Magic Misconceptions you hate hearing

[Gabriel Z.]

Not true at all (Part II)

I believe the post revolves around common misconception that you hate hearing. And for anyone who does card magic this is one that comes up frequently. Yes, it's true that I hate hearing this from people, seeing that I love to practice the classic pass on my spare time. I read the link that you posted, and everyone has ideas on what makes a pass visible/invisible. I'm a nobody in the magic world, I can acknowledge that. However , I've been toying with the pass for about 5 years now, and I'm just starting to see what is possible with the move shifting cards to top bottom etc. One article by Michael Ammar is going to sway me to stop practicing the pass. Robert-Houdin(Father of Modern Magic) said that the classic pass is the backbone of Card Magic. Not to say that Michael Ammars article should be dismissed. The Classic Pass would not appear in so many sources if it wasn't an important move. "The Classic Pass is not a necessary move to learn.".... So you are trying to defend the fact that it's acceptable not to learn the Classic Pass. This seems to be the problem with many would be magicians and any other field for that matter, is that it's ok to be ignorant. Point being that just because you send an article from Michael Ammar doesn't mean I'm going to change my thought's on the Classic Pass. It's a good move and will continue to be used, debated, etc....Long after the current generation of cardicians are deceased.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

Not true at all (Part II)

I believe the post revolves around common misconception that you hate hearing. And for anyone who does card magic this is one that comes up frequently. Yes, it's true that I hate hearing this from people, seeing that I love to practice the classic pass on my spare time. I read the link that you posted, and everyone has ideas on what makes a pass visible/invisible. I'm a nobody in the magic world, I can acknowledge that. However , I've been toying with the pass for about 5 years now, and I'm just starting to see what is possible with the move shifting cards to top bottom etc. One article by Michael Ammar is going to sway me to stop practicing the pass. Robert-Houdin(Father of Modern Magic) said that the classic pass is the backbone of Card Magic. Not to say that Michael Ammars article should be dismissed. The Classic Pass would not appear in so many sources if it wasn't an important move. "The Classic Pass is not a necessary move to learn.".... So you are trying to defend the fact that it's acceptable not to learn the Classic Pass. This seems to be the problem with many would be magicians and any other field for that matter, is that it's ok to be ignorant. Point being that just because you send an article from Michael Ammar doesn't mean I'm going to change my thought's on the Classic Pass. It's a good move and will continue to be used, debated, etc....Long after the current generation of cardicians are deceased.

The article said if you think the pass is the best control for you, then go ahead and use it. More power to you. What I got from it is that it's sort of an overrated move and isn't as necessary as people claim it is.

 

[Gabriel Z.]

The article said if you think the pass is the best control for you, then go ahead and use it. More power to you. What I got from it is that it's sort of an overrated move and isn't as necessary as people claim it is.

Yeah, but I just didn't know which part of my original statement was "Not true at all". That my friend is the question.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

Yeah, but I just didn't know which part of my original statement was "Not true at all". That my friend is the question.

Fair enough

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

Here's another I thought of haha

Magicians often use their sleeves to make things appear/disappear (I know there are many pulls, holdouts, etc that use the sleeves but it's not as common as spectators seem to think)

 

[RealityOne]

Agreed. I'm sure in your case you wouldn't use it because you know more advanced and suitable controls. I think that at least 75% of the people that say they don't want to learn it is due to laziness. It takes months to learn to do well so most people just give up on it.

The Classic Pass would not appear in so many sources if it wasn't an important move. "The Classic Pass is not a necessary move to learn.".... So you are trying to defend the fact that it's acceptable not to learn the Classic Pass. This seems to be the problem with many would be magicians and any other field for that matter, is that it's ok to be ignorant.

The classic pass is like any other move in card magic... only useful if you use it well and know when to use it. I don't think choosing not to learn the classic pass makes you "lazy" or "ignorant." At that same time, I see no harm in trying to master the classic pass if you enjoy doing it.

However, I do not think it is the be all or end all of card sleights. There are a lot of sleights which are more difficult and a lot of sleights that are more useful.

Additionally, the classic pass really does not "appear in so many sources" especially in sources since the 1980s.

Robert-Houdin(Father of Modern Magic) said that the classic pass is the backbone of Card Magic.

I think the quote is from Professor Hoffman in Modern Magic (don't remember if he is quoting Houdin). However, to put that in context, there really weren't that many other controls available prior to and through the 1950s. That is like quoting Henry Ford saying that the Model T is the best car ever built.

There are a lot of controls that are much more invisible and efficient and much less angle sensitive than the pass. To my knowledge, there aren't a lot of effects that are taught using the classic pass and very few effect that actually require controlling 26 cards. The most I've seen it used for is a pick a card / find a card trick or an ambitious card. The other problem is the way that most people do it, there are significant "tells."

