Jason Englands New Bottom Dealing Tutorial!!

[Gabriel Z.]

I was just searching on my phone and came across Jason Englands New Bottom Dealing Tutorial. I am definitely going to buy this immediately if not sooner. However for the time being I would love to hear everyone's thoughts....

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Can you provide a link? 90% of Theory11's site just doesn't work for me for some reason we have yet to be able to resolve.

 

[Gabriel Z.]

Here you go: https://store.theory11.com/products/bottom-deal-jason-england

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Looks good. Jason England's one of the finest card handlers in the world, and his teaching style is very detailed and easy to understand. If I were after instructions on the bottom deal, I would snatch this up.

 

[Nerv]

there is also foundations 1, which basically covers the whole concept of false dealing

 

[Gabriel Z.]

Just finished watching Bottom Deal 2.0 by Jason England. Great teacher, I walked away with a couple of new concepts regarding the bottom deal. Aside from the Erdnase, Gene Maze, and Mechanics Grips, he discusses a lot of interesting points. He talks about how you shouldn't use a small space when practicing the bottom deal, because when you get into a real situation with more space available , you're not gonna know really what to do and your bottom deal will look weird. This is something I am guilty of doing. He also covers the bomb door bottom, cigar bottom, and much much more. Moreover, you get to see his bottom deal rhythm as he sails the cards to chess pieces, mostly pawns. So much insight from the best card mechanic in the world. I highly recommend this tutorial.

 

[FunkyBottoms]

As much as I admire Jason for his brilliant handling and his propensity to be an outstanding teacher particularly in the art of table sleights, I've got an issue with him in particular.

I've learned many fine subtleties from his work which I've then worked into my own well-honed and developed table skills.

However, his hands are extraordinarily large! This, in particular, tainted heavily his first bottom deal tutorial, and while he is able to perform HIS bottom deal (v1.0 I guess?), and explained his method and grip very well, trying to work in any if it was if anything frustrating due to how his large hands were able to work a deck in a way average sized hands didn't very well.

I'm betting this v2.0 deals with that aspect of his first teaching attempt, and I'll go buy it to support Jason and out of curiosity. I love the guy, such a talent.

If you're learning a bottom deal for the first time, or are new to it, I strongly recommend Daniel Madison's work on fair/bottom/Greek dealing. One reason being that he starts off by pointing out that the grip you develop will ultimately be yours, and will not be exactly what Daniel teaches. This is crucial to developing a false deal that is as close to perfection as possible. Daniels methods are a very effective means of teaching and I recommend giving it a whirl as well. The Mechanic or his latest Erdinase by Madison are both great sources for this info.

I will definitely go grab Jason's latest offering on the subject in a moment though, thanks for pointing it out and best of luck to you!

 

[CarySchlaffman]

its a very great instructional video

 

[Jason England]

I can't bring myself to begin a piece of writing with "Dear 'Funkybottoms,'" but here goes anyways:

I do have big hands - no question about that. And big hands are a help in many card magic moves, especially palming and shifts. But in the bottom deal, my hands are actually a bit too big. My fingers are just large enough that they often get in each others' way when I'm trying to take the bottom card off. When it comes to base dealing at least, I wish my fingers were a tiny bit smaller (or at least a tad skinnier).

Regardless, I've seen Derek Delgaudio deal bottoms (beautiful), Steve Forte, Richard Turner, Ricky Jay, Steve Freeman and Gary Plants deal bottoms (all wonderful) and a handful of real-life hustlers deal bottoms (invisible). All of them had different sized hands than me and none of them have hands as large as mine.

What does all of that mean? It means that hand size isn't what they have in common. What they all have in common is hundreds of thousands of repetitions at the bottom deal. In fact, you can't show me a problem with the bottom deal that 500,000 repetitions won't solve. Do a 1,000 bottoms a day (hard but doable) and your bottom deal will be phenomenal in less than 2 years. Granted, most can't devote this much time to a single move, so let's say 200 a day and you have a phenomenal bottom in ~ 8 years (which is closer to the usual amount of time it takes most guys to get the move down).

It's all about the reps.

