What Makes a Magician?

[MitchellStafiej]

What makes a magician?

Is it a magician someone who knows a few tricks? Or someone who truly respects the art of magic?

Discuss and therefore learn.

Mitchell

 

[AllanLuu]

A magician, to me, is somone that respects the art and respects it enough that they will follow the rules of magic (ex. never tell a secret to a trick, practice till you can perform an effect blindfolded etc.)

 

[KeenanG]

Hmm..

Hard question to answer...

To me, a magician isn't someone who knows a few tricks and doesn't tell anyone.

I don't know if I even have a definition for a magician...

Here is the definition from dictionary.com:

1: one skilled in magic; especially : sorcerer
2: one who performs tricks of illusion and sleight of hand

Do I agree with this? A bit, yes. I mean, to be a magician, it would be fairly obvious that you would have to be able to perform a form of magic, or magical entertainment.

To be a true magician, I think much more into it than most... I would say it would take years upon years upon years to call yourself such. Blackstone Senior... A magician. He devoted most of his life to magic. He is someone I would call a magician. Copperfield, etc.

If you search magician, through Wikipedia, and click the link that says magician... The first picture you see is of Jean Eugène Robert-Houdin; the first modern magician. He is also someone I would call a magician. He makes magic for his audience. He didn't "trick them", he didn't "create a puzzle" for them, but he created magic for them.

How?

I cannot answer that question... Maybe in about 30-40 years I can, but not now...

Hopefully that answered the question...

Keenan

 

[harapanong]

Let's not get too over "magic is so sacred and respectful and noble"...

Magicians, hustlers, tricksters, conmen, frauds... all base their living off doing tricks and tricking people.

But you see... people enjoy being tricked by the magician and not anyone else.

Magic, is the art of deception. That's where the essence of magic is. The tricks. Tricks are what makes a magician, a magician. It's what makes magic unique from all other arts.

Presentation is just how you convey your art to others, not the essence.

- harapan. magic!

 

[KeenanG]

Let's not get too over "magic is so sacred and respectful and noble"...

Magicians, hustlers, tricksters, conmen, frauds... all base their living off doing tricks and tricking people.

But you see... people enjoy being tricked by the magician and not anyone else.

Magic, is the art of deception. That's where the essence of magic is. The tricks. Tricks are what makes a magician, a magician. It's what makes magic unique from all other arts.

Presentation is just how you convey your art to others, not the essence.

- harapan. magic!

So you are categorizing yourself, as a "magician", with hustlers, tricksters, conmen, frauds...

I see why you think the way you do.

I've been thinking... a lot on the subject. I have realized, that magic isn't all that unique. I mean yes, the effects and performers are completely unique. But the showmanship, theatrics, etc. are not all unique. It is a mixture of many different arts, which would make magic a craft of some sorts.

Sorry to get off topic.

You just stated that the effect is the essence of magic. Tricks DO NOT make the magician.

The magician makes the tricks. (Not literally.)

ANYONE can perform an certain routine. NOT everyone can make it magic. That is where "magicians" get seperated from "artists".

Keenan

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Let's not get too over "magic is so sacred and respectful and noble"...

Magicians, hustlers, tricksters, conmen, frauds... all base their living off doing tricks and tricking people.

But you see... people enjoy being tricked by the magician and not anyone else.

Magic, is the art of deception. That's where the essence of magic is. The tricks. Tricks are what makes a magician, a magician. It's what makes magic unique from all other arts.

Presentation is just how you convey your art to others, not the essence.

- harapan. magic!

I agree with Keenan, I mean, categorizing us with the likes of frauds shows a lot about how you think about magic. Magicians don't make their living off of tricking people, they make their living off of entertaining people, entertaining them using magic. Magic is deceptive, the effects are deceptive, but the magician is not deceptive. He simply entertains the audience to the fullest extent. Without presentation to distinguish who the performer is, your performance would be lost.

The magician makes the magician, the magician controls the "tricks", the tricks don't control the magician.

Mitchell

 

[harapanong]

Can't deny much... that is how I think about magic.

Got me wrong there, however: Tricks obviously don't "control" a magician. The magician is living, tricks are the product of human minds; so obviously we create the tricks and use them.

What I meant was that tricks is what makes magic unique from any other art. Music is about sound, dance about movement, painting about colours and drawings... magic is about tricks. Secrets. Fooling people. At least that's what I think.

Often we think too highly of ourselves and magic as "we create a unique impossible experience for the audience, we are merchants of dreams, we are creators of miracles"... when in actual fact, we know we aren't levitating, we aren't reading minds, we aren't really "dematerialising" coins... We as magicians simply think of ways, creative ways to make the impossible SEEM to happen in front of everyone's eyes... thus the "trick".

I used to think that magicians entertain people for a living.. but no. Entertainment value is extremely important to make a trick become magic, no doubt. That's the importance of presentation. That's why we tell jokes, tell stories, add meaning to what we do. Presentation is the way to convey the trick, to make "tricks" transform into "magic".

But more importantly, magicians do tricks and not tell jokes. Think about it this way... I am a comedy magician. I do card tricks and tell jokes along with it and the audience loves it. Now if I take away the "jokes" part... you are left with only tricks. Mere tricks that are like puzzles. Not magic.

But now if I take away the "tricks" part... what are you left with? Jokes. High entertainment value, but which is more "magic" like? The tricks, or the jokes? Both aren't magic exactly, but I believe "tricks" is more important to the magician than the presentation... Because that's what makes a magician, a magician.

Presentation is important to a magician to make him different from a trickster... without presentation, it's not magic.

True, but the most rudimentary thing magicians do are still tricks... deception and lies. It's just we present it in a nice way that everyone enjoys it. That's why I prefer categorizing magician with tricksters and conmen. We all do the same thing: tricks. But while people hate conmen, people love magicians.

Because we present tricks well. With the audience in mind.

- harapan. magic!

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Let me ask you something? Would consider a beautiful art piece or play "magical"? It doesn't contain any tricks nor is the audience fooled.

Mitchell

 

[conjure_pitch]

What makes a magician?

Well when a man and a woman love eachother.......sorry. I had to do it.


Anyways, A magician, in my opinion, is one who knows a skill very extensively, respects the art hes involved (or she) and can always leave you awestruck in some way or another.

Notice I left the definition open to people who don't do magic, really talented guitar players, in my opinion, make magic before my eyes, as do any handiworkers that can really impress me. From card flourishers to pen flippers to glowstick manipulators (yes theres such thing, Youtube it.)

If you can impress me with an art, you can likely be a magician to some degree.

A real magician, lke a creator of magical effects, is someone who can do magic very well, respects the art and can easily leave me awestruck in any situation.

 

[harapanong]

Mr Stafeij: No.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Icy]

I agree with most opinion here, but I am in favour of harapan's view.

To me, a magician is simply someone who do tricks to entertain people.

In that sense I agree with Harapan.

But that doesn't mean my opinion is different from most people here. In fact its quite similar.

To me, what most people here define as magician is just a good magician.

A good magician wouldn't stop at the level of trickery. A good painter don't stop at just creating images. There is something more than that.

So someone who just do tricks is a "not so good" magician. Bad magicians are reserved for those who can't even successfully do a proper trick. But they are still magicians.

So may be we should change the title of the thread to: what makes a good magician?

Let me ask you something? Would consider a beautiful art piece or play "magical"? It doesn't contain any tricks nor is the audience fooled.

Erm, that really depends on how you define the word magical.

If you are talking about magic as in a magic show, magic performance, magic shop Theory 11, then the ans is NO.

But if your talking about the kind of feeling it gives me, then well, yes. I suppose you can call it "magical", but that would be different then the magic that we are doing.

I have mentioned about definitions before. I think its quite important in discussion.

And no, I don't think following rules is a factor at all. Sometimes you need to break rules to move forward.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

I agree with most opinion here, but I am in favour of harapan's view.

To me, a magician is simply someone who do tricks to entertain people.

In that sense I agree with Harapan.

But that doesn't mean my opinion is different from most people here. In fact its quite similar.

To me, what most people here define as magician is just a good magician.

A good magician wouldn't stop at the level of trickery. A good painter don't stop at just creating images. There is something more than that.

So someone who just do tricks is a "not so good" magician. Bad magicians are reserved for those who can't even successfully do a proper trick. But they are still magicians.

So may be we should change the title of the thread to: what makes a good magician?



Erm, that really depends on how you define the word magical.

If you are talking about magic as in a magic show, magic performance, magic shop Theory 11, then the ans is NO.

But if your talking about the kind of feeling it gives me, then well, yes. I suppose you can call it "magical", but that would be different then the magic that we are doing.

I have mentioned about definitions before. I think its quite important in discussion.

So you are saying you are nothing more than a person who perform tricks and fools people? You're saying that that you don't give a magical feeling to your spectators?

Mitchell

 

[Icy]

So you are saying you are nothing more than a person who perform tricks and fools people? You're saying that that you don't give a magical feeling to your spectators?

Mitchell

Hmm, not really. I am just saying someone just doing tricks is a magician. I don't think there is anything wrong with just doing tricks. But u can also give them a magical feeling if thats what YOU want, or any other thing to make it enjoyable, artistic, etc.

Urm, btw, did u read carefully what I am trying to say?

 

[harapanong]

Mr Stafeij: you didn't reply to my answer.

Anyway.

Magicians do tricks.

But tricks are done in a way it gives people a "magical" feeling (whatever that means). Or it can be entertaining.

Basically, I am someone who does tricks and others enjoy the trickery I do.

That's what a magician is.

- harapan. magic!

EDIT: Just to add a point. I categorize myself and magicians with tricksters because we essentially do the same thing: tricks. But that doesn't make me a trickster. Just like I categorize a Persian cat and a Bengal Tiger together because they are in the cat family... but both are different.

 

[S3al]

A magician to me, is someone who could take any tick, small or big, and perform it in a way, that is so good, that even if you know the secret, you still enjoy watching it. In the end, its all about performance.

 

[harapanong]

Mr S3al:

Agree with you, very nicely said.

But that's more like a GOOD magician.

- harapan. magic!

 

[S3al]

Mr S3al:

Agree with you, very nicely said.

But that's more like a GOOD magician.

- harapan. magic!

To me, No one is a true magician until you can perform in that way as I stated above. Now I'm not saying I can do that, very few people can. Let me put it this way. Just because you fixed a computer, does not mean you are a microsoft technician (or something along those lines.) In that sense, just because you do tricks, does not mean you are a magician. It all comes down to performance. Calling your self a magician is not a right, it is a privilege. That you only get from hours of practice and performing. Thats my thoughts on it. I just want to make it real clear, I'm not trying to tick anyone off. So if I did, sorry.

 

[harapanong]

Yay, I like it. Good, S3al. I like that.

- harapan. magic!

 

[Shodan]

I'm not a big fan of categorisation. I started calling myself a "magician" when I started getting paid for performing. Before that point, I would be more likely to refer to myself as someone who "does magic". I think you're a magician when you don't feel weird about calling yourself one!

Of course, that point occours at different levels with different people; hence there are bad magicians and good magicians.

 

[MaxDeVill]

A magician is someone who amazes people in a good way. Someone that can take the reality for one or more people and twist it for just a moment in order to make their mind do a stutter step. Putting peoples mind in that place that completely destroys their sense of reality and physics is what makes magic great.

Magicians are the generalization term placed upon all magic entertainers. So depending on your style of presentation and what you portray to your audiences, can be a label of appreciation or worse yet, it can be a label of disdain.

As I've always believed, you aren't anything you say you are. You are only what other people say you are. Other peoples perceptions are what label you.