Fallen Teaser Released

Nov 19, 2007
76
0
MD
Yeah, the effect is cool but I don't think it should be 1 trick on a DVD for $25 bucks.

Oh, so they already announced that it's $25 and won't feature anything else? :rolleyes:

Chill out guys, the trick isn't out yet nor has it been priced. For all we know, his whole ambitious card routine could be taught on the DVD. We'll just have to wait and find out.
 
Sep 1, 2007
409
1
California
Hmmmmmmmm

Looks ok but I would not spend more than $5 for this tiny thing...

BTW when he performed for his parents it reminded me of the "Ultra Gaff" where is the trailer for that?
 
Im definatley interested. Ive been looking for a good closer for my ACR for ages. I just dont like the pop up move and this would definatley be able to fit in there.

And By the way, if it is a single trick DVD the price will probably be like the Hover Card or something.

Cheers, Tom
 
Guys,

Remember not to take everything out on Ellusionist. You have no idea what's going to be on the DVD or the price yet. It could be filled of other effects Danny uses in an ACR routine, and could only be $15 you never know.

Although I do express the same feelings, we still have to wait and see =)

-RA69
 
Aug 31, 2007
185
0
I have a feeling that it'll be for download only. I doubt they'd make a whole dvd just to show this one effect. Unless of course like Rebel said, there might be more that is going to be taught.
 
I find all the posts about how it's not worth $25 or whatever, wouldn't pay more than a couple of bucks for it, to be quite weird. On the one hand these forums, like many others, are replete with threads about exposure, stopping it, stamping it out, about giving creators their due, crediting, all that kind of stuff...but when it comes to the magic effects themselves, everyone wants them for a pittance.

Odd.

So it may be one move. So what? Stigmata is (the routine surrounding it, notwithstanding) simply 'one' move, is that not worth $30? Indecent is (again, barring the routine surrounding it) just 'one' thing you have to do to get the card in the bag. makes no difference does it? The card's in the bag and no one else knows how you got it in there. Which is why they freak. And which is why we all paid $30 for it. Money well spent in my eyes.

So it may only be specifically for the end of an already existing routine that you have to make up yourselves...come on guys...you're paying, as always, for the secret. You're paying to be one of those in the know, to be one up on your spectators.

That stuff should rightly cost money and keep from the door all the losers who'd like to know how it's done so they can tell everyone else.


As for already knowing methods and it not being worth the money, again ask yourself this: If you created it and decided to sell it via an online magic site, would you charge $5?

Didn't think so.



Rabid
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,229
0
yes...but the4 two moves used in it are bad. one is angley. and the other its awkward.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,572
2
34
Leicester, UK
www.youtube.com
yes...but the4 two moves used in it are bad. one is angley. and the other its awkward.

Ugh... Please don't tell me you're basing this off what you've seen in the trailer?

If there's one thing that annoys me it's the people that say:

"I figured it out from watching the trailer, I don't like it it's too angle sensitive, it's awkward, etc."

I'm sorry but I don't see how you can know the EXACT method and then have the outright balls to go and comment on how the method is awkward or angle sensitive. To me, unless you know the EXACT (SEE? CAPS LOCK I'M BEING SERIOUS :p) and I mean EXACT method then you shouldn't be commenting on it because you simply don't know.

That's like seeing a game that no-one has EVER played/seen/read reviews about or even knew existed before and saying "Oh, that's rubbish, the graphics are bad, the gameplay sucks and the storyline is boring."

D'you see where I'm coming from on this? I'm just making a point here folks.

- Sean
 
Sep 1, 2007
209
0
Well, we all know that Ellusionist's DVD are aimed at beginners, so with that in mind, I think Daniel may be teaching an entire ACR.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,229
0
Well, we all know that Ellusionist's DVD are aimed at beginners, so with that in mind, I think Daniel may be teaching an entire ACR.

I hope so.

and Sean_raf? I'm sorry. you're right. I did go out of line. but I'm 90% sure I have the right method because it works the same, looks the same, and theflash in the trailer almost confirmed my thoughts. but you're right. Ishould not have said that it sucks method-wise. I am sorry. I know when I'm wrong.

Anyways. As I was saying. I like Danny and his work (Except warning...but thats not a debate for today, nor this topic) but from what I've seen the effect should be released at aboiut 15$ which, in my opinion, seems fair for what it is, and what the method most-likely is. But, however, if it is a 25-30$ DVD. I really hope that it will teach an ambitous card routine, not just Fallen....
 
Oct 28, 2007
6
0
58
Guys, don't jump to conclusions on the price, content or the method until the product is listed on our site.

