My Thoughts on Magic... In General

Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about our art. Not just what new tricks, books, or DVDs I should buy, but at the actual art. Things like, where is it taking us, how is it advancing, is it too open, is it too secretive? I'm going to explore these questions here, and hopefully it'll start some good conversations.

First off, there are a lot of people in our art... more than a lot of us could, or would want to, count. However, in relative comparison to other arts, like dancing, singing, and painting, there are very few who share our love of magic. Let's discuss these numbers a bit.

Some people think our art is too open... that anyone these days can go on the internet and "become a magician". I can see this, but will they truly be a magician if they just look up tricks on YouTube and other exposure-filled sites? No. Will those videos, or those who perform the effects from those videos truly hurt our art? In a way, yes. But for the most part, no, they will not.

Think about it. How many times have you actually had a spectator, in the middle of your performance, call you out saying, "I saw that on YouTube!" Odds are I have many of you struggling to find a memory that just isn't there.

Now think about how many new magicians we have. A relatively small amount these days. And when someone does ask us more experienced magicians where to start, and for some advice, we hole up and tell them to go buy books. I myself have done this before, but it's not right. We should welcome them into our art with open arms.

The only people really watching those videos are magicians. Bad ones at that, but ones that are too cheap to buy the material, yet still consider themselves "Gods with cards". We are a very small "brotherhood", and we are literally destroying our art from the inside.

Now, I think I've discussed that enough. Any further and it would be beating a dead horse. The next thing I want to talk about is presentation. Throughout the small number of new magicians we have in our art, there are even less who value the presentation of the effect as much as the more experienced magi do.

They fail to to realize that, yes, the effect may be great, fool-proof, "gets great reactions", but what is a trick without a magician? Recently I've been thinking about something. That without magicians... magic does not exist. Yes, there would still be gimmicks, tricks, DVDs, books, but without us to perform them... there would be no such thing as magic.

It's a sad thought, really, that as much as we focus on the tricks, we put so much effort into having the best Pass, or the smoothest Bottom Deal, that we put less and less thought into our presentations. Until we become boring drones with cool tricks. What fun is that?

I think we, as a whole, often forget that magic is not a competition to be better than your fellow magi, it is to entertain the lay! If you're better than somebody, and you realize it, don't rub it in their faces... help them out! They're never going to get any better if we don't help them. And there goes yet another magician who could be the next great in magic...

And now to my final question... how is our art advancing? Are we really getting anywhere? Sure, there are lots of new things on the market, new magic stuff... more things than I could possibly count. But is it a good thing? It gives us more to choose from, but the majority of the products haven't been thought through, field tested, and really planned out before being released.

With the internet and all the new technology developing around us, we tend to forget about the real shops... the people that we can always count on. Our local Brick 'n Mortar shops. We're quite literally putting them out of business by buying from stores like t11, Penguin, and Ellusionist. I am not saying this is a bad thing, as all those stores are fairly good. But what are we going to do if we lose our internet, and our local stores go out of business? We will be stuck... no new magic.

Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like our art is really going anywhere. All the little guys, like your local restaurant or children's party magicians are helping our art immensely, but as much as they put us forward, people like Criss Angel and the YouTube are setting us back that much more.

Please, feel free to discuss anything I wrote here, as these are only the things that I have been feeling recently. Thanks for reading.
 
Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about our art.

Crap, are you following me around? ;)

Seriously, I think a lot of these same things, and in the three posts I've made here - on my first day in the forum - I've alluded to a couple of these points.

I don't know that it's really important to answer these questions, so long as we make sure people ask them. I don't have the answer to how much time and effort you should spend helping new magicians and buying from local magic shops; only you do, and whatever your answer is, I probably shouldn't measure your answer against mine.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
True, and I agree, it's probably more important that we are asking these questions, even if we don't answer them. Thanks for responding, though.
 
First off, there were some really good points in there.

The fact that you tell new magi to go read books is a good thing and great advice, but only if you tell them WHICH books to read.

