About T11's marketing of cards

[MoJoe13]

Dear T11,

About that marketing presentation you did for the Split Spades Lions: Do that more.

I can't help comparing how the Lions were marketed to the Centurions. Better video, better photos (including beautiful hues in the RGB colorspace!) and an appropriate description of the cards. Even though there was no hide and seek to play, you gave us consumers a whole lot more to look at.

Speaking of those Centurions, your marketing doesn't do them justice. A grainy DM video is cool and all, but it really didn't sell the cards to me. Also, no color pictures of the face cards kept me from buying them sooner. I bought them as an afterthought; I was buying Brown Wynns and wanted to capitalize on the shipping. When I opened them up, I was immediately impressed by the red and black royalty and the different shade of red. One could argue that I got a bonus, and that would be true. But those kind of features are things T11 should be highlighting, not hiding.

I know there's a lot of theories about marketing; I just wanted to say that T11 is on the right track, judging by the differences between these two campaigns. As much as some hate hype, I love it. It provides a lot more information and reduces a lot of uncertainty about my purchases. Keep up the good work.

 

[Aos]

no
all of their card 'campaigns' are trash
they give no valuable information about the cards at all
its 100% hype
i cant believe that you wrote that

 

[Deleted member 2755]

no
all of their card 'campaigns' are trash
they give no valuable information about the cards at all
its 100% hype
i cant believe that you wrote that

I have to agree with this. It's cool to see the flourishes and everything, but my first thought after every time I see a preview for cards is "I have to get these!" It's usually not for a few days that I see through the hype. It's just paper. Sure I might get comments, but honestly... unless I'm a hardcore flourisher... I don't care. Bikes in magic are the best. I don't get questioned when using custom decks, but it is just best to rule out that I'm using fake cards even as an option. Until I get really good at flourishing, I'm done with the custom decks.

These cards will not make your flourish like Dan, Dave, or Madison!

-Doug

 

[copperfield 14]

I have to agree with this. It's cool to see the flourishes and everything, but my first thought after every time I see a preview for cards is "I have to get these!" It's usually not for a few days that I see through the hype. It's just paper. Sure I might get comments, but honestly... unless I'm a hardcore flourisher... I don't care. Bikes in magic are the best. I don't get questioned when using custom decks, but it is just best to rule out that I'm using fake cards even as an option. Until I get really good at flourishing, I'm done with the custom decks.

These cards will not make your flourish like Dan, Dave, or Madison!

-Doug

AMen to that. Oh and it's Dan and Dave not Dan, Dave. They like to be called as one.

 

[PlethZorb]

I agree with Aos about the extreme hype that surrounds each release of a new deck, but it sort of adds to the whole fun factor of buying these decks. T11 put a lot of effort into the decks too, so its their best interest to market these as much as possible. It also provides a pretty cool mindset for the owner's of these cards.

 

[Suux88]

Centurions Rock
any company plz Make friggen Tally Gimmicks already

Plz and thanks

 

[MoJoe13]

I agree about the extreme hype that surrounds each release of a new deck, but it sort of adds to the whole fun factor of buying these decks. T11 put a lot of effort into the decks too, so its their best interested to market these as much as possible. It also provides a pretty cool mindset for the owner's of these cards.

I think we all have to admit that we love the hype, even though many of us hate it. We hate it because we respond to it. It works, plain and simple. We are well-conditioned monkeys, all of us. What have Dan and Dave done to hype their cards, except to show the Ace and to say they are publishing one? And how many of us are already sold on them?

Of course we all see through the hype. But we also participate in it. We browse the galleries that E publishes, we watch the videos that T11 produces, and we get a better look into the product they are pushing. Look at the hype behind W:H's and DG's Ultragaff. Whether we loved the deck or hated it based on the hype, it built conversation and interest among both groups.

 

[Vastago]

Hype has always been there...

why are you guys so sensitive about it..??

I tolerate hype because i dont fall for it, and i guess we know that hype, its targeted to new members and young magicians.

There has been massive and i mean MASSIVE hype from other magic websites and i dont hear you guys chatting about that...

I agree that maybe some useful information would be appreciated in the product description, in the case of the "custom cards" but its also true that not all the other young or old magicians care about the "info".

If you are happy with normal bikes then let the other guys alone.


I would like to ask... What type of information do you guys suggest for the future custom decks description page??