I've been working with Fallen for a couple of weeks now and can tell you that it's a great ACR ending. It's definitely practical and something you will use. I'm using it now as my ending and I've been doing ACR for over 25 years.

If you think you've "figured it out" and plan on using it, you owe it to Danny AND yourselves to purchase this. Danny has a lot of work on this video and the only way you're going to learn to do it correctly is from his training.

I posted a review on the Ellusionist Blog: http://blog.ellusionist.com/?p=22 so check that out.

Ambitious Card is a great, classic routine and Danny has created an elegant, natural ending for it.
 
Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
I find all the posts about how it's not worth $25 or whatever, wouldn't pay more than a couple of bucks for it, to be quite weird.

It's all about sources of value. There are three pieces to a trick.

1. Gimmick.
2. Method.
3. Presentation.

I would want #2. I may not be able to do the trick without #1. But #3 is just garbage. I don't want or need it. Indeed, if I respect you as a performer, and you show me #3 - I won't use it. That's yours. I need to get my own.

Now, there are a lot of people out there who are completely incompetent and can't do anything without #3. And we all started there, so there's no shame in that, but if I'm not one of those people - I shouldn't have to buy it!

Likewise, if I think the trick's creator did a great job and want to give him extra money - that's my decision. It shouldn't be made for me. What if I think the trick's creator did a crappy job, and I want my money back?

In the seventies, you would buy a little $2 pamphlet that had only the trick's method... and an order form in the back. That order form could usually be used to order an overpriced gimmick for performing the trick, other tricks and gimmicks from the same source, and - wonder of wonders - some sort of fan club membership. Which is another way of saying "nothing". Here's a $30 check, for nothing.

If the trick sucked, I tossed the pamphlet in the trash or gave it to someone else. Usually in trade with some other magician for another trick. I wouldn't do that with a DVD. I never go up to someone and say "trade you Matrix for Spider-Man!" - and neither does anyone else. Once it crosses the $10 line, I don't lend my stuff out at all.

On the one hand these forums, like many others, are replete with threads about exposure, stopping it, stamping it out, about giving creators their due, crediting, all that kind of stuff...but when it comes to the magic effects themselves, everyone wants them for a pittance.

When you think about it, the inventor technically got it for free. Then he spent as much time as he wanted performing it for money. Then he traded it with other brilliant creative people for more great tricks. Then he may have sold private instruction to carefully selected suckers - I mean, students.

And then he put it in my local magic shop for $30.

So all that other stuff he milked out of it isn't enough? He needs me to give him $30 for it? I don't think so. I'll do my own tricks.

As for already knowing methods and it not being worth the money, again ask yourself this: If you created it and decided to sell it via an online magic site, would you charge $5?

I would charge $2, with the gimmick available separately for $10, a $20 routine under separate cover, and a $50 fan club membership. For those who want video instruction, I'd make a $30 DVD companion.

That's over $100. If you think my trick's worth that, you can pay it. If you don't, you can pay $2 and say "that trick sucks" and throw it in the garbage. Because I'm not selling that trick to make money; I'm selling it to help you be a better magician. The money is just a nice bonus. If I'm a major contributor to this art, and I innovate sufficiently that my trick profits qualify as an income - well, I deserve it. But that isn't likely. The money just reminds me that I'm helping people, and I should keep doing it.

So you're going to expose my trick? Why? It's $2. Who cares about $2? Exposure is valuable because people think it's a $30 trick. It's not a $30 trick. It's a $2 trick with a $10 gimmick and a $20 routine. The guy on YouTube only exposed the $2 trick, and he knows it. Now you think you know a $30 trick, but you don't - you know a $2 trick, and he still has the $10 gimmick and the $20 routine.

So who's stupid? YouTube Johnny made a video and is getting credit for revealing a $30 trick, when he really revealed a $2 trick. The guy who learned from the YouTube video isn't a better magician for it. The guy who invented the trick isn't making any less money because of it. But the fans of that magician, the inventor of the trick, get all up in arms about how much this damages him.

I challenge anyone to show documented evidence that any video on YouTube has ever actually lost him money. There simply isn't any.
 
Oct 9, 2007
116
0
I challenge anyone to show documented evidence that any video on YouTube has ever actually lost him money. There simply isn't any.

What a stupid thing to say. Of course there is no documented evidence. It's just plainly obvious.

Exposure is probably 1% of the problem with magic today, people really should stop kicking up such a fuss about it. Then, hopefully, these spotty little oiks revealing everyone's tricks might not feel so controversial and stop revealing. Or, better still, they might actually grow up and realise that they are morons for shelling out money, then revealing it on the internet.

