Daniel Madison is a thief?

[Telemitry]

Press release by Theory11 or DM?

I'm surprised that Theory11 or a spokesperson for DM has not responded. Regardless of what any of us believe, you would think there should be some damage control happening. Even if the accusations are false you still would wnat to make a statement since Jay's newsletter went out to the entire magic community.

Has anyone seen anything and I'm just missing it? Just seems like it all could be at least slightly damaging and enough of a cause to say something.

 

[waynehouchin]

I'm surprised that Theory11 or a spokesperson for DM has not responded. Regardless of what any of us believe, you would think there should be some damage control happening. Even if the accusations are false you still would wnat to make a statement since Jay's newsletter went out to the entire magic community.

Has anyone seen anything and I'm just missing it? Just seems like it all could be at least slightly damaging and enough of a cause to say something.

You can check out my post regarding this on the previous page. It's also important to note that the products Jay specifically mentions were products that Daniel released on his own through his site. When he realized there was an issue the products were removed. I believe they were only up for 2 weeks... That certainly wouldn't excuse any intentional wrong doing, but what I think is important is that when the issue was brought to Daniel's attention - he took care of it & removed the products.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

I think we are missing a lot of information in this dilemma. Instead of pointing fingers and yelling names, we should wait for it to be approached by Mr. Madison. This is HIS battle, not ours.

Mitch

 

[dummyisdumb]

Honestly, I must say, although Sankey's effects are genius, the methods are rather weak for about %75 of them. Not really a big deal if you ask me.

 

[Creeper]

Sankey's always complaining in those newletters. Not that it justifys what happened, but we have to realize, this is going to continue to happen. There are just so many effects out there, it's a miracle if you come up with something original.

 

[d+M]

Yo, I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of this issue. Those products have been removed from my site. I have apologized to Jay, and I'd like to apologize to you for any confusion. I certainly did not & would not knowingly release anything that had been out before. I'm glad this was brought to my attention.

D

 

[dummyisdumb]

Yo, I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of this issue. Those products have been removed from my site. I have apologize to Jay, and I'd like to apologize to you for any confusion. I certainly did not & would not knowingly release anything that had been out before. I'm glad this was brought to my attention.

D

Like that magically fixes everything.

 

[Brad Henderson]

A lot of people in similar situations have still refused to say they are sorry. It is definitely a step in the right direction, and I for one am grateful that parties are attempting to make this right. It is truly something that sets Theory 11 apart from others.

 

[JackOSpadesNik]

I can't believe the replies that some of you give. You act like it's OK to steal from Sankey. Even if you think he's anoying that makes it ok to take his effects?

I'm not a huge fan of Sankey, and don't know much about Madison's products, so I have an open mind to the situation. Daniel removed the products so it's cool. His reply was crap.

"I do not have any involvment in the magic industry at this point as I consider myself to be a visual artist and not a magician." - Daniel Madison

How do you not have any involvment in the magic industry? Your a T11 artist. This is a magic site. And you create and sell magic tricks. How in the hell are you not a magician or part of the magic industry?

[QUOTEMeh who really cares people get stolen from everyday.][/QUOTE]

So it's OK to steal someone's effects. If you decided to market an effect one day and I stole it would you still say " who really cares"

I agree. Its all inspired. And i like Daniel Madisons stuff, and at least he gives the tricks cool names!

I don't think you know what inspired means. Usually you credit the person you where inspired by. And giving the trick a mysterious and cool name makes it ok?


Daniel made a mistake and took off the products. It's all good. But I think the ethics shown in these replies are the bigger problem, and a major problem in magic today.

 

[waynehouchin]

Daniel made a mistake and took off the products. It's all good. But I think the ethics shown in these replies are the bigger problem, and a major problem in magic today.

I agree completely. Some of the responses to this thread have been less than inspiring - It certainly is NOT OK to knowingly use another's idea without permission or credit. I think (to a certain extent) it is understandable when this happens unintentionally within our art - however, it is our responsibility to make sure that when this happens credit is given where credit is due & the proper steps are taken.

It is so very easy to independently create something you believe to be original only to find out that it has been done before. This has happened to and WILL happen to EVERY creator. How that creator responds to the information is very important.

 

[Telemitry]

thanks!

Thanks Wayne, I did not see the response and I apologize for missing it.

 

[samuelmshin]

Like that magically fixes everything.

Seriously? You're going to stay this bitter about the entire issue? You have GOT to be kidding me. I stand by what I wrote on my previous post on this thread, and it was written with what was made known to me at the time. After skimming through the posts that followed and finding out the actions taken, it is apparent to me that both parties are appeased with the current circumstances.

