for you to decicde. I don't know how much time you have available. Of course you will improve faster the more you practice. But personally I never set any fixed training hours.

Also, should I try to learn one move at a time, or combine them all in a single pattern?

I can only speak for myself but I get a bit bored if I only practice one move for weeks/month. So I usually have three to four moves that I keep on rotation. I hope I could help you a bit.

Regards,
Joey

 

[BlindDeception]

Hmm, well it depends on what your current skill level is. If you like books I personally hate them, but they are good sources, I would recommend card college by roberto giobbi, and expert card technique. I disagree with Joey144, the DVD's are good. Ellusionist is a great place to learn sleights from! Darly has a great set called encyclopedia of card sleights, I have purchased all the volumes and this moves you from beginner to advanced if you take the time to learn all of it. I am a move monkey and just get such a great high from conquering all the hardest and most elegant card moves, if thats what you want to go for, check out Shin Lim's stuff. As for practice, I don't set a schedule I just always have cards in my hands and subconsciously practice. The more you practice the better! I combine the moves, I don't like spending hours upon end just doing one move, rather, I practice a set of 4 or 5 moves. Hope this helps!

 

[ntune]

Hmm, well it depends on what your current skill level is. If you like books I personally hate them, but they are good sources, I would recommend card college by roberto giobbi, and expert card technique. I disagree with Joey144, the DVD's are good. Ellusionist is a great place to learn sleights from! Darly has a great set called encyclopedia of card sleights, I have purchased all the volumes and this moves you from beginner to advanced if you take the time to learn all of it. I am a move monkey and just get such a great high from conquering all the hardest and most elegant card moves, if thats what you want to go for, check out Shin Lim's stuff. As for practice, I don't set a schedule I just always have cards in my hands and subconsciously practice. The more you practice the better! I combine the moves, I don't like spending hours upon end just doing one move, rather, I practice a set of 4 or 5 moves. Hope this helps!

Yeah, I love Ellusionist crash course and ninja series, as I learned the basics from those particular DVD's. I'm at the point, that I know all those moves and can do them like 80 % of time, but my card handling is still a bit sloppy, and I wouldn't do any performances yet, as I fear losing break, failing double lift, dropping cards etc.

How long do you usually practice single move or trick, until you have courage and skill to perform it to someone?

Can I also ask a technical question here so I don't have to make new thread?
How do you get clean, imperceptible pinky break from swing cut? Like you swing cut deck four times and get the break after first cut. Feels so f*****g hard. Is there some good exercises to train obtaining and maintaining break on different situations?

 

[Joey144]

Hmm, well it depends on what your current skill level is. If you like books I personally hate them, but they are good sources, I would recommend card college by roberto giobbi, and expert card technique. I disagree with Joey144, the DVD's are good. Ellusionist is a great place to learn sleights from! Darly has a great set called encyclopedia of card sleights, I have purchased all the volumes and this moves you from beginner to advanced if you take the time to learn all of it. I am a move monkey and just get such a great high from conquering all the hardest and most elegant card moves, if thats what you want to go for, check out Shin Lim's stuff. As for practice, I don't set a schedule I just always have cards in my hands and subconsciously practice. The more you practice the better! I combine the moves, I don't like spending hours upon end just doing one move, rather, I practice a set of 4 or 5 moves. Hope this helps!

I'd really love to see your card work. A self acclaimed move monkey that tackles only the hardest and most elegant moves, yet he recommends Ellusionist Daniel Madison DVD's and Shin Lim, surely gotta be some fine card work. Btw. I asked you a question in the other thread.

How do you get clean, imperceptible pinky break from swing cut? Like you swing cut deck four times and get the break after first cut. Feels so f*****g hard. Is there some good exercises to train obtaining and maintaining break on different situations?

Do you hold the deck correctly? A pinky break is supposed to divide the deck through the fleshy part of your pinky, not the entire pinky. It shouldn't be too difficult to obtain a break then.
Learning the pinky count helped me a lot with obtaining and maintaining pinky breaks.


Regards,
Joey

Edit:

Just to make sure we're on the same page I made a quick video. Is this what you were talking about?

[video=youtube;NmkSrudrF70]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmkSrudrF70[/video]

 

[ntune]

^ Yeah that's it. It just feels awkward to get a small break when I grab portion of the deck with very base of the thumb (so portion wont spread) and it's in different angle than rest of the deck.