Weight? (no kidding), thickness?, durability? (a decent study of this with numbers that all the community could understand), Flexibility?,

TALK PEOPLE!

 

[TheAsian]

Ah hype...it never seems to fail to sell a product for half of consumers, and somehow irritate the other half because they feel that it's false advertising.

I agree that most custom decks are overly hyped up, but in someways I feel that this is a good thing. It is true that a custom deck is not going to make you a great magician or flourish artist, and that there is often little or no difference between custom decks as far as feel as quality (Unless you are a professional connoisseur of cards, as it were). But, if these new decks were not 'hyped up,' what would there be for us as magician and flourish artists to look forward to?

Dvd releases are few and somewhat far between, and there is never a guarantee that it is on a topic or effect that you would find interesting. Same thing applies to the 1 on 1 section. Though regular, it's a crap shoot as to whether it will be on something of interest for any given customer. The one thing that 99% of magicians and flourish artists have a common interest in is cards. For most, a deck of cards is our main tool in our arsenal. When a new deck is slotted to be released, it allows us to break from the norm, even if just for a little bit before we go back to what we usually use.

For example, I always fall back to using Blue Backed Bicycle Masters. I have ever since they came out, and I probably always will. But, I love to get the new decks that come out just to break things up a bit.

I guess my point is that I agree that most decks don't deserve the hype that they get, but I feel that the hype is good in that it gives us as magicians something to get excited about.

~The Asian

 

[copperfield 14]

Hype has always been there...
I would like to ask... What type of information do you guys suggest for the future custom decks description page??

Weight? (no kidding), thickness?, durability? (a decent study of this with numbers that all the community could understand), Flexibility?,

TALK PEOPLE!

I want to know the smell of the deck. Then I'll be happy.

 

[2ndDeal]

d+M is the master of hype.

 

[Vastago]

hahaha....

no kidding... I would like some kind of study.... you know, when they say "dani garcia, j.bayme and D&D say its great!!" doesnt sound (for me) like something i could trust THEY ARE MAGICIANS!! hhahaha but beyond that, weather conditions are something that affects the cards

 

[MoJoe13]

I would like to ask... What type of information do you guys suggest for the future custom decks description page?? Weight? (no kidding), thickness?, durability? (a decent study of this with numbers that all the community could understand), Flexibility?

Being a collector, I would love to see details on the card stock used, the thickness and the finish. But I don't think E, T11 or any other maker of cards would ever publish this because -- and this is only my hunch -- there's really not a lot of difference between them.

The biggest variation between everyone's decks is the design and style. If someone from T11 can set me straight on this, I will gladly eat my words, but there's just not many variations of card stock and finish out there. That means, of all the qualities and variables that could make a deck unique, there's not many from which to choose. E has the UV500, Tallys have the Linoid, Bikes are Bikes and Bees are Bees (let's just discount the cheap cards such as Aviators and Mavericks). Other than that, what else is there? That leaves the design as the only thing that truly separates a custom deck.

 

[J.R.]

I don't like the hype because it tries to sell each new deck of cards as 'different' in terms of feel and quality. This is BS and we all know it. The only difference (as long as it is produced by the USPCC) is the design.

This answers the question someone has asked - what information do we need about the cards. Well, just some pictures so that we can see the design, and may be the finish.

But the real reason I don't like the marketing BS we are offered, is because I truly respect the creators and magicians behind T11 and I don't want this site to become just another E site that everyone hates.

 

[PlethZorb]

Doesn't the USPCC use different processes to print different decks?

For example, T11's Guardians would be printed differently to E's Black Tiger or even T11's Centurions.

 

[Daugava]

I bought a few decks, but I didn't buy them because of the hype, I bought them because I like the way they look, and I have been looking at the Split Spades earlier

 

[j.bayme]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to chime in on this, as there's a lot of great feedback but also some points in this thread that I wanted to address. Currently typing this in terminal C of the Cincinnati, Ohio airport (few minutes away from USPC hq).

theory11 has probably worked more closely than anyone with USPC over the past several months. We've delved deeper than anyone in this industry has before into what makes a deck of playing card truly elite. By elite, I don't mean it with marketing spin. I mean it the way the dictionary means it - the highest quality possible.

We've spent countless hours of time, energy, phone calls, and emails on it. We've had countless meetings about it. We've gone through dozens of tests and experimentation. I know this intimately because most of this was done by me, with the goal to bring playing card standards to a higher level.

