What makes a beginner... what makes a pro?

Hey guys. I want to know everyone's opinions on what defines a beginner magician, an amateur magician, and a professional magician.

Personally, even though I have been doing magic for around a year, I still consider myself a beginner. I only know a couple of sleights and tricks.

What does it actually mean to "perform professionally?"

EDIT: Oh yeah, can anyone tell me some books or DVDs to learn forces? I only know 1, and the classic force to me is rather risky.
 
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Oct 18, 2007
52
0
Germany
öhmm.. 1 jear one force .. =S id do magic and card stuff for a jear now you can find some in youtube haha...

i would consider myself also a beginner i can do most of E card stuff trying to combinate them to make "own" tricks xD ...

i think when you have all basics down like all the E stuff or so you can call yourself intermidate ... im still beginner so.. :)
 
Oct 12, 2007
546
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Orlando Fl
That's a hard question, my besr guess is a pro, is someone who is famous, an amatuere is someone who is just a little worst than the pro, but isn't famous, and a beginner is a beginner, but in sports you have to meet some kind of requirements and pass some kind of a trial to become a pro, an I don't know any requirements or trials in magic, the besr person to answer this is a pro
 
Nov 19, 2007
76
0
MD
To learn forces, you should check out the DVD '40 Way to Force a Card.'

And I guess to 'perform professionally' it would mean that you actually do shows and whatnot, or create and sell tricks, but that topic can be debated to death.
 
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Oct 24, 2007
314
0
I would consider myself a amateur by my definition of the three sections.

Professional- Magic all the time, Paid to do shows, No other jobs.
Amateur- Magic on the brain all the time, Sometimes paid to do shows, Maybe another job.
Beginner- Someone just starting out that hasn't learned over 20 tricks or doesn't feel comfortable performing for strangers.

Tyler
 

TKH

Aug 31, 2007
491
0
Wisconsin
Its not as black and white, there are many many shades of gray. Dai Vernon, If I recall correctly, did not want to amek his living off of magic because then it becomes a business and not a hobby, or passion. He was not a pro, pros are proffesionals. They make their living off of magic, whether it is creating effects to sell to magicians or performing.
There are many other categories, semi-proffesional or also known as part-time proffessional is a person who performs and makes a good amount of money from it, but it is not their primary source of income. And then their is hobbyists/amateurs, and Collectors.

That was the business side of magic, the easy part to distinguish.

Beginners in my mind do mostly cards and coins, and don't consider stand-up or stage and if they do, they do very bland or copied presentations, which because they have not the experience to create their own is very acceptable.
A level in between would probably be intermediate they have seen enough magic of the time that they want to start looking back and learning magic of the past to find lsot methods and improve on them to make it their own. They have their own routines which are made for them, not to be sold or for showing off to other magicians. They have definately started looking at what they have and have made quite a few good routines that they have made quite entertaining. They have also found their character.
The advanced level is someone who has plenty of experience performing and now is helping others learn the craft.
 
That's a hard question, my besr guess is a pro, is someone who is famous, an amatuere is someone who is just a little worst than the pro, but isn't famous, and a beginner is a beginner, but in sports you have to meet some kind of requirements and pass some kind of a trial to become a pro, an I don't know any requirements or trials in magic, the besr person to answer this is a pro

A profesional is someone who has a full job of magic and only magic. Being famous dosen't mean your a pro. Amatueres are not worse, they might be even better, but they are to young and probably have a part time job in a restaurant or bar. A begginer is someone who is starting magic and has no job. Probably still in school. Also in sports there is no trial or pass. The only way to be a pro is to, actally it depends on the sport. If football and basketball you need to get drafted and sign a contract. If golf or tennis than I'm clueless.:confused:
 
Nov 2, 2007
246
0
Norway
beginner is someone who just started or doesnt have much experience

amatuer is someone who does it for money on the side of his real job

pro is living on doing magic.
 
Oct 20, 2007
10
0
In my opinion:

beginner: someone who is still learning the basics, still learning how to control a crowd. May have a bunch of tricks but has not mastered any of them of them. Does not do magic for money. Buys everything that looks flashy.

intermediate: has many basic moves down, no longer limits himself to pre made tricks, inventing his own, and has many tricks mastered. May do magic for money but not as his primary source of income. Can control an audience pretty well. Dedicates a lot of time to improving, rather than learning new tricks.

professional: magic is his life, income and he spends a lot of time perfecting all of it, does the same tricks over and over for different people, and is knowledgeable in all fields of the art. Has total control over an audience.

although one probably can classify most people into one of those branches i feel that they are to general, for there may be many exceptions, as someone who is as good as a proffesional but does not really do magic proffesionally.
 
Nov 28, 2007
218
1
D.C. Area
Beginner - someone who is starting in magic. i would guess up to a 2 year or 3 year range.

amateur - someone who doesnt perform so much and their showmanship and performance isnt in the WOW factor.

Pro - Perform on a daily basis, in the WOW factor, is recognized.

professional performer - someone who has big shows and whatnot.
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
Good heavens.

Beginner should be fairly self-explanatory. Throughout the whole process there's no hard and fast dividing lines; I stopped thinking of myself as a beginner when I realised I was familiar with the territory of card magic; terminology, techniques, history, well-known effects and so on. When I see that a trick is a variation of Marlo's "Miracle Aces" and I know what to expect, that makes me feel that I have moved beyond "a beginner".

Amateur comes from the French and means simply "to love". If you are passionate about your magic, you are, in the most literal sense of the word, an amateur. This covers everything from beginner to professional in my book! A more helpful term might be "intermediate". I think that it's in this phase that you really find your feet in magic, when you start to select tricks that work for you, that appeal and suit your style. You build a repertoire and practise it.

Professional is typically used to describe someone who earns money from *whatever*. Also associated with those who have a qualification in *whatever*. So if you're out there performing for money, you're a professional magician. If it's not a primary source of income, perhaps you may be more comfortable with the term "semi-professional", but I wouldn't put it on my advertising. I work through an agent and take every gig I get, which isn't enough to earn a living, so I rely on my other streams of income as well. However, my clients get a professional service so that's how I market myself.

By the by, I make a distinction between professional magicians (paid performers) and professional creators (people who make and sell magic tricks). There are those who do both, but more and more there appears to be a clear divide and I think it's important to acknowledge that, especially with the trend towards attempted creativity this situation has produced.

There's another category; celebrity. Well known to the population in general. There's industry celebrities (Dai Vernon is a prime example that we can all get behind) and then the real big cheeses - David Copperfield, Paul Daniels, David Blaine, Criss Angel (although less so in the UK), Penn and Teller, Houdini...the guys that everyone has heard of.

It's worth noting that being a professional doesn't necessarily mean being "good". I've seen quite a few wince-worthy attempts by professional magicians, but that doesn't make them anything other than what they are.
 
Dec 28, 2007
54
0
I think its fair to say that a pro/professional magician is someone who is making a living purely out of magic.

A Semi Pro/professional is some one who gets paid for performing but does not rely on magic as an income.

Amateur is a magician who gets little or no money for performing. I have met amateurs that are far better than some pros though so its not a relection of level of skill.

A beginner, we are all beginners. Magic is a journey not a destination.

The question is what makes a pro.
One quality I have noticed in the pros I have met is that their routines are completely mastered. The sleights, patter, psychology, and misdirection are intricately knitted together to make a strong and entertaining routine. There is no excess patter (rambling) and the minium of sleights to achieve the effect required (simplicity).
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
As I stated in my post inches above this one, there's no quality control for professional magicians - there's the good guys and the really, really bad guys, with everything in between.

You answered your own question in the first line of your post: "A pro magician is someone who is making a living out of magic". Job done!

I do not agree with the oh-so-humble "we are all beginners". I'm sure as hell not.
 
Dec 28, 2007
54
0
"We are all beginners" is pertinent to the fact we are continuously learning (or should be).
In my profession I spent 11 years at college and university. Guess what, I’m still learning after 18 years in industry.

If you watch Hit the Road, Paul Wilson actually says how he changed a routine to simplify the handling due to the advice of another magician. The routine William by David Stone was named after the guy who spotted a much easier handling of the original routine.
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
Just because we're always learning - which of course is true - doesn't mean that the label "beginner" is appropriate to everybody.

Your examples are not really representative of your point either. When constructing an effect, you look for the best solution to a given problem, and one of the criteria to consider is ease of execution. This has nothing to do with beginner or not - skilled or not - it is simply good choreography. If someone else spots an improvement in this area, then you've learned something for sure, but that doesn't make you a beginner either.

There's always something to learn, to improve on, to perfect. However, I would imagine that in general terms, someone who's been going at it for 18 years - not to mention the 11 at college and uniersity - might well have an advantage when it comes to expanding their knowledge than the guy who's in his first year. Put another way, I can pick up a new routine much better than I could when I first got started, because I'm familiar with the ground now, because my hands know how to do what I want them to do, because I've probably got a point of reference from something I've seen before. Learning yes, beginner, no.
 
Sep 1, 2007
662
2
And to be fair, I understand what you're getting at. People categorise beginners as learners,and the statement "we're all beginners" is a reminder that we should all be learning. It does make sense.

The source of my strong opinion on the subject comes from the over-use of the "we're all just beginners" soundbite in the martial arts...it just really winds my clock when a very, very accomplished martial artist trots this out, whether its an attempt to appear humble and wise or to encourage actual beginners I don't know, but it just sounded smug to me. Which is exactly why I never say it to MY students!

By the by, what do you do that took 11 years of college and university? That's some SERIOUS flight time!
 
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