I personally believe that the magicians that are really into magic and truly love it would rather get a brick n' mortar shop. I know I would. It's not just the effects you buy its the people you meet and network with. This is something that has to be taught to new magi.

Lastly, I don't think that Criss Angel is setting magic back at all. He is bringing it into full public view and it helps performers to get more jobs becuase people want to see it up close. And he may not be the best magician to us (which he certainly isn't to anyone) but as you said before, he is entertaining the lay people. His job is to entertain, the same as the rest of us, but he does it in a different manner.

Nice post otherwise

peace
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
Well, you're the first person I've talked to that has actually had that happen, Cory.

And btaylor, yes, Criss is performing magic and entertaining people, but... what about his little stunt on Phenomenon? What did that do to further our art. Unfortunately, a lot of lay people agreed with what he did. It gives them a false impression of our art. It makes them think that,if they were to get into it, they could heckle other magicians, as well. As for me... I lost what little respect I had for him the moment he did that.
 
Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
what about his little stunt on Phenomenon?

I think how you view that depends rather strongly on whether you believe Callahan is a fraud and worthy of exposure as a fraud, which I do.

It all has to do with the demographic. Callahan was playing to an older audience, an audience of which he could - if he chose - take massive advantage. Callahan's schtick lends itself well to swindling old ladies out of their savings.

Criss Angel plays primarily to teens and young adults, and no matter how much he swears he has supernatural powers, nobody in his audience will believe him.

Now, personally, I still object to Criss portraying his act as supernatural. But the consequences are simply not the same between the two acts, and Callahan poses a significant threat that Criss doesn't.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
No, Callahan does not. No matter what you say, Criss was acting like an arrogant little brat that couldn't stand to see someone in the spotlight other than himself. Callahan was portraying a character for that performance, and if he wanted to take that character into his everyday life... that's fine! He is not hurting anybody by any means. He is not taking their money, or cheating them out of anything... he is merely entertaining them.

And please, don't get me started on him challenging Uri Gellar, as well. No, I do not agree with everything Uri has done, but considering he is the creator of the show, and more than likely invited Criss to be a host, Criss was very much out of his place challenging him like that.

Criss is hurting this art a lot more than Callahan because of his cut scenes where he has to do sleights... his camera tricks... his stooges. All that nonsense that he claims to be magic. I'm sorry, but Criss' act just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I have absolutely no respect for him anymore.
 
Nov 2, 2007
246
0
Norway
art man! art is so cool. i love art. art is the best. i mean art is like totally awesome. art did you here me? art.

It's like you are stoked about doing something that can be called an art.

I remember some years ago I was posting often on this skateboarding forum. Every now and then someone posted like "skateboarding is an art yo!" etc.
It really annoyed me. It's not an art it's a damn wooden plank with wheels that you do tricks with damn it.
Magic is just you trying to fool people and when your trick works you think "OH YES IT TOTALLY WORKED I'M SO AWESOME!!" while casually smiling and laughing with the audience.

On a serious note.

I think people are too obsessed with the newest stuff(by just reading on these forums). OH MAN CAN'T WAIT FOR WAYNE HOUCHIN'S CONTROL IT WILL BE SO AWESOME. Yet they have only been doing magic for a year or two. I bet they don't know the 100000 magic tricks out already that would be PERFECTLY suitable for whatever they are doing. Nope sorry mac, but I must have the newest hyped up stuff.

Who was it that said doing 10 tricks flawlessly is better than doing 100 tricks mediocre?
 
Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
Callahan was portraying a character for that performance, and if he wanted to take that character into his everyday life... that's fine!

I do not agree.

Jim Callahan is telling middle-aged and elderly people that he can connect with the spirit world and speak to the dead.

Middle-aged and elderly people have been known to pay con men large sums of money to speak with their lost loved ones.

It does not matter whether Jim Callahan himself does this. By portraying this common con game as reality in front of his audience, he assists those con artists in running their scams. What these people need to hear is that nobody - NOBODY - can speak to these lost loved ones on their behalf.