Jason

"Size matters not." - Yoda

 

[FunkyBottoms]

I can't bring myself to begin a piece of writing with "Dear 'Funkybottoms,'" but here goes anyways:

I do have big hands - no question about that. And big hands are a help in many card magic moves, especially palming and shifts. But in the bottom deal, my hands are actually a bit too big. My fingers are just large enough that they often get in each others' way when I'm trying to take the bottom card off. When it comes to base dealing at least, I wish my fingers were a tiny bit smaller (or at least a tad skinnier).

Regardless, I've seen Derek Delgaudio deal bottoms (beautiful), Steve Forte, Richard Turner, Ricky Jay, Steve Freeman and Gary Plants deal bottoms (all wonderful) and a handful of real-life hustlers deal bottoms (invisible). All of them had different sized hands than me and none of them have hands as large as mine.

What does all of that mean? It means that hand size isn't what they have in common. What they all have in common is hundreds of thousands of repetitions at the bottom deal. In fact, you can't show me a problem with the bottom deal that 500,000 repetitions won't solve. Do a 1,000 bottoms a day (hard but doable) and your bottom deal will be phenomenal in less than 2 years. Granted, most can't devote this much time to a single move, so let's say 200 a day and you have a phenomenal bottom in ~ 8 years (which is closer to the usual amount of time it takes most guys to get the move down).

It's all about the reps.

Jason

"Size matters not." - Yoda

Wow!! I gotta say I feel honored, and I mean that! I'd move mountains just to shake your hand, and instead I actually had one of my modern day idols reply to ME!! . AND he called me FunkyBottoms!!

Honestly Jason I do idolize you, you've taught me so much, and among many other things introduced me to Martin Nash in the process, something I'll always be grateful for and understand why you honor him so deeply. He was brilliant and so down to earth.

Everything you just said is spot on and I don't disagree with any of it. In fact, that practice regimen you just mentioned is one of many things you've taught me which I employ, though not quite that aggressive. My BD was pretty good and solid for 20 years prior to obtaining your video on it and I ate it up.

I wish I had video of me putting aside all I'd known to sort of "learn from scratch" from your first BD tut. I was so damned frustrated, I suppose partly because I was tossing out years of my own BD grip, regimen, habits (bad and good) to learn from someone I consider a modern day master and an incredible teacher who offered his tutelage. I was eager and ate it up, every morsel.

If you could see me for those 2 weeks you'd see someone who after 2 weeks of hours per day trying hard, I was very frustrated. I could not get the grip nor the variations. My thumb was short by comparison, my palm felt shallow and unable to allow or accommodate the motions necessary when compared with what I was looking at in the video. I found myself frustrated that without mastering even this, I couldn't get further.

In hindsight and in short, I felt that there was a very rigid methodology unfolding regarding the grip that I physically could not mimic, although it was all very clear and not confusing, all the angles were covered, as you truly do have a gift for instruction.

The difference for me was in the Madison video, the premise there was that one was free to take these principles, and adjust them to what works for the student, particularly the grip used.

I can recall that moment it clicked. That I was free to...expected to, change the grip to one that would work for the student while working in some boundaries and mechanics Madison built upon.

Again, dumping everything I knew and starting there, I was able to adopt a grip from that which changed my BD forever, in a good way, and was then able to go back to your video, and while my grip wasn't the same, learned many things which improved on bad habits I'd developed.

Your BD is clearly impeccable, along with every single thing I've had the privilege to see you perform or teach. Foundations are an amazing collection which I sponged up thirstily and learned. The Table Faro, the push through shuffle, many more...I've taken away so much from those.

With the BD tut I felt constrained, inept, not correctly equipped as I could not achieve the basic positions taught. Not your fault, and indeed the cadre of top talent you listed all have various hand sizes and are also impeccable, thought I don't know in a personal way whether they all employ the identical BD you teach or have developed their own as I ultimately had, and have again. If one can use your BD tut to develop even a fraction of the skill performed within, it's priceless knowledge.

I'd recommend ANY of your teachings in the blink of an eye to anyone serious about learning that material, including the BD, be it the new release or the older one. I'm indebted to you Jason for a LOT of knowledge (I'd be REALLY indebted if you could scrape up a set of those long sold out dice to sell me!! ), and I sure didn't mean to say "if you dont have large hands, don't bother". Quite the opposite, as I'm buying your latest offering because I KNOW there is a wealth of good stuff in there, and encourage others to follow suit.

