Miller Shift Variation Feedback

JasonEngland

theory11 artist / card mechanic
Nov 7, 2008
158
26
Las Vegas, NV
Just a few clarifications:

What is being called the "Draw Shift" (as good a name as any I guess), was in print in the 1860s with illustrations. It's much, much older than Marlo. Look in Robert-Houdin's Card-Sharpers: Their Tricks Exposed for an illustration of the basic concept.

I know of about a half-dozen table shifts being done under fire. I have all but one of them on surveillance footage. Although the camera caught the moves, no one at the table snapped. You'd be surprised at what people will ride when they don't know what they're looking for or when to look. On film: the Artanis shift (2 different guys doing it), the Ping-Pong shift, the "draw" shift, the "Filipino Freddie shift" (and a variation) and a shift that I don't have a name for. All were executed at a full table, of regular poker players in a major cardroom. No one saw a thing (at the table).

You give laymen too much credit for being able to pick off moves. Don't project your knowledge and ability to spot moves onto others. When I showed my poker dealing instructor a second deal, bottom deal and a push-through shuffle, his eyes almost popped out of his head. This is a guy that's been dealing poker for 28 years and playing poker even longer than that. He said he'd heard of those moves but had never seen them before.

I have it on good authority that CM used his shift at the tables too, under very special circumstances.

maybe forte needs to re-watch his tapes. he was the one arrested for
cheating

Classy.

Jason
 

Joey144

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2007
296
111
Bavaria, Germany
you got a point there. have you tried practicing
the one handed shift. or draw shift? when done well
you wont see it. or even using a breather crimp. to
nulify the cut.
Which one handed shift are you refering to? I know one but that one happens under the shade of fixing the ante (which would proof my point that table shifts have to be done in the right context)
But I'd love to know if you are aware of a one handed shift that doesn't need that cover
Im not aware of the "Draw Shift", I have yet to get myself a copy of Buckleys Card Control

I know of about a half-dozen table shifts being done under fire. I have all but one of them on surveillance footage
But Im sure those were used once at that table and after getting everybody used to the procedure, right?
If not that would change the picture I got about those shifts, from the GPS, completly (or I missinterpreded it )
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CaseyRudd

Director of Operations
Team member
Jun 5, 2009
3,483
3,987
Charleston, SC
www.instagram.com
Hey guys

Im playing around with the miller shift alot lately
and I came up with a slight variation

http://vimeo.com/20402914

http://vimeo.com/20552448

( I reduced the sliding action in the second one)

honest feedback would be very much appreciated

regards
Joey

Very nice Joey! I love practicing this shift, and I love to see someone do it justice! Just a couple of things that I want to mention:

1. What bugs me about this shift is that you have to rotate the top stock to shift the packets. Even though this is a very minor thing, and I don't have that big of a problem with it, I don't see the point in spinning the packet to square it up. Of course this is just coming from a magician's perspective, but I would love to find a shift that does the same thing and not spin the packet. You perform it greatly though, so no problems here.

2. Maybe make the movements of the hands closer together? I see the hands separate at a good distance for a second or two. Maybe fix the shift so your hands stay at a close distance the entire time? When squaring a pack of cards, I don't think I would separate my hands at a good distance.

3. The hardest part of this move for me is flashing through my fingers. I see a little bit of flash in between the fingers at one point, but this wouldn't be enough to have a player at a table suspicious. After all, we are burning your hands through a video and we aren't at a real game with you. If we were normal laymen at a table with you, I don't think anyone would see it if they were looking for a brief second.

I know these points aren't too big at all, but it's just been thoughts that have come into my mind while working with the shift. In the action for squaring the packets after cutting the deck, I've decided to lightly dribble or spread the bottom stock on top of the previous top stock (hopefully that made sense). This way I still know where to position the hands and execute the shift, while having a reason to square up the cards in the way I do. For an additional point, act like you messed up placing the packet on top of the other one, and having it a bit messy like I explained above. This gives you the same motivation for squaring the packets.