What he tells people instead is dangerous. It destroys lives.

And since Callahan will inevitably be yesterday's news and wondering where he can get his next paycheck, I don't trust him with the moral responsibility of saying "I will not move to Florida and swindle old ladies". I don't believe he would say that. I believe he would pack right up and head for Miami. The character he portrays is an audacious lie, and we are supposed to believe it is only coincidentally the critical foundation of a con game as old as dirt? Please.

Criss is hurting this art a lot more than Callahan

I see an awful lot of people in the "three favorite magicians" thread saying Criss Angel inspired them to learn magic, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on whether he should be allowed to practice magic. At the very least, he's bringing us new magicians, and we need them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like him, and I think we'd be better off without him - but I know the difference between personal enmity and moral obligation.
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
Recently, I've been thinking a lot about our art. Not just what new tricks, books, or DVDs I should buy, but at the actual art. Things like, where is it taking us, how is it advancing, is it too open, is it too secretive? I'm going to explore these questions here, and hopefully it'll start some good conversations.

Yes sir =)

First off, there are a lot of people in our art... more than a lot of us could, or would want to, count. However, in relative comparison to other arts, like dancing, singing, and painting, there are very few who share our love of magic. Let's discuss these numbers a bit.

Some people think our art is too open... that anyone these days can go on the internet and "become a magician". I can see this, but will they truly be a magician if they just look up tricks on YouTube and other exposure-filled sites? No. Will those videos, or those who perform the effects from those videos truly hurt our art? In a way, yes. But for the most part, no, they will not.

I'm guessing this is about exposure and such. Honestly, exposure truely doesn't hurt our art in that big of a sense that people make it out to be. Yes, it is very annoying and a terrible thing to do with someones hard, hard work. But in a whole, it doesn't effect MAGIC that much.

Of course if someone goes onto the internet and watches magic videos, that doesn't make them a magician.

I can honestly say I am not a magician... yet. I believe it takes years to become a magician. It is something I take seriously and isn't just a title. A lot more of what and why I think this is written about in this article (Not written by me) Over at Bunny Boy called The Seriousity of it all... http://bunnyboycollective.com/news/ .


Think about it. How many times have you actually had a spectator, in the middle of your performance, call you out saying, "I saw that on YouTube!" Odds are I have many of you struggling to find a memory that just isn't there.

Now think about how many new magicians we have. A relatively small amount these days. And when someone does ask us more experienced magicians where to start, and for some advice, we hole up and tell them to go buy books. I myself have done this before, but it's not right. We should welcome them into our art with open arms.

Ahem.

I agree with the point that exposure on youtube doesn't really affect the audience we perform for. Because laymen really don't look it up. My audience ranges from 17- about 80. Do you honestly think these people care to look on youtube or exposure at all? No. I don't have to worry about it. But that doesn't mean I don't care... Because it is affecting MAGIC.

Open them into our art with open arms? Are you saying that we should just give them the secrets? I hope not. Tell them to buy a book. If they don't, they shouldn't be trying to get into this art anyway. If they do, they might just be ready to put the time and work into this art. (Which MANY MANY of the people here... everywhere don't seem to understand.)


The only people really watching those videos are magicians. Bad ones at that, but ones that are too cheap to buy the material, yet still consider themselves "Gods with cards". We are a very small "brotherhood", and we are literally destroying our art from the inside.

Yes. True, the only people watching the exposure videos are "Magicians" (whatever you want to call "them", because magicians isn't what they are.) BUT this is affecting MAGIC. They are performing BADLY. This turns those people that are watching them away. Think about it. You perform for someone who has seen these "exposure tricksters" and hated it... I don't blame them. But do you think they would want to waste there time watching YOUR magic after seeing what they have? It's basically a bad first impression. You wouldn't want to see it again. So you say no.

THIS IS HURTING MAGIC.





Now, I think I've discussed that enough. Any further and it would be beating a dead horse.