For me, Madison's fair/BD/Greek offering felt as if it gave me the leeway to develop and use what seems a natural grip for me, and develop the correct skills around that grip which I indeed have, modifying my old methods around his grip style. I have today a very convincing smooth BD that I'm proud of, and was developed in combination with (and couldn't exist without) my own 20 years, your tutorial, and Daniels tutorial.

It's why I'm buying your latest offering even though I believe I already own damn near everything you've put out there ('cept for a set of those dice!!!) Cheaters on a Train 2 was so good, and your recommendations and inspirations in those tuts led me to content I cherish now.

You see Mr. England, even though that one technique didn't do it for me, it wasn't unsuccessful for me because your hands are large, it's because I couldn't get it to physically translate to my hands. I was hyper focused on relearning the BD EXACTLY as taught, dumping everything I knew by rote.

I figured I'd weigh in and share my experience not to turn people off your offering, but to perhaps help even one person who was as frustrated as I was, to another place I found solace and help, but I am anxious to get started on your new tutorial and perhaps I'm now ready to glean some more from those teachings.

I don't know if you can tell , but I admire you as one might admire a rock star or an A list actress/actor. I support you in any way I can, I feel very fortunate to be able to learn from such a talent. Talking to you even in a forum is exciting, you wrote those words to me, Funky Bottoms!!!

Thank you for EVERYTHING you've taught me over the years, for sharing your influences and friends with us, sharing your knowledge and talents so willingly. I know that so many others feel the same.

And you, sir, can call me any damned thing you like, just please don't stop teaching! .

What a thrill! Thanks for taking time to post and I can't wait to dig into this latest offering.

All my best and thanks for making my year!

Funky Bottoms.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Ever since I saw Mahdi Gilbert do his thing I've refused to let myself believe hand size matters.

Which is to say, and totally unsurprisingly, I agree with everything Jason said.

 

[Maaz Hasan]

@FunkyBottoms I think I wrote less on my AP exam lol
I guess I'd get that way if Jason England Quoted my post too.

I kinda skimmed through your posts, and here is what I think the important things to take away are. So, just in case any one is interested...

Here is the TL;DR version -
A) Everyone does things their own way. If one thing isn't working for you, try something else. There is no right or wrong way to do things
B) FunkyBottoms really looks up to Mr.England. On a scale from 1 to ten, he is sitting at a solid Ostrich... However, just because your role models do something a specific way, doesn't mean you have to, or that it will work for you.
C) Everything exists on the same plain. If someone does something very well one way, they should still be able to equally respect another method
D) Funky Bottoms clearly does not get hand cramps, as seen by this thesis presented to earn his doctrine. Smh lol

Great points though! I highly recommend people read that ... essay...
Quite Inspirational actually! Can pretty much be applied to any thing we learn.

 

[FunkyBottoms]

Maaz, I love you man. . You nailed it, made me laugh outloud, and you really are incredibly wise beyond your years. Coupled with your ability to put it down succinctly and with class, I really don't think anything will stand in your way to do whatever it is you choose to do in ways both large and small.

Thanks as always for your thoughtful, kind, and uplifting reply Maaz.

(Was it THAT obvious that I idolize Jason? . I still can't believe it, I won't EVER clean my phone screen again!!! LOL!)

 

[Jason England]

FB,

Yes, just about every difficult technique must be ultimately fit to the student's individual hand size/shape/flexibility level, etc. Just be wary of jumping ship and making rapid progress with an inferior technique instead of slower, steadier (but more frustrating) progress with a superior technique.

"Settling" for a decent bottom deal is fine for some and unacceptable for others. All of the bottom dealing masters I listed above had similar problems to what you described. Maybe not your exact problems, but similar problems. None of them dumped the difficult technique for an easier technique. They just persevered.

If you take away that lesson above all, you'll be fine.

Jason

 

[FunkyBottoms]

FB,

Yes, just about every difficult technique must be ultimately fit to the student's individual hand size/shape/flexibility level, etc. Just be wary of jumping ship and making rapid progress with an inferior technique instead of slower, steadier (but more frustrating) progress with a superior technique.

"Settling" for a decent bottom deal is fine for some and unacceptable for others. All of the bottom dealing masters I listed above had similar problems to what you described. Maybe not your exact problems, but similar problems. None of them dumped the difficult technique for an easier technique. They just persevered.

If you take away that lesson above all, you'll be fine.