A previous post in this thread (JR) commented that the only difference between decks is the design. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth. Each deck produced involves multiple steps of production, multiple processes - all of which affect the quality and feel of the end result. The USPC produces all paper utilized on decks in house; the process is extremely intricate. There are tons of varieties of paper stocks; hundreds of combinations. Some decks (ie, the type a gas station or novelty store might sell) are as cheaply-made as possible - for party favors, special events, weddings, corporations. There's nothing wrong with that. There's certainly a market for those decks, as not everyone that buys playing cards cares about how well it fans after 3 days of watching the Trilogy.

But we do. For a numerical comparison, the Guardians and Centurions are some of the most expensive (to produce) decks to come out the factory doors. Did we raise the retail price because of this fact? Not a penny. But to create a deck that is as durable as the Guardians, Centurions - it's anything but the same. We put blood, sweat, and tears into it. On a personal note, I worked directly alongside the Director of R&D at USPC for months, going through dozens of prototypes on each. We rejected all but one. We found what we liked. We tested.

For the new Split Spades: David Blaine, Dan White, and everyone else involved worked tirelessly to ramp up the quality. Everyone was anxiously awaiting their arrival, hoping that in the final result, the feel would fit the look. DB and crew didn't just choose the standard card stock - they went through several samples, even changing the finish at the absolute 11th hour in hopes of nailing it. When we first got the decks in hand, it was love at first sight. Everyone was 100% satisfied. We were extremely excited. DB, Dan White, and Daniel Garcia (among others) tested the decks extensively in NYC as soon as they arrived, and myself and Dan & Dave cracked 'em open for the first time early this past week before shooting the teaser and preview video footage in the desert outside Las Vegas.

To summarize my points - when we say that we went to the ends of the earth creating a deck or working towards an elite quality standard, we mean it. It's not just spin. We lose sleep over this stuff. We sweat it. We care.

Do we also work hard creating cool preview videos and such? Of course - we have a great time doing so and as a site, it's an important part of our image and style. But the style has substance to back it up.

And of course, appreciate the feedback from everyone in this thread - glad you guys dug the video and the decks, and look forward to much more coming...

 

[JoeCarr]

thats all good but, WHEN IS THE GALLERY COMING!! i have a new pic...

 

[MoJoe13]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to chime in on this, as there's a lot of great feedback but also some points in this thread that I wanted to address. Currently typing this in terminal C of the Cincinnati, Ohio airport (few minutes away from USPC hq).

<<snip>>

A previous post in this thread (JR) commented that the only difference between decks is the design. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth. Each deck produced involves multiple steps of production, multiple processes - all of which affect the quality and feel of the end result. The USPC produces all paper utilized on decks in house; the process is extremely intricate. There are tons of varieties of paper stocks; hundreds of combinations.

I'm jealous that you're so close to Card Mecca (and, for that matter, WORKING there). Thanks for setting me straight -- I had no idea there were so many combinations.

In the future, I would love to see T11 (and other companies) include as much information about the card stock, finish, etc. I'm the kind of shopper that digs delving into the specs. Can't wait to see what your design team does with a joker reveal, as well. Get on that!

Thanks for your response!

 

[Deleted member 2755]

Thanks for the info Bayme. I'm sure it's hard work getting a deck produced by the USPCC. I'm also sure that it's a lot harder than what all of us are picturing in our minds. You guys deserve every penny you get on your custom decks. (You also charge cheaper than most sites who have custom decks which is nice.)

It's just that sometimes after watching these awesome trailers where you have Dan and Dave doing the awesome flourishes, sometimes we just don't think. We just think "Man... that is the greatest thing I've ever seen." (Maybe because it is....) It's just that then we don't even think and we just order a brick of them first thing....

I feel that it's hard to resist ordering these babies and it's as though anything we were saving up for prior to this is now not important and these cards are our highest priority. I plan on getting a few Split Spade decks as they do look absolutely AMAZING, but I honestly considered ordering 3 of them a few days ago when I've been saving up for other things longer. It's kind of hard to get our priorities in order. However, as I said, you guys deserve every cent you get from these decks because they are amazing.

Love the new stuff Bayme and I look forward to seeing what T11 has in the future. I'll be ordering a few of these decks within the next few weeks.

-Doug