I agree =)

The next thing I want to talk about is presentation. Throughout the small number of new magicians we have in our art, there are even less who value the presentation of the effect as much as the more experienced magi do.

Small number of "new magicians" ? I would say a lot more than a small amount.


They fail to to realize that, yes, the effect may be great, fool-proof, "gets great reactions", but what is a trick without a magician? Recently I've been thinking about something. That without magicians... magic does not exist. Yes, there would still be gimmicks, tricks, DVDs, books, but without us to perform them... there would be no such thing as magic.

It's a sad thought, really, that as much as we focus on the tricks, we put so much effort into having the best Pass, or the smoothest Bottom Deal, that we put less and less thought into our presentations. Until we become boring drones with cool tricks. What fun is that?

"What is a trick without a magician"? Was a question you asked above. I would like to ask a different question. What is a trick without presentation? Well, it is exactly what you called it. A trick. A TRICK without presentation is what I call... a trick. It is nothing but a quick puzzle to show your audience. Now an EFFECT with PRESENTATION and MEANING is something that the audience FEELS. Not something you are just showing. But the audience feels it. It has an effect on them. They won't forget it.

Of course magic doesn't exist without Magicians. But do magicians exist without the magic? NO. Stop giving the magicians all of the credit. I feel that Most magicians are in love with themselves. If someone gives them criticism, they get crushed. They won't admit that they need it. They fail. Literally. But those that accept it, they are the ones that will be able to create real magic. Sure the magicians are the ones that create all of the magic the audience sees and such. But they aren't feeling the magician. (heh) They are feeling the magic. The magician just creates the magic.

The reason "they" (I won't call them magicians...) are just performing tricks is because they have no presentation, acting skills or any sense of what needs to be done in their performances at all. They are lazy. SO, they end up performing these little puzzles that amuse people for a quick 5 minutes. Would you rather be performing a puzzle that gets forgotten 5 minutes later? Or magic, that is remembered forever?

PM me when you would like to learn the latter.

I think we, as a whole, often forget that magic is not a competition to be better than your fellow magi, it is to entertain the lay! If you're better than somebody, and you realize it, don't rub it in their faces... help them out! They're never going to get any better if we don't help them. And there goes yet another magician who could be the next great in magic...

I completely agree. Very well said.

And now to my final question... how is our art advancing? Are we really getting anywhere? Sure, there are lots of new things on the market, new magic stuff... more things than I could possibly count. But is it a good thing? It gives us more to choose from, but the majority of the products haven't been thought through, field tested, and really planned out before being released.

"Is our art advancing?" No.

Not now. Magic is at a terrible point. It needs a hard kick from reality and be turned around. But how? WE the people that make the magic need to change it. FORGET ABOUT THE PRODUCTS. These don't further magic. The magicians further the magic. The way they do it. That changes magic.

With the internet and all the new technology developing around us, we tend to forget about the real shops... the people that we can always count on. Our local Brick 'n Mortar shops. We're quite literally putting them out of business by buying from stores like t11, Penguin, and Ellusionist. I am not saying this is a bad thing, as all those stores are fairly good. But what are we going to do if we lose our internet, and our local stores go out of business? We will be stuck... no new magic.

Hm. Yes, I love Brick n' Mortar shops. Always will. BUT the internet is just another source, just like the brick n' mortar shops. USE THEM BOTH.



CONTINUED....
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
From above...

One thing I want to really point out here, so I will under line it:

But what are we going to do if we lose our internet, and our local stores go out of business? We will be stuck... no new magic.


Woah now buddy. If we lose our internet. I could care less. If we lose our local stores. I could care less. Don't think of this in a bad way. I love both of them. I learn a lot from both. A LOT. BUT, magic will not stop if magic is not being sold. STOP RELYING ON THE INTERNET WEBSITES AND BRICK N' MORTAR STORES. Rely on YOU. Your CREATIVITY, MIND, and your own magic. Use your mind. It can create some of the best magic in the world.



Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't seem like our art is really going anywhere. All the little guys, like your local restaurant or children's party magicians are helping our art immensely, but as much as they put us forward, people like Criss Angel and the YouTube are setting us back that much more.