Your card handling looks very smooth.

 

[Joey144]

^ Yeah that's it. It just feels awkward to get a small break when I grab portion of the deck with very base of the thumb (so portion wont spread) and it's in different angle than rest of the deck.

If it just feels awkward it will go away with practice. Like with every move, start slow. I mean really slow:

- Do the first swing cut
Pause and check if you're holding the packet in a proper mechanics grip (adjust if needed)

- Do the second swing cut, but only up to the point where you lift a small packet with your right index finger and kick it over slightly
Make sure that this "kicked over" packet is aligned with the packet you're holding in your left hand. If you aligned the "kicked over" packet, you can slide the remaining right hand packet out of the gap. This gap is maintained then by the fleshy part of your pinky.

- Now you can do as many swing cuts as you want to complete the sequence

I hope those instructions were clear enough. If not I can do a short video tomorrow. The important part is that you start slow. It might feel stupid but just trust me here.

Your card handling looks very smooth.

Thank you.

Regards,
Joey

Edit:

so portion wont spread

If you're having problems with the cards spreading try an older deck of cards. Don't apply too much pressure with your left thumb as you receive the packets. If you clamp down on the packet too much, the cards will spread.

 

[ntune]

Aha, decreasing pressure solved the problem

 

[BlindDeception]

Im sorry for the late response I was busy getting my act ready for a teen magic championship im doing haha! But to answer the question, I personally use a step! Basic, once I swing cut the packet, the packet thats in biddle grip, if you are right handed the packet in your right hand, I move it slightly upwards and then drop it on top of the other packet, they will be mis-alligned, from there i just use my thumb to square up and then get a break. As for my card work, I do recommned those DVD's because the teaching is good for those who find it hard to learn through text (such as I) Shin Lim to me is one of my favorite magicians. I love that his moves are challenging , I haven't really found anyone else other than him and Zach that have proposed a challenge to me when it came to learning a move. As far as practice goes for moves, I put in a minimum of 6-8 hours a day, sometimes a lot more. Why? I want to be the best I can possibly be, not for me, but because my audience deserves it. For performance at least give it a day or two ( depends on how hard whatever your doing is, so it varies) if your trick is super easy then perform it asap once you feel you have it down. Always be mindful of angles. Practice until you can do it with your eyes closed, I see way too many magicians today performing and when they do a sleight they lose eye contact and look down at the deck, DONT DO THAT! It also depends on how long you practice, for example, If I was learning a routine idk lets say, Shin Split ( I just like shin lim sorry lol) It took me 4 days to learn fluently, BUT I practiced up to 30 hours or more, just because I personally have a desperation to perform when I learn a new trick. But it could take somebody 2 weeks to learn, but they didnt practice as much as I did if you see what I mean?

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me! Im going to upload a series on youtube soon for move-monkeys and just fun card stuff! Be on the look out if you like that! Hope I helped!

 

[Joey144]

I do recommned those DVD's because the teaching is good for those who find it hard to learn through text (such as I)

I love that his moves are challenging, I haven't really found anyone else other than him and Zach that have proposed a challenge to me when it came to learning a move.

So you dismiss books because you find them hard to learn from, yet you talk about how much you love challenges?

To quote you again:

I am a move monkey and just get such a great high from conquering all the hardest and most elegant card moves, if thats what you want to go for, check out Shin Lim's stuff.

How can you give a beginner such an advise? You're telling him that Shin Lim has the most elegant and hardest card moves? How can you even make such a claim after you admitted that you don't read books?

You love challenges? You haven't found anyone that put a challenge to you? You love tackling the most elegant and hardest moves? Start reading

- Drawing Room Deceptions by Guy Hollingworth $40
- By Forces Unseen by Ernest Earick $35
- Classic Magic of Larry Jennings by Larry Jennings $40

 

[ntune]

^ I think same as BlindDeception considering books vs videos. I don't like learning from books because there is always room for interpretation error. I just struggle to grasp pictures and have a hard time focus on instructions (or reading in general), where as video showing the move from multiple angles is idiot proof and fast way to learn the exact move. Of course there are some amateurish video tutorials in the contrast to books, which often happens to be true information. But they just aren't for everyone. And I think he likes the challenge of learning the move, not trying to understand the move.

 

[Joey144]

[...]where as video showing the move from multiple angles is idiot proof and fast way to learn the exact move.