I have no idea why people do it, probably so they can get there 1337 names to be recognised on a site and be praised for being "roxor". Give me a break.
 
CDarklock,


Oh God I wish i wasn't in such a bad mood...I'd just let this slide.

You don't know me from Adam, and I know you less, so a schoolyard fight is ultimately pointless, but whatever...I've never been known for my reserve.

I don't know how old you are or even care, but seeing as this is a forum for magicians and, despite what everyone loves to think, is filled with young, impressionable people, I can't believe you would write such utter tripe.

The bit about exposure i typed was part of an overall example, no need to go off on hissy fit over it.

As for all this....?

If the trick sucked, I tossed the pamphlet in the trash or gave it to someone else. Usually in trade with some other magician for another trick. I wouldn't do that with a DVD. I never go up to someone and say "trade you Matrix for Spider-Man!" - and neither does anyone else. Once it crosses the $10 line, I don't lend my stuff out at all.

Nice to see you hold some things in high enough regard to look after them.

When you think about it, the inventor technically got it for free. Then he spent as much time as he wanted performing it for money. Then he traded it with other brilliant creative people for more great tricks. Then he may have sold private instruction to carefully selected suckers - I mean, students.

And then he put it in my local magic shop for $30.

So all that other stuff he milked out of it isn't enough? He needs me to give him $30 for it? I don't think so. I'll do my own tricks.

Admirable. Apart from this being quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever read on any magic forum...and that includes all the "Whose better than who?", "What do you think I should buy with my Christmas money?", "Criss Angel ROCKS, who here agrees??" etc, threads.

So...ha, sorry for my ignorance...so, what you're saying is, that the creator of a magic effect got his idea for free therefore he should...what? Give it away? Are you 3? 4 maybe? Do you believe in Father Christmas still?? By this rationale, everything invented, by anyone, should not be sold for anything less than a few $'s because it didn't necessarily cost anything to come up with it.

Yep...that makes perfect bloody sense.


Jesus.


This is magic mate, it ain't a Birthday Card your 5yr old scribbled at school, you scanned and then printed off a few thousand and decided to sell them at Walmart for $20 a box. It isn't a Blockbuster DVD that has already made several tens of millions and will make several tens of millions more before it ends up in the Bargain Basement Bin, 3 For $19.99.


That's over $100. If you think my trick's worth that, you can pay it. If you don't, you can pay $2 and say "that trick sucks" and throw it in the garbage. Because I'm not selling that trick to make money; I'm selling it to help you be a better magician. The money is just a nice bonus. If I'm a major contributor to this art, and I innovate sufficiently that my trick profits qualify as an income - well, I deserve it. But that isn't likely. The money just reminds me that I'm helping people, and I should keep doing it.


I'm almost scared to ask...but you're serious aren't you?
Actually...don't answer, I don't think I can take any more of this.


So you're going to expose my trick? Why? It's $2. Who cares about $2? Exposure is valuable because people think it's a $30 trick. It's not a $30 trick. It's a $2 trick with a $10 gimmick and a $20 routine. The guy on YouTube only exposed the $2 trick, and he knows it. Now you think you know a $30 trick, but you don't - you know a $2 trick, and he still has the $10 gimmick and the $20 routine.

As I said, my post wasn't about exposure...but since you decided to bring it up...

I like the way you've justified you're own rubbish argument by quoting your own rubbish arguement.


So who's stupid?

Again, even after your post...you're seriously asking, aren't you?


So who's stupid? YouTube Johnny made a video and is getting credit for revealing a $30 trick, when he really revealed a $2 trick. The guy who learned from the YouTube video isn't a better magician for it. The guy who invented the trick isn't making any less money because of it. But the fans of that magician, the inventor of the trick, get all up in arms about how much this damages him..


You know what...keep reading reading the bold part of your own post. Keep on reading...go on...and again...do you see it yet? Huh? Come on, seriously...you tellin' me you can't see it??



I challenge anyone to show documented evidence that any video on YouTube has ever actually lost him money. There simply isn't any.

What?

Evidence?

Nope...you're right there.

Brilliant.

You're name should be CSherlock.



To Jack and the other Mods, sorry if I've helped take this off topic, I really do apologise, but if I really am the only person on this board that thought the post was an horrendous disregard of...well, so many things, then I'm not only sorry for my reply, but for magic in general.


I'm done.



Rabid
 
Guys,

This thread has gone off track from its purpose into a debate. Therefore, let's stay on topic. Moreover, please refrain from fighting, arguing, or bashing other members.

Thanks.

-RA69
 
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