Who here is good at Math? (Faros and Stacked Decks)

YenmanMAP · Apr 4, 2009

I have a Math Problem for you guys. I took a deck, arranged it ace through king, Spade Diamond Club Heart, and then performed four perfect out faros (out means the top and bottom cards are retained).

The result is a sequence which looks random, but cannot be as it is generated by a mathematical operation.

The question is how do I determine the next card in the sequence? Has this stack been used before? Any resources I can use to work this out?

If it is new then my little sister just worked out a pretty cool stack. She is not a magician, but she is a big fan of math and she is doing the development on this.

Also, please don't steal my little sister's stack. She will cry, and I will have to beat you up.

louis · Apr 4, 2009

spread the deck and take a picture so i can see cause i don't feel like doing it right now.

YenmanMAP · Apr 4, 2009

And here is a picture as well.

tally-ho · Apr 4, 2009

looks like it just goes up by 3 and then 4 and then 2 in certain intervals. but I haven't taken a good look at it yet. there is also a pattern in the suits.

louis · Apr 4, 2009

there is a mathematical order but it would take years to learn by heart and you would need to count the cards everytime you cut the deck.. there's some tricks you could do easily but there would be a huge unpartical set up..

AS - 11 11 11 12 12 12 13 13 13 13 13 14 14 14 15 15 15 15 15 16 16 16 17 11 - 10C KH

cedwards90 · Apr 4, 2009

louis said:
there is a mathematical order but it would take years to learn by heart and you would need to count the cards everytime you cut the deck.. there's some tricks you could do easily but there would be a huge unpartical set up..

no you wouldnt...it isnt that difficult at all, im working it out righ tnow

tally-ho · Apr 4, 2009

1st card is an ace. 4 cards over, another ace, 4 more another, and 4 more another. then goes onto 2s. very simple actually.

louis · Apr 4, 2009

do 4 more pefect faros and the stack will be alot more obvious to understand..
i think it will get the deck back in order.

louis · Apr 4, 2009

tally-ho said:
1st card is an ace. 4 cards over, another ace, 4 more another, and 4 more another. then goes onto 2s. very simple actually.

if you learn all the matches it's easy.. but why not stack it up like an invisible deck ?

YenmanMAP · Apr 4, 2009

It would not take years. My sister can already name the numbers in sequence when starting from the ace of spades, going through the whole deck. But we need a little help working from a card not the ace.

tally-ho · Apr 4, 2009

here is a brief pattern. see what I'm getting at. it is sorted by colour.

EDIT: the colour order is yellow, green, blue, red, pink, white.
it also goes in spades, diamonds, clubs, hearts if you follow that order.

bd · Apr 4, 2009

YenmanMAP said:
It would not take years. My sister can already name the numbers in sequence when starting from the ace of spades, going through the whole deck. But we need a little help working from a card not the ace.

I'm not a math guy, and I don't use a whole lot of stacked decks, but I think you could easily work out a card from anywhere in the deck....

Say you wanted the 2 of clubs.

The suits are arranged as such:

SDCH-DCHS-CHSD-HSDC and ends with SDCH

the starting cards are A, 2, 3, and the last set begins with 4.

So, we have AOS +3 = 4D.

The SDCH set is arranged in Starting card, +3, +3, +3
DCHS is arranged: Starting card, +3, +3, +4
CHSD: Starting card, +3, +4, +3
HSDC: Starting card, +4, +3, +3

This all works until we get to the last full set, which is 3H, +3, +3, -6. Then you have 7D 10C KH. And the suits in the last full set are messed up as well.

I have no idea if this helps or not. Lol.

pearce · Apr 4, 2009

Math & Stacks

Do you have the program StackView? It might be helpful. There was a thread here before with a link you could use to get the free download of the program. It's fun to tinker with. I have simulated your stack by the method you suggested and am messing with it a bit.

Check out the sight. Hope it helps!
www.stackview.com/

JP

EJ · Apr 4, 2009

Isn't that is the Sti Stebbin's deck set-up?

tally-ho · Apr 4, 2009

Itwasluck said:
Isn't that is the Sti Stebbin's deck set-up?

no. (I am not a fan of counting words)

bd · Apr 4, 2009

pearce said:
Do you have the program StackView? It might be helpful. There was a thread here before with a link you could use to get the free download of the program. It's fun to tinker with. I have simulated your stack by the method you suggested and am messing with it a bit.

Check out the sight. Hope it helps!
www.stackview.com/

JP

Looks like that site was hacked.

pearce · Apr 4, 2009

Here's an idea I had ... Arrange the "spread" pattern of cards in a complete circle by name to easier see the symmetry of the stack (best done by simply writing the names of them down). Each quadrant of the circle will have thirteen cards. I hope this makes sense. By the way, did you get the message about the previous link to the Stackview program?

Good luck,
JP

pearce · Apr 4, 2009

Uh-Oh.
Damn.
Sorry, didn't know about the Stackview site, and wastrying to PM earlier. haha.
Thank you Benjamind.

nayost · Apr 4, 2009

i'm not quite sure what exactly are you asking... however i remember reading something along those lines in the past. and i did, in the Expert Card Technique - Chapter 16: The Perfect Faro Shuffle. it has a few charts showing where each card will be after each perfect shuffle. check it out, hope this helps.

Shodan · Apr 5, 2009

Yeah, expert card technique has a whole chapter dedicated to the maths of the faro distribution and some interesting effects based on it. This concept is old as the hills and there's been LOADS of great tricks built around it. For instance, taking a brand new deck and using faros to get it into Si Stebbins stack is a very powerful tool.

What you've essentially reinvented here is the idea of distributing cards through faro shuffles. A little bit of work and thinking will suggest some powerful "think of a card" applications. Another interesting application of faro shuffling is to start with a tetradistic stack ("8 kings" for example, or anything like it). Two faro shuffles will put EVERY four of a kind together in the deck! You may also want to check out Paul Gordon's books - he does a lot of work with faro distributions that would help you to explore this concept.

Have fun!
David.