How do you know that it's the "exact" move if you didn't read the original source? Personally, I'd rather like to learn a move right instead of fast.

I just found it funny that BlindDeception gives advice on "the most difficult and elegant card moves" if the only sources he knows are Ellusionist DVD's and ShinLim/Zach Mueller downloads. If those are the first sources that come to your mind when you think about fine card magic than I'd really advise you to read a few books (hence I recommended three books on the first page).

Just wanted to give you my opinion. Good luck and have fun on your journey through card magic.

Regards,
Joey

 

[ntune]

Okay, I just checked Card College 1 and I like those "check points" to refresh my memory about certain moves. I think I need to d... get other parts too. I also remembered, that I own a copy of SW Erdnase's "Expert at the Card Table" collecting dust. It's just so damn boring book, containing impossible techniques like bottom deal.

Couple more random questions, so I don't have to make a new thread:
1) Is there some practical way to pick cards from hard surface without sliding to the edge or bending the deck? It's one of the hardest obstacles I have encountered so far. When I try to perform Zarrow shuffle, I sometimes have hard time lifting the deck even from soft pad.
2) I have trained card spinning and shooting for couple days. For some reason I can do it perfectly before going to sleep. I think that I have mastered it and dream doing it tomorrow, but at morning I couldn't do it anymore.

 

[TeeDee]

Okay, I just checked Card College 1 and I like those "check points" to refresh my memory about certain moves. I think I need to d... get other parts too. I also remembered, that I own a copy of SW Erdnase's "Expert at the Card Table" collecting dust. It's just so damn boring book, containing impossible techniques like bottom deal.

Couple more random questions, so I don't have to make a new thread:
1) Is there some practical way to pick cards from hard surface without sliding to the edge or bending the deck? It's one of the hardest obstacles I have encountered so far. When I try to perform Zarrow shuffle, I sometimes have hard time lifting the deck even from soft pad.
2) I have trained card spinning and shooting for couple days. For some reason I can do it perfectly before going to sleep. I think that I have mastered it and dream doing it tomorrow, but at morning I couldn't do it anymore.

You know that any advice anyone gives you on here will be in text format, don't you? Like a book.

 

[ntune]

Sure. It would be useless to make video for these small tips, when you can answer them with one sentence. It's different than learning a complex move. Did you even read my post or don't understand it? I don't dislike books or text/speak instructions, I just like videos/live teaching better.

 

[TeeDee]

Sure. It would be useless to make video for these small tips, when you can answer them with one sentence. It's different than learning a complex move. Did you even read my post or don't understand it? I don't dislike books or text/speak instructions, I just like videos/live teaching better.

Yes I did read it. You said:

I think same as BlindDeception considering books vs videos. I don't like learning from books because there is always room for interpretation error.

So, I took that to mean that you think the same as BlindDeception. Regarding books, he said "I personally hate them", so I inferred that you also are claiming to "hate them". I took "I don't like learning from books" as meaning that you dislike books as "dislike" can be used as a synonym for "I don't like".

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you meant, but I've only got the words you use to go on as clues to what you're thinking.

 

[BlindDeception]

Do not misunderstand, I do not like books, this is true I do not deny it. But I never said that I disregard them. I just prefer learning through video. Also I clearly stated " if thats what you want to go for." He doesn't have too. I love challenges but just don't like books. Shin Lim has won fism twice, IBM, and world teen magic championship and he learned from youtube, isn't that ironic?

 

[ntune]

Pls give me help with clipshift. Why I can't execute the move without card touching the deck, making loud noise? I clip the card properly, but can't get it around the deck without pushing the deck with my index finger and sliding the card against the edge.

 

[ntune]

Pls give me help with clipshift. Why I can't execute the move without card touching the deck, making loud noise? I clip the card properly, but can't get it around the deck without pushing the deck with my index finger and sliding the card against the edge.

At last I was managed to do it, without card touching the deck. I thought I wouldn't be able to do it, but now I suddenly just did it.

 

[Ziad Khayat]

Give up. Forget about the clipshift for a few years until you have really good card skills. You'll save a lot of trouble that way. I'd also say start out with the royal road to card magic. I learned from that as a kid and it's an invaluable resource. Paul Wilson also has a DVD on it. Second if you don't like learning from books..... Get over it. Some of the best materiel is printed and you won't be a good magician without reading the classics. Also born to perform card magic by Oz Pearlman is supposed to be great for begginners.