As I see it, Daniel Madison created some effects that ended up being similar to some of Sankey's effects. This isn't an issue of plagiarism, but rather an issue of ignorance. I say that not with the negative connotation that the word usually carries; I mean that Daniel straight up didn't know, and that absolves him of the blame.

Two effects that were very similar were created by two separate parties, not influenced by each other. Therefore, whoever comes out with it first gets the credit. I could claim to have invented the Marlo Tilt, but since Ed Marlo published it long ago, everybody would simply say I stole the move from him. If I had absolutely no access to magic secrets and simply figured them out by imagining the effect, then am I at fault for "stealing" a method I didn't know was already in circulation? All I did was dream up a cool effect and come up with a means of making it happen.

Sure, you could say Madison should have researched it more. But the magic community is big, and it's only going to get bigger. As magic works its way back into mainstream society and more and more people make it their ambition to release products to make money, things will slip by. The fact that this issue was found, addressed, and resolved is a GREAT thing.

In my eyes, there is no guilty party. Sankey created some effects, Madison created some effects. Sankey published them first, Madison second. Sankey saw Madison's effects and, due to a tumultuous history in terms of plagiarism, assumed the worst. Sankey contacted Madison, and Madison apologized got rid of the things on his website that sparked the issue.

I request this thread be locked. The problem is solved. The fiasco is over. And it turned out to be much less than people initially thought.

 

[Hazerman15]

Its such a fine line wherestealing starts and improving begins. The invisible deck has not been invented by sankey, but he can sell it along with a dvd of applications, and he is fine.
Anyways. I would love to see a video of wrath, because I myself have been working on a new kicker to In a Flash, and im not attempting to market it, but would like to see if anyone else has thought of it.
Matt

 

[samuelmshin]

Its such a fine line wherestealing starts and improving begins. The invisible deck has not been invented by sankey, but he can sell it along with a dvd of applications, and he is fine.
Anyways. I would love to see a video of wrath, because I myself have been working on a new kicker to In a Flash, and im not attempting to market it, but would like to see if anyone else has thought of it.
Matt

It's not an issue of improving. Madison didn't see Sankey's effects and think, "How can I take that and make it better?" In fact, he didn't see them at all. At least, that's what I got from reading through the thread. And I really only paid attention to the posts by Wayne and Daniel, because I think they're the closest to the matter and therefore have the most valuable amount of input on the situation.

 

[adjones]

I'm amazed at the immaturity of some users here. Because you don't like Sankey, that makes it all right for Daniel Madison to steal effects? Or because it's happened before, it's ok? I think when it goes beyond one effect, it's more than coincidence... it's stealing, and it's ethically and morally wrong. Jay Sankey did not over-react... if someone stole some of my products (if I had any), I'd be pretty dang angry, too.

And if Daniel truly didn't see the products, he probably should have done a bit more research before releasing them. And if it was purely accident, I do apologize. But I have lost all respect for Daniel if this is true. I do think Daniel handled it very well and maturely, though. As of right now, I'm assuming it was an accident, simply because he did remove the effects from his site. But, like said earlier in the thread, the ethics of some of the users here that are saying "it's all right" and stuff before they knew it was just an accident worry me a lot more. People need to grow up and stop worshiping people because they're "cool". No offense to Daniel, of course.

 

[Cyrus]

Yo, I just wanted to let you know that I am aware of this issue. Those products have been removed from my site. I have apologized to Jay, and I'd like to apologize to you for any confusion. I certainly did not & would not knowingly release anything that had been out before. I'm glad this was brought to my attention.

D

I think you guys need to pay more attention. Daniel himself and Wayne have posted in this topic in regard to the situation.

Guys, this is just like when Banachek and Wayne, both made "stigmata" separately. Its not to confusing.

-Cyrus

 

[Eddie]

You guys are such fan boys. How would you feel if your trick was stolen without permission and CREDIT?
You guys are totally being unfair to Sankey here, and now I see you guys insulting him? Wow...
(Only bothered to read the first page of this thread btw...)

 

[Hazerman15]

It's not an issue of improving. Madison didn't see Sankey's effects and think, "How can I take that and make it better?" In fact, he didn't see them at all. At least, that's what I got from reading through the thread. And I really only paid attention to the posts by Wayne and Daniel, because I think they're the closest to the matter and therefore have the most valuable amount of input on the situation.

I understand, I was just bringing up the matter in general.

 

[Michael Kras]

I personally am a HUGE Sankey fan... I have access to the methods of both House Bound and Bound and don't think they are the same at all. Same effect but not really the same method. However I have not seen the In A Flash effect of Mr. Madison's so I cannot comment. However, as much as I love Jay's work, I don't think Bound is really the same at all.

 

[Hazerman15]

I cant find Madison's flash effect anywhere