losander floating table

[Magic swag]

Alright dude, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You are not going to see it my way, and I am not going to see it your way.

 

[krab]

Alright dude, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You are not going to see it my way, and I am not going to see it your way.

No this isn't agreeing to disagree, it's you not wanting to understand that you are stealing from these creators. You are taking something you did not pay for.

Here i'll post it again since you missed it the first time...

Let me quote Ricky Jay from Secrets of the Magus
from the New Yorker Magazine
by Mark Singer

"A guy comes up and starts telling me he's a fan," he recalls. "I say thank you, that's nice to hear. He says he used to see me perform in Boulder, Colorado. That's nice, too, I say. Then he starts talking about this wonderful piece I did with a mechanical monkey-really one of the most bizarre routines I ever worked out-and I thank him, and he says, `Yeah, I get a tremendous response when I do that. Audiences just love it.' And I say, `Let me ask you something. Suppose I invite you over to my house for dinner. We have a pleasant meal, we talk about magic, it's an enjoyable evening. Then, as you're about to leave, you walk into my living room and you pick up my television and walk out with it. You steal my television set. Would you do that?' He says, `Of course not.' And I say, `But you already did.' He says, `What are you talking about?' I say, `You stole my television!' He says, `How can you say that? I've never even been to your house.' This guy doesn't even know what a metaphor is. People ask me why I don't do lectures at magic conventions, and I say, `Because I'm still learning.' Meanwhile, you've got people who have been doing magic for ten months and they are actually out there pontificating. It's absurd."

 

[Luis Vega]

Building a good floating table is hard enough, making the gimmick for Dirk's table won't be easy unless you are an exceptional craftsman. The big issue is that you need to learn how to work the thing and that's not easy either. My recommendation being that you buy yourself a Zombie Ball and work with that for a good year before you buy the rather overpriced prop. . . I'm not saying that it's not a good prop, just 35% more expensive than it should be.

The problem with a floating table in today's world is that most guys treat it as they would a Zombie vs. how it's supposed to be performed. For about $800.00 you can get an excellent spirit table from Steven's Magic that is far more believable in my opinion (they have a couple of them in that range).

The other problem with making a table is that they are made of Balsa Wood which is a very expensive proposition if you aren't a skill woodworker in that most have an overlay of fine wood veneer.

Research floating/spirit tables before you think about doing this. Understand the concept and where they come from and you will find that your better path can be far less expensive and filled with fewer headaches.

True...it was really difficult to build mine... and not cheap, Balsa wood is expensive and hard to find... I spent a month just to build mine

Rick... hahha I agree, sometimes I am like "frick this s**t" and just buy the prop...but not in this case... man, be ready for the A Magician?s Journal - "Mind Over Matter", which is the journal of the theater show with photos and some videos...

 

[RickEverhart]

Can't wait Luis. Sounds great. I always look forward to hearing your Journals because I can completely relate to half of your scenarios.

 

[KeoSilver]

See the problem I have with the opinions presented so far is that a proper design on paper hasn't been fully written out yet. At least that is the impression that I'm getting since someone is phishing for information. My recommendation if you want to make your own floating table is to hit the books and as much resources on the subject of floating objects. Learn the techniques and methods other have used in the past and present and attempt to take what you've learned and apply it to the problem you are solving. Who knows maybe you'll invent the next best floating table? Maybe use the principals of Blackstone and cause your table to majestically fly over an audience, why not apply a flotation system like Sean Bogunia's rigs for a flying silk and cause the table not only to fly out into the audience but react with the audience? How about a table that vanishes in mid float via an Asrah principle? Imitation is good but innovation is better folks.

 

[Craig Browning]

So, are you saying if I saw the trailer for a new magic effect, and I figured out how to do it just from watching the trailer, and I preformed the effect to spectators without ever buying it, I would be stealing? For example, when I saw the trailer for Reflex by Patrick Kun I knew how to do it. Now I preform the effect to people, but I do not think of myself as stealing.

Many years ago, shortly after Harbin introduced the Zig Zag a man by the name of Jim Sommers built one based on this exact premise; Jim became the scorn of the magic community over night and has since ripped off the Origami Box (as the Ninja Box) and several other noted illusions. . . there was another noted builder who deliberately had cutting edge magic from Franz Harary, Stinemeyer, Ken Whitaker and others made in Mexico and he "bought them" and imported them as a salesman, so as to get around the issue of being called a thief (he'd already been sued a few times for making copies). . .

Technically, if you make a copy of something for yourself it is not theft -- TECHNICALLY. But you still have to get legal permission to perform that effect from the creator; especially in today's world when everyone thinks their intellectual property is pure gold.

When I was 16 I saw Doug Henning do the Mismade Lady. . . I loved it and figured a way of building it; mine worked perfectly and yet it didn't work the way Chuck Jones designed the original the turn key is, my design later came out as the "Improved" version of the effect (without any mention of me in the fine print). . . call it Karma, if you would. The fact is, I was performing an effect without proper permission and approval; same effect/different method doesn't seem to count.

In my era we could get away with this far easier because there wasn't a bunch of lawyer magicians making things an issue and it had been common fare for generations (just look at the history surrounding the Sawing in Half and the dozens of variations that came along within 5 years of the Sielbit introduction of it). . . we still see variants to that famed illusion coming out and technically, they are all a rip-off from the original idea. . . but most of them work differently, way differently!

