My Thoughts on Magic... In General

[robotsunshine]

The big problem is that lots of magicians theorize, debate, and craft philosophies on why magic is going downhill instead of trying to fix it. You'll see a million topics discussing magic's problems, but at the end, no one really tries to solve what's wrong.

How about gathering ten of your best tricks and actually heading out and meeting new people - emphasis on meeting them - and then performing for them? How about discussing a different aspect of magic in long, powerful debates, like why coin tricks are so great, or whether or not you have a "character" and what he or she's like? Why not experiment with different performance styles? How about putting the cards away? Or laying off the "sleights only" rule and realizing it's the performance that's impressive, and laymen don't care about technique? Why not admit that your double lift is atrocious and learn a new one? Pretend that YOU, you alone, are the problem with magic, and point out all your flaws. How will you actively solve them?

Instead of buying your next trick, why not make it yourself?

Do you keep a magic notebook? Could you buy a camera and film thirty minutes of you not just doing magic, but interacting with interesting people, and performing art (and no, you can't call it art if it's just "a really good trick")?

My new year's resolution is to devote much of my spare time to learning and perfecting new, unusual, or forgotten material. Then I'm nabbing a camera and some props. I want to put my money where my mouth is.

(Note that the questions above target a different audience, and I'm not lumping everyone together. Some questions above may apply to you, some won't. You know if you fit each catagory The point is experimentation and action, instead of reaction.)

 

[SHANE BLACK]

I think the only way to fix this is to fix it.

Next time you're at a club or a convention or whatever, ask someone to show you how they do some very basic thing. Show how you do it, and honestly confess any trouble you had learning it. See if you can pick up any tips on it.

I mean, it's one thing not to offer, but what do you do if someone asks? Like if I walked up to you and said "hey, how do you hold the deck for a glide? I always feel like I have too much finger movement" - demonstrating... how could you refuse to help? Isn't pretty much any refusal you make like saying "up yours, I'm a big jerk"?

If nothing else, it will make the problem visible. I'll try this at my next meeting on the 27th.

Let me know how it works out for you and I will try the same.

 

[CDarklock]

The big problem is that lots of magicians theorize, debate, and craft philosophies on why magic is going downhill instead of trying to fix it. You'll see a million topics discussing magic's problems, but at the end, no one really tries to solve what's wrong.

This is a general issue everywhere. A friend of mine - an economist - said you can determine your value to any community by asking two simple questions:

1. What is the single biggest problem facing this community?
2. What am I personally doing to solve that problem?

If you can't answer both of those questions during the course of an elevator ride, something is wrong. (Spot-checking yourself is also a good way to pass the time in elevators.)

Pretend that YOU, you alone, are the problem with magic, and point out all your flaws. How will you actively solve them?

Um... I hate to seem dense about this, but... if you actually have to say this out loud, what exactly are people DOING?

Instead of buying your next trick, why not make it yourself?

I've never bought a trick. Ever.

I'm at war with myself over this, because I really want some of these tricks. I keep saying to myself, "I could use the core of that trick to make my own tricks". I keep saying "I suck, I need to buy a trick that would make me not suck". My card handling is basically a few false cuts and shuffles and a passable - but not good - double lift. I can't do a whole lot with this, so I look at some of the things I can buy out there, and I sure wish I could do something like that.

But then I couldn't say "I've never bought a trick" anymore. And I've never seen a trick that was worth that trade.

 

[robotsunshine]

I guess that's a matter of personal opinion, but I've seen some amazing looking stuff out there, with incredibly genius methods, that I'm happy I bought, and wouldn't mind crediting others with (not during a performance or anything, I doubt laymen care about all that). Or some techniques or ideas, like you mentioned, which put a valuable spin on something I already had worked out.

It's dependant on the person, seems. I can also watch the Garcia Project and be amazed at all that Danny created and structured. And when he talks