All that said, if someone wants to spend the time to try and make it invisible and then uses it in performances in front of real people, that's fine with me. Do what makes you enjoy practicing and performing magic.

P.S. #1 - I can do the classic pass and have used it in performances without ever being caught. That said, I rarely use it because there are better controls for the context of the effect.

P.S. #2 - Whenever I'm asked if I want to see someone's pass, my response is "not really... isn't is supposed to be invisible?"

 

[HectorE1]

Here's one of mine "the pass is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer"... No, it's not

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

Here's one of mine "the pass is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer"... No, it's not

I think the full quote is "using the pass to control one card is like killing a fly with a sledgehammer"

 

[Theris]

"You know, everything was fine, but the way you did that no, that time when you were shuffling the deck? Yes, I saw the small compass you had hidden between the cards. You should have done something like this..."

Then they will do some weird karate-cum-hand-puppet-cum-classical-dance-cum-salt-shaker-meme-kinda hand maneuver, apparently trying to show me how things ought to be done.

And I am like,

"Oh yeah! Man, you've got sharp eyes, you've got sharp eyes..."

This is so relatable. It's simultaneously irritating yet kind of funny the "logics" people can come up with.
Like during a triumph performance, a guy told me that I had been using the base of my palm to turn over the cards as I was shuffling them o.0

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

That all magicians can saw a lady in half (and put her back together).

 

[Gabriel Z.]

The classic pass is like any other move in card magic... only useful if you use it well and know when to use it. I don't think choosing not to learn the classic pass makes you "lazy" or "ignorant." At that same time, I see no harm in trying to master the classic pass if you enjoy doing it.

However, I do not think it is the be all or end all of card sleights. There are a lot of sleights which are more difficult and a lot of sleights that are more useful.

Additionally, the classic pass really does not "appear in so many sources" especially in sources since the 1980s.



I think the quote is from Professor Hoffman in Modern Magic (don't remember if he is quoting Houdin). However, to put that in context, there really weren't that many other controls available prior to and through the 1950s. That is like quoting Henry Ford saying that the Model T is the best car ever built.

There are a lot of controls that are much more invisible and efficient and much less angle sensitive than the pass. To my knowledge, there aren't a lot of effects that are taught using the classic pass and very few effect that actually require controlling 26 cards. The most I've seen it used for is a pick a card / find a card trick or an ambitious card. The other problem is the way that most people do it, there are significant "tells."

All that said, if someone wants to spend the time to try and make it invisible and then uses it in performances in front of real people, that's fine with me. Do what makes you enjoy practicing and performing magic.

P.S. #1 - I can do the classic pass and have used it in performances without ever being caught. That said, I rarely use it because there are better controls for the context of the effect.

P.S. #2 - Whenever I'm asked if I want to see someone's pass, my response is "not really... isn't is supposed to be invisible?"

No , but really thanks for putting that into perspective.

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

This is so relatable. It's simultaneously irritating yet kind of funny the "logics" people can come up with.
Like during a triumph performance, a guy told me that I had been using the base of my palm to turn over the cards as I was shuffling them o.0

People always say thay when I do a triumph. They always say I was fixing the card when I showed they were facing different directions, even though I only show them three cards out of 52

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

That tells you something about how they are interpreting your presentation.

 

[Lyle Borders]

People always say thay when I do a triumph. They always say I was fixing the card when I showed they were facing different directions, even though I only show them three cards out of 52

That tells you something about how they are interpreting your presentation.

There are always going to be occasional people who try to mess with you, but you are right. Most people don't do this without cause. If your performance is getting this sort of reaction on a regular basis you are probably directly causing that reaction by your performance.

If your performance frames your trick as a "See if you can catch me" trick, you are going to get this sort of response every time. You can often avoid this by framing your performance differently. Don't challenge your audience, just show them something magical.

// L

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

That tells you something about how they are interpreting your presentation.

That’s why I don’t do a triumph that often. Havent found a proper presentation for it

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

So, my thinking on Triumph is a bit off the beaten path, but it is based on the often illogical way that laymen think. The two ways I have seen it done most frequently are (1) with a slop shuffle and (2) with an (apparent) riffle shuffle. If you think about it, once you've done either of those two procedures, they really have no reason to believe anything but that the cards are hopelessly intermingled face up and face down. In other words, they are already convinced, and all we can do at this point is to do something to "unconvince them." By going further with the sequence, "Look, some cards are face to back, some cards are back to face, and some are back to back," there is not only over-proving, which in itself can arouse suspicion since they already believed the cards were intermingled, but there is further handling which, in a layman's mind allows us to "do something." They might not know what that "something" is, but they do believe it was, in fact, something. So they will make up the wildest and craziest things to try to justify their suspicion. It's just the nature of the beast (known as a layman).