The point is, since Harbin and his famed book the act of replicating an illusion has become a major taboo. Guys like John Gaughan, Bill Smith, the Owen Company, etc. established a new precedent in the mid-1980s which is more or less what we have today; magic is licensed to a specific maker and you pay for permission to perform that effect paying more in some cases, if you perform it in certain parts of the country or on television. For example; Sigfried & Roy had a 5 years exclusive when it came to Shadow Vision; no one was allowed to perform it in southern Nevada for 5 years and too, they had the U.S. Television rights to the same . . . the only other performer that had the illusion at the time was Sylvan of Italy so there really wasn't much in way of competition but they wanted to keep it that way.

When it comes to pieces that have been around forever and especially when the developer is deceased, I think the issue becomes a bit null; especially when workshop plans exist for the prop or detailed information about its construction and operation are in print and it IS NOT on the current market. Otherwise, you are stealing no matter how you want to look at it. You MUST in today's world, do the honorable thing and pay for the performance rights or else you could end up in court and paying a heck of a lot more.

 

[JudahMagic]

Also just pointing out that I dont know losander's secret and if I did build one I would be using one of my ideas. If it happens to be the same method as losander's is that still considered stealing? I think not.

ps. I have a friend who is a craftsman (He does this for a living.) He has built me several magic props in the past and we already have the plans worked out.

 

[krab]

Also just pointing out that I dont know losander's secret and if I did build one I would be using one of my ideas. If it happens to be the same method as losander's is that still considered stealing? I think not.

ps. I have a friend who is a craftsman (He does this for a living.) He has built me several magic props in the past and we already have the plans worked out.

So you went from wanting to know how they worked before you spent the money on it, then you wanted to build one (and seems like you were fishing for the method since you said in the OP you know you shouldn't ask for the method), and now you want to make one based on your own ideas so it's not stealing when in the OP you asked how they worked. Why even use the name of his table to start with. Why not ask how hard is it to build a spirit table? People would have helped with that and pointed you to the books.

 

[JudahMagic]

I read every post in this thread and nobody mentioned any books
And I discovered my own method after posting the OP

 

[krab]

I read every post in this thread and nobody mentioned any books
And I discovered my own method after posting the OP

and I said...

Why not ask how hard is it to build a spirit table? People would have helped with that and pointed you to the books.

I never said there were books posted i said had you asked.

 

[JudahMagic]

Sorry. I guess I did not read the thread so thoroughly after all.

 

[Craig Browning]

There are a number of ways for building and executing a Floating Table. Personally, even if Losander gave me one of his tables I'd never perform it because it's a magic trick and not a realistic looking spiritual phenomena. In fact, the best floating table I've seen anyone do was in Le Grand David. . . though it wasn't performed as "real" it was a clever intrigue using an Owen styled table and what's known as contact levitation, a common thing in the Victorian parlors.

I'd strongly suggest you do some searching around; Stevens Magic has at least 3 different floating table systems currently and are known to stock several other designs. BUT, if you are looking for realism, I'd suggest that you look at proper Table Tipping methods and maybe, if you have the money, build a Berglas Table (such as Copperfield used some years back).

If you just want a bit to do in your show that can come off as fun and funny Steven's sold a floating Table system several years ago that works with a traditional folding "card" table and two helpers. This can start as a semi-serious bit of business and evolve into something funny or remain serious depending on you and how you block it out. . . I think the price was around $80.00

On the other hand, I've tipped (and I believe that's how you've come up with "your own method") the idea of learning how to work with a Zombie Ball and so, if you want to waltz with the table (a major insult to the effect), that's you're best path. . . Buy the Losander table and save yourself some headaches if this is the case.

 

[rickymag]

I know im not supposed to ask about revealing a trick, but i am thinking about purchasing a Losander trinity floating table. I just want to know what im getting before i spend around $1200.

No you are not just buying the knowledge. You are buying the rights to perform the effect, rewarding the creator for coming up with the effect. Again if you think it is a waste of money to reward the people who create, what will you do when the creators stop releasing stuff because of this attitude.

So you have gone from wanting to know what you were getting for the $1200 to really fishing for info so you can build one? Building it yourself is the same as stealing. If you can't afford it then you are A) Not ready for it. B) Do not really need it. If it is something you really need for your act then you would prioritize your finances to save for the effect.

im new on this site but accusing someone of stealing is bit strong don't u think, I agree he shoulve just been honest in the first place and ask how its done ,i created my own floating table and some of my fellow magician friends as well ,for me it was easy to figure it out, never seen mr losander methods so therefore im not stealing anything at all, personally think mine fits into my routine better, im not saying mine is better, I do honestly think its best just to buy one at a reasonable price, if u cant make one or don't no the method but id never pay 2500 or 1200 that price range its grossly over price, I hope I don't sound like I have an attitude if u think that im sorry I've been a magician for a while now for the past 7 years ive been creating my own in fact one of them is in process patents in Canada and US, but anyway my point is if someone stole or copied my invention, ya id be piss off but if I sell it put it on the market I leave myself open to be copied in time to be mass produce and at cheaper price, right or wrought that reality .

 

[Lyle Borders]

No reason to bump a dead thread from over a year ago. Closed.

// L