Jason

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the follow-up!! I've had a chance to review the entire v2.0 BD tut and have to congratulate you on what is a much improved tutorial for a number of reasons.

I have to stop and take a moment to say what a difference 7-8 years has made in going back to a tutorial with a fresh mindset.

The funny thing is that regardless of the Madison tut, I am performing the BD as if all instruction came from you. As I'd stated in my first reply, I was so hyper focused on the hand, the space below the deck, where the thumb positioned to place pressure...ours are different only because my hand is a different size. My thumb doesn't extend up to that right corner as far, but the action is the same. The space "canoe" below the deck is more shallow than yours, again, hand size. But apparently I had adjusted those things to work for me, because I knew 15 minutes into your new tutorial that I was indeed performing it as you teach it. My left index generally sort of cups and extends to the front.

My middle left finger is dead on to what you teach. It LOOKS a bit different because of the obvious physical difference, but it's otherwise identical.

I love the explanations of the modded E grip as well as the Gene Maze grip, and finally the mechanics grip. Funny enough, I was able to do them correctly instantly with very little effort.

I think what happened is that instead of being hyper focused on comparing my hand with a deck in it to the video (what I was doing with v1.0 of the tut) and just not getting that result, over the years I let go of that a bit. It was NOT easy, nor "settling", I worked very hard to get it to where I am now which is a very solid bottom deal. Even my stud BD was identical to what you're teaching.

I really like having some options now, particularly using the mechanics grip as Forte does. The Marlo tips (bomb door and cigar bottom) are both new and LOVE them, even though not mainstay moves, VERY cool.

What shined in this new tut is the hand motions to provide cover, the changing planes. I learned that bit on the Madison tut and to see it in here validated it in stone for me as it is a part of making a natural looking deal.

Also a shining star is the alignment test. Love it, mine out of the gate impressed me with the accuracy I had and expected somewhat less impressive results. Makes me proud of the work I put in.

The original lesson from you of not settling and perseverance being crucial were right on. I've been performing the BD for about 30 years now, and after going through this new tutorial of yours it's clear to me that striving to master it has really paid dividends for me.

Lastly, there are so many good tips in here that I foresee a lot of viewing over the next few weeks as I strive to master the BD. I feel so close and more confident now after seeing the new tut and seeing all those changes I made years ago, all that hard work to lose bad habits and incorporate your teachings, came full circle.

I owe it all to you Jason. It was your BD 1.0 that made me revisit my own BD years ago and want to master it, not just settle or get by. I worked real hard to get to this level and couldn't have done it without the drive and tuts you have offered over the years.

This tut is another must have, and really does improve immensely on the first tut in many ways.

Thanks Jason, you already know I think the world of you so I won't further embarrass you or myself with lavish idolising, but eternal thanks for this tut, and especially thanks for coming out here and sparking something in me to go back to learning mode again, and pleasantly finding that I indeed already have a damn fine bottom deal, and lots of new subtleties and techniques to incorporate and master.

All my best, and if you're ever in Portland Oregon, PM me, I'd be over the moon to take you to a Morton's or Ruth's Chris or whatever your pleasure is and just talk. I know, I know, but I had to throw it out there, but I'm serious too. . Being encouraged by a genuine hero of mine, speaking to me is a bit overwhelming, sorry for the second thesis, I'm just excited. It was so out of the blue and unexpected you'd actually weigh in, it's almost surreal.

And for anyone who made it through that, this is a must have tutorial, don't wait, grab it now!

Thanks again Jason, I will be working hard on the many new things you've packed into this one, don't ever stop teaching, you are a God amongst men in your talents and knowledge, and on top of that, to have the teaching aptitude you have is a blessing for us all!!

- FB

 

[Gabriel Z.]

Sorry FunkyBottom I just had to:

 

[FunkyBottoms]

Sorry FunkyBottom I just had to:

View attachment 3191

LOL!!!!! Well played!!!

It was really amazing to watch the new tut and realize that the past 7-8 years of my BD rebirth was so in lock step, when my memory of the v1.0 tut experience was so centered on my not having large enough hands to do what Jason was teaching.

Turns out it was exactly as Jason said, and indeed it was perseverance that made it happen.

It's been a great week personally for sure, and the new tutorial is spectacular, chock full of great tips and extras that were def not in 1.0.

All the problems were in my own head after all, and I hadn't even realized I'd overcome them long ago.