Once the apparent intermingling of the cards has been accomplished, the selection is now on top (at least in my handling), and there are a bunch of face up cards underneath the selection, and a bunch of face down cards beneath those. At that point in the trick, I have found that it is far more convincing to skip the "convincing," if that makes sense. So I simply cut at the back to back juncture, using the tips of the fingers of my left hand (I'm right handed) as a hinge to turn and rotate the top packet (top half of deck) completely over and slap it to the table like the first part of a cut, and slap the other packet on top to complete the cut. Done smoothly, it just looks like a nice crisp cut to the table. Now all cards are face down, with the selection face up on the bottom. I invite a spectator to cut and complete the cut, and they themselves have now done what you needed - that is to say the selection is now face up in the middle of all face down cards, and you can then do a table spread for the revelation. Try it, you may like it - works well for me.

 

[Theris]

There are always going to be occasional people who try to mess with you, but you are right. Most people don't do this without cause. If your performance is getting this sort of reaction on a regular basis you are probably directly causing that reaction by your performance.

If your performance frames your trick as a "See if you can catch me" trick, you are going to get this sort of response every time. You can often avoid this by framing your performance differently. Don't challenge your audience, just show them something magical.

// L

That's a very good point. However, triumph is my favorite effect and my signature performance.
I normally get great reactions at this but I was just talking about this one guy.

(Later I found out that his wife who had seen and liked this performance had asked him to come with her the next time and he just came with the sole purpose to 'crack' the method
TL;DR you're absolutely right about the performance and I do need to work on several of my performances but I've spent quite some time on my triumph performance and it generally gets good reactions)

 

[Antonio Diavolo]

So, my thinking on Triumph is a bit off the beaten path, but it is based on the often illogical way that laymen think. The two ways I have seen it done most frequently are (1) with a slop shuffle and (2) with an (apparent) riffle shuffle. If you think about it, once you've done either of those two procedures, they really have no reason to believe anything but that the cards are hopelessly intermingled face up and face down. In other words, they are already convinced, and all we can do at this point is to do something to "unconvince them." By going further with the sequence, "Look, some cards are face to back, some cards are back to face, and some are back to back," there is not only over-proving, which in itself can arouse suspicion since they already believed the cards were intermingled, but there is further handling which, in a layman's mind allows us to "do something." They might not know what that "something" is, but they do believe it was, in fact, something. So they will make up the wildest and craziest things to try to justify their suspicion. It's just the nature of the beast (known as a layman).

Once the apparent intermingling of the cards has been accomplished, the selection is now on top (at least in my handling), and there are a bunch of face up cards underneath the selection, and a bunch of face down cards beneath those. At that point in the trick, I have found that it is far more convincing to skip the "convincing," if that makes sense. So I simply cut at the back to back juncture, using the tips of the fingers of my left hand (I'm right handed) as a hinge to turn and rotate the top packet (top half of deck) completely over and slap it to the table like the first part of a cut, and slap the other packet on top to complete the cut. Done smoothly, it just looks like a nice crisp cut to the table. Now all cards are face down, with the selection face up on the bottom. I invite a spectator to cut and complete the cut, and they themselves have now done what you needed - that is to say the selection is now face up in the middle of all face down cards, and you can then do a table spread for the revelation. Try it, you may like it - works well for me.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[Al e Cat Dabra]

@Antonio Diavolo: You are most welcome. As far as finding a proper presentation, I think that is always the most challenging, yet most creative and important part of most any routine.

In my routine, I talk about how "people sometimes ask me to shuffle the cards." I say, "After all, people are (justifiably) suspicious of magicians, knowing that we use deception, so it seems only fair that they should be permitted to level the playing field, so I let them shuffle when they ask, and even sometimes when they don't. Well one night after I had performed a couple minor miracles with the cards, I had a guy select a card and return it to the deck and I started to shuffle. like this [controlling card to bottom]. But then, he asked me if he could shuffle the cards, and I said, 'sure.' But I couldn't believe it when I saw how he shuffled." [I demonstrate, using the slop shuffle]. "He handed the cards back to me with kind of a smug look and said, 'Now do a trick.' " From there, I talk about how worried I was, that I was in a real jam (you know, the old magician in trouble bit), but that fortunately I knew a bit of magic... And you know from my prior post the handling I use from there, cutting to the table, then having him cut, then the revelation.

 

[CardMagicNJ]

Wow what a great topic !! If you don't mind me sharing my thoughts about the pass are it's this somewhat standard test that people hold you too to see if you're really a magician. For instance I could tell somebody I'm a pitcher in the major leagues well they would say let me see your fastball and if I threw 96 miles an hour they would say okay he really is a pitcher but it's not necessary. So I think a lot of magicians will say you know if you really are a card conjurer let me see you do the classic pass...... Even though it's not written down anywhere I think it's this somewhat kind of a test that they just throw at you. I don't know anyway thanks for letting me share.