Please, feel free to discuss anything I wrote here, as these are only the things that I have been feeling recently. Thanks for reading.


Thank you for writing this up. It reminds me how much I need to work to try and move our art forward, instead of letting it sit in place. This makes me feel sorry for those that don't work for this art. I mean, if it's just a hobby for you, great. If you don't care. Cool. Just don't ruin this art.

It makes me feel bad for those that relies on others to create magic for them....

Also, If it sounds like I'm a bit cocky, I am really not. I know how much work I need to put in (years and years) and I am NOWHERE near where I want to be. I don't think I'm the greatest in the world ;)

Thanks!!!

Keenan
 
Aug 31, 2007
308
0
California
No, Callahan does not. No matter what you say, Criss was acting like an arrogant little brat that couldn't stand to see someone in the spotlight other than himself. Callahan was portraying a character for that performance, and if he wanted to take that character into his everyday life... that's fine! He is not hurting anybody by any means. He is not taking their money, or cheating them out of anything... he is merely entertaining them.

Ok really quickly,

Callahan was claiming he could speak to the dead. People like him take peoples money and mess with their emotions. They can ruin peoples lives letting them believe that they can speak to the dead, while taking their money.

Your telling me that this is ok?

Wow.

He is cheating them out of their beliefs, money, and emotions. I have full Respect for Criss after he did this.



Criss is hurting this art a lot more than Callahan because of his cut scenes where he has to do sleights... his camera tricks... his stooges. All that nonsense that he claims to be magic. I'm sorry, but Criss' act just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I have absolutely no respect for him anymore.

Camera tricks... Stooges.

WHO CARES? It is tv MAGIC. It is just entertainment right? You said above that what Callahan was doing was JUST ENTERTAINMENT. So who cares if he used camera tricks and stooges.

It is just another gimmick, just like a TT that lets people see something they cannot believe. No matter the method.

You say it is just entertainment. Yet you say Criss is hurting magic by using stooges and camera tricks.

Hypocritical?

I think so.

Keenan
 
Umm, Keenan G

We should have started a thread just for you I think you just took a whole page up on your responses. haha:D

Like quoted before,
"I think people are too obsessed with the newest stuff(by just reading on these forums). OH MAN CAN'T WAIT FOR WAYNE HOUCHIN'S CONTROL IT WILL BE SO AWESOME. Yet they have only been doing magic for a year or two. I bet they don't know the 100000 magic tricks out already that would be PERFECTLY suitable for whatever they are doing. Nope sorry mac, but I must have the newest hyped up stuff.

Who was it that said doing 10 tricks flawlessly is better than doing 100 tricks mediocre?"

This hit the nail on the head. While I'll agree with the fact that without magicians there is no magic it goes the other way as well. Presentation makes the magic happen other than that your just doing a trick. We should focus more on helping each other than smashing each other to little bits. This is a growing problem among magic clubs right now. I see a lack of acceptation to amateurs causing them to be discouraged enough to quite before they even break dirt in this thing we call magic. I'm sick of the childish fighting and lack of concern for your fellow brother. I believe its this standard that creates self absorbed entertainers that may or may not be the main cause for exposure. All I'm saying is be more helpful and others will treat the art with respect.

Peace.:)
 
Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
I'm sick of the childish fighting and lack of concern for your fellow brother.

I think the only way to fix this is to fix it.

Next time you're at a club or a convention or whatever, ask someone to show you how they do some very basic thing. Show how you do it, and honestly confess any trouble you had learning it. See if you can pick up any tips on it.

I mean, it's one thing not to offer, but what do you do if someone asks? Like if I walked up to you and said "hey, how do you hold the deck for a glide? I always feel like I have too much finger movement" - demonstrating... how could you refuse to help? Isn't pretty much any refusal you make like saying "up yours, I'm a big jerk"?

If nothing else, it will make the problem visible. I'll try this at my next meeting on the 27th.
 
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