Even though I'm not too knowledgable about gambling moves and history, I just thought I'd like to chip in some of my experience with the move. :)
 

Joey144

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2007
296
111
Bavaria, Germany
1. What bugs me about this shift is that you have to rotate the top stock to shift the packets
yes that is definitely the thing I hate the most about the mechanics
Thats why I tried to use the whole "huge action covers a small action" by introducing the sliding action

I made another video from every angle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSc5-CBuhEU

Maybe I should do the shift more quickly? Im not sure as Im afraid it draws more attention to it
 
Jan 20, 2009
343
2
California
Im am still getting people asking on the draw shift and and on handed shift.
They are written up in arthur buckleys card control pg. 107,108,109
and in marlo with out tears pg.78
What is being called the "Draw Shift" (as good a name as any I guess), was in print in the 1860s with illustrations. It's much, much older than Marlo.
I know how old it is i was simply saying were I found it written up at.



Originally Posted by rich23
maybe forte needs to re-watch his tapes. he was the one arrested for
cheating
Classy.

Jason

im not trying to be classy but thanks anyway
 
Aug 20, 2010
147
0
Practicing
He was never convicted.

For those wondering how the court systems work in the US - even if you're found innocent at trial, to even be brought to trial (or even have your case reviewed by a jury for indictment), you are arrested.

Charges were dropped on Forte. And to my knowledge, he's never actually pulled the moves at a table - atleast, that's what I see people say. I have no idea, to be honest.

I don't want to start a huge argument about this (there have been plenty already) but Steve was convicted twice before the case you are talking about. The third time he was arrested the charges were dropped.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
I don't want to start a huge argument about this (there have been plenty already) but Steve was convicted twice before the case you are talking about. The third time he was arrested the charges were dropped.

Thanks - I only knew of this case. I have no idea what the outcome of the previous two cases were.

EDIT: Here's the link to the case I was referring to:

http://www.magictimes.com/archives/2010/2010-06_07-spotlight.htm

(The link is not to an actual news article, but rather, an interview between Meir Yedid and Jason England. Must say, my favorite parts were the picture's of Forte's collection.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
Just a few clarifications:

What is being called the "Draw Shift" (as good a name as any I guess), was in print in the 1860s with illustrations. It's much, much older than Marlo. Look in Robert-Houdin's Card-Sharpers: Their Tricks Exposed for an illustration of the basic concept.

I know of about a half-dozen table shifts being done under fire. I have all but one of them on surveillance footage. Although the camera caught the moves, no one at the table snapped. You'd be surprised at what people will ride when they don't know what they're looking for or when to look. On film: the Artanis shift (2 different guys doing it), the Ping-Pong shift, the "draw" shift, the "Filipino Freddie shift" (and a variation) and a shift that I don't have a name for. All were executed at a full table, of regular poker players in a major cardroom. No one saw a thing (at the table).

You give laymen too much credit for being able to pick off moves. Don't project your knowledge and ability to spot moves onto others. When I showed my poker dealing instructor a second deal, bottom deal and a push-through shuffle, his eyes almost popped out of his head. This is a guy that's been dealing poker for 28 years and playing poker even longer than that. He said he'd heard of those moves but had never seen them before.

I have it on good authority that CM used his shift at the tables too, under very special circumstances.



Classy.

Jason

Mr. England, thanks for clarifying above.

On an off-topic note... I've heard that the Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook by Mason Malmuth is one of the standard texts on dealing used at a lot of dealing schools. What are your thoughts on it?
 

JasonEngland

theory11 artist / card mechanic
Nov 7, 2008
158
26
Las Vegas, NV
I've heard that the Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook by Mason Malmuth is one of the standard texts on dealing used at a lot of dealing schools. What are your thoughts on it?

It's a good book that I used when I was going through dealing school here in Vegas several years ago. Recently I needed to revisit that book for a project and found it to be very useful for me.

Jason
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results