I was just wondering since people don't really talk about it much. Also, just a point of interest: http://www.dananddave.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4612
What do you guys think of the dananddave forum?
- Thread starter dragon521
- Start date
I think all the hate between the different forums is hilarious!
EVERY forum has good points and bad points. the only people who spoil it are the people who complain and say one forum is better than another.
I wasn't heavily into magic when there wasnt an online community to converse with people and get all the up to date tricks which come out, but i can see why all of the ol' timers hate all this forums stuff, they can see that the people who are arguing are like spoilt children. The people who ***** and complain should sit back and think about how lucky they that they have place like this to even have the honor of being able to talk with some of the legends of the magic world so easily.
If it wasn't for places like this they would all be sitting in their homes still doing the coin from ear trick to their family.
EVERY forum has good points and bad points. the only people who spoil it are the people who complain and say one forum is better than another.
I wasn't heavily into magic when there wasnt an online community to converse with people and get all the up to date tricks which come out, but i can see why all of the ol' timers hate all this forums stuff, they can see that the people who are arguing are like spoilt children. The people who ***** and complain should sit back and think about how lucky they that they have place like this to even have the honor of being able to talk with some of the legends of the magic world so easily.
If it wasn't for places like this they would all be sitting in their homes still doing the coin from ear trick to their family.
THis is a useless thread. People have always been in that site and talked about it. It's one of the best around. 100000000000000000000000x better than E.
D&D is a great site,
Im not on there as much as I would have liked, but when I am it looks to be a great place.
Lots of pretty true comments there about T11, but in most cases its really not under the control of the owners of T11, its up to us the community to try and stop the onslaught of constant crap threads, stupid posts etc.
Lets all work together and build this place to also be great
.
Im not on there as much as I would have liked, but when I am it looks to be a great place.
Lots of pretty true comments there about T11, but in most cases its really not under the control of the owners of T11, its up to us the community to try and stop the onslaught of constant crap threads, stupid posts etc.
Lets all work together and build this place to also be great
.I just read that thread on dan&dave forums, and I found it very funny. They basically rehash of all the old arguments that every hobby/activities communities have gone through for many years. Their fundamental problem is that their hobby/interest is changing, and they don't like it. They don't like that their are new people with different ideas about cardistry. Frankly, I would be ashamed of my lack of self-awareness if I were on that forum.
All communities that experience growth also experience change. There are better ways to deal with it than posting a Neanderthal-level comment like "They're ruining our sport!"
Now, I'm not claiming that T11 is perfect. Obviously there are improvements that can be made, some mentioned in that dan&dave thread, but it is unhelpful to simply insult people.
All communities that experience growth also experience change. There are better ways to deal with it than posting a Neanderthal-level comment like "They're ruining our sport!"
Now, I'm not claiming that T11 is perfect. Obviously there are improvements that can be made, some mentioned in that dan&dave thread, but it is unhelpful to simply insult people.
My thoughts (even though I'm not a member)....
For the first comment, It's BS. Plain and simple. I guess they consider "this art form" use of repetitive cuts. Inventing 100's of new cuts and nothing else isn't doing s**t for cardistry (or as I call it XCM). "We do it better too" Compared to who? Dissing on other communities ain't moving the art forward.
As for the second comment. I can see who they're trying to market to.
Isn't XCM all about new cuts and stuff? I'm no expert, but that sounds like saying "inventing hundreds of reveals does nothing for the magic community".
The second comment is also about a deck of cards, not their XCM DVDs. Lots of Playboy readers probably play poker, and lots of poker players buy custom card decks that are originally made for the magic community.
Some of you, please remove your hostile tone. It's only going to encourage more animosity and flame-wars...
Well....
I think that the T11 forums probably have more "noobs" (more like, "Newbies") in their forums than any other forum out there. But you know what? You guys were all once noobs. How would you have felt if you say threads ridiculing you guys?
If anyone new here needs any help with any card-magic-related. I'm here to help.
Ellusionist:
I don't know how someone can say that the E forums suck. I mean, come on. The people over there have such sophisticated minds and help you with almost anything! I've never been dissapointed with advice given to me.
However, they're a bit agressive sometimes. Mods like to give out "tough love" and harsh answers to slighty negative posts, delete posts and threads without any real justification and no notification, and if you complain about something E-related, you have no reputation anymore. It's a bit saddening....
They sell some great decks and beginner DvDs (that originally, never showed credit to where it was dued) which as gotten a lot of us to where we are today.
But any negative review is almost always censored out due because things like spelling errors and negativity.... and the fact that they're complaing about an E product...
Theory 11:
Theory 11 was created by artists, FOR artists. They understand are needs so they try to shower us with 1-on-1 videos, great decks that actually AREN'T color-inversions of the same Bicycle-Rider-Back design we're all used to, and great DvDs such as The Triology.
The forums also has a much more sense of atmosphere and positivity. People are nicer and more civil. Very loose, too.
However, some people here are more biased and really quite rude towards topics surrounding magic companies.
Also, the caliber isn't very high, in comparison. There's a lot of really weird threads like "Deck Superstitions" and "Who's your favorite magician" and "I can do a WERM!!!" Threads like these are weeded out of E's forums and I'm clad because they're clutter....
Moderation needs to be tighter.
Dan and Dave's Forums:
Well, the only thread I saw in those forums is the one posted in the beggining of this thread and might I say I'm dissapointed....
Why people complain about these forums is beyond me. You don't like a certain forum? Don't go to it. It seems like they do it for attention or something.... Not for positive change.
What people REALLY need to do is to take advantage of the goods things in ALL forums and shouldn't haggle with the bad.
One thing I don't like about E and T11, specifically, is the advertising. I mean, come on. "Underground Magic Center?" Almost any google search involving words such as "tricks, magic, etc," You two companies show up at the top.
What's sooo underground about that? Lol.
It also seems like you guys are trying to reach for the wallets of the younger generation. And don't tell me that's not correct. Look at the ads!!! "Street" "Get noticed" "coooooooooooooooooooooooooooool" "BLACK"
I think the best communities are the ones that are above the ground; at lectures, conventions, performances, groups, etc.
I like talking with a magician-buddy because I know we're actually going to make some progress in our magic instead of talking about stupid things like "What's your favorite Ace, and I had a dream about Brad Christian last night (too much fanning powder)."
I'll talk more about this later...
..:Z:..
Well....
I think that the T11 forums probably have more "noobs" (more like, "Newbies") in their forums than any other forum out there. But you know what? You guys were all once noobs. How would you have felt if you say threads ridiculing you guys?
If anyone new here needs any help with any card-magic-related. I'm here to help.
Ellusionist:
I don't know how someone can say that the E forums suck. I mean, come on. The people over there have such sophisticated minds and help you with almost anything! I've never been dissapointed with advice given to me.
However, they're a bit agressive sometimes. Mods like to give out "tough love" and harsh answers to slighty negative posts, delete posts and threads without any real justification and no notification, and if you complain about something E-related, you have no reputation anymore. It's a bit saddening....
They sell some great decks and beginner DvDs (that originally, never showed credit to where it was dued) which as gotten a lot of us to where we are today.
But any negative review is almost always censored out due because things like spelling errors and negativity.... and the fact that they're complaing about an E product...
Theory 11:
Theory 11 was created by artists, FOR artists. They understand are needs so they try to shower us with 1-on-1 videos, great decks that actually AREN'T color-inversions of the same Bicycle-Rider-Back design we're all used to, and great DvDs such as The Triology.
The forums also has a much more sense of atmosphere and positivity. People are nicer and more civil. Very loose, too.
However, some people here are more biased and really quite rude towards topics surrounding magic companies.
Also, the caliber isn't very high, in comparison. There's a lot of really weird threads like "Deck Superstitions" and "Who's your favorite magician" and "I can do a WERM!!!" Threads like these are weeded out of E's forums and I'm clad because they're clutter....
Moderation needs to be tighter.
Dan and Dave's Forums:
Well, the only thread I saw in those forums is the one posted in the beggining of this thread and might I say I'm dissapointed....
Why people complain about these forums is beyond me. You don't like a certain forum? Don't go to it. It seems like they do it for attention or something.... Not for positive change.
What people REALLY need to do is to take advantage of the goods things in ALL forums and shouldn't haggle with the bad.
One thing I don't like about E and T11, specifically, is the advertising. I mean, come on. "Underground Magic Center?" Almost any google search involving words such as "tricks, magic, etc," You two companies show up at the top.
What's sooo underground about that? Lol.
It also seems like you guys are trying to reach for the wallets of the younger generation. And don't tell me that's not correct. Look at the ads!!! "Street" "Get noticed" "coooooooooooooooooooooooooooool" "BLACK"
I think the best communities are the ones that are above the ground; at lectures, conventions, performances, groups, etc.
I like talking with a magician-buddy because I know we're actually going to make some progress in our magic instead of talking about stupid things like "What's your favorite Ace, and I had a dream about Brad Christian last night (too much fanning powder)."
I'll talk more about this later...
..:Z:..
All in all, remember -- it's not the forums that dislike eachother, it's just some members from the forums that may dislike eachother. Dananddave.com and the forums there are great overall.
This message isn't pointed at anyone in particular, but is just a general statement.
-Vince
This message isn't pointed at anyone in particular, but is just a general statement.
-Vince
This is a great post Z! It's easy to forget at some point of time we didn't know everything. I learn something new everyday. Good points
Shane
I don't think they suck I have actually been a member there for a couple of years under the username DEADGHOST, I think their a good forum and I stop by there every now and then I just prefer it here.
Shane
After i saw this, i felt like i should gut you with a chainsaw.. but let's stay formal. ;-)
Well, assuming that you are HL freak.. as mentioned in the sig, you probably aren't using dnd's cut or bought their products.
well.. the world of cardistry is actually being built by the members, not 1 or 2 people, but theory11 is not where the most helpful tips are for cardistry, the Dn was, before it was consumed by T11. after Dn was practically deserted, all the members moved around to the3c, theory11, and dananddave. Honestly, theory11 does contain quite a lot of previous Dn members, but they're no longer as dedicated as they were, guess why? probably too tired to look at the post that's saying 'i can do werm!' I gotta say in dananddave, the dedicated members are actually more active. And one more thing. you guys realize that the only product related to the xcm in theory11 is trilogy, right? and if you think theory11 is contributing the most for the xcm, then sure enough, the world of xcm is dying.
i'm not really against theory11's marketing, because people who experienced ellusionist's marketing should be already experienced to be aware of the same marketing ploy, be aware of it no matter which other sites are trying to pull it off.(since there aren't just one.) and these days, people are willing to do anything for the money. I'm not saying that theory11's product sucks, but does people say that the tally's are better than guardians anymore? probably not, because it's so freakin hyped up to the point where everyone conforms and just think they are better than any cards availiable, just like brown wynns. I handled guardians and brown wynns because my friend's a collector, and they are honestly no better than tally's. remember. it's not what you do it with, it's what you do with it.
wow, i wrote a freakin long essay.....
Best regard,
Sybileno