When does it become "your effect"?

[Nokon]

I wondered this today when I was doing a handling of a trick that's like "Dream Card" by Darwin Ortiz. Another Magician friend of mine walked up to me and said : "Cool! Where did you learn that?". I did not know how to answer.
On one hand it looks like dream card to a layman. If you showed the same person who didn't know the sleights involved they would say it's the same trick. My version looks the same from the laymen but uses different sleights, steals, and gimmick are a little different.Mine is totally a self contained gimmick, meaning you can take a borrowed deck and do it, where Ortiz's is not. Does this make it a new effect?

Simply because a trick has different sleights does it mean that it's a new trick? Or is it the "end result" or "from the layman's view" that's important?

 

[SKSleighofHand]

Well, if you use a variation on the trick created by an artist, it does not become your effect. For example, on the collectors on the trilogy by dan and dave buck, if you use the hot shot to produce the aces instead of top shot, it is basically the same format of the trick.

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

I would say that is your handling of Ortiz's effect. Remember, in the end it is the effect that matters, not the method. When the overall effect of the trick changes it then becomes something different. However, just because 1 queen might vanish differently in your handling of the queens (for example) it doesn't make it a new effect. IE, most of the stuff on the Trilogy were their handlings of other creators effects.


C

 

[Nokon]

I would say that is your handling of Ortiz's effect. Remember, in the end it is the effect that matters, not the method. When the overall effect of the trick changes it then becomes something different. However, just because 1 queen might vanish differently in your handling of the queens (for example) it doesn't make it a new effect. IE, most of the stuff on the Trilogy were their handlings of other creators effects.


C

So it's like making a card come to the top using a Pass instead of a Double lift.

 

[sourboarder]

Hofzinser

Look at all the many Hofzinser card plots there are in this world. I'd say all those different people made that certain effect using the Hofzinser plot as an idea. Some people say if you make 3 changes it's yours. That's what you did using the dream card as an influence or idea.

 

[MagicShadow9]

I believe you'd have to make a brand new concept for it to be yours. Lots of people have there own version on the ACR for example. While it may be different it the sleights, the plot of it is still the same. So therefore the only person who can really say that the ACR is theirs is it's creator, Richard Neve.

 

[tally-ho]

lots of people have variations of effects. going back to the hofzinser post, i do a variation where the peek at a card, after the aces a laid on the table. aces are counted, one turns face up, the other cards are shaken and match the value, let's say 3s. spread through the pack and the card they peeked at is reversed. this is not my trick, this is a variation of a trick. it just uses a couple basic sleights and thats it. if i were to create a trick, using new sleights, with the same outcome, it would not be my trick. to become my trick, it would have to use new handling, different results and different all new appearence overall. if you didn't understand, it becomes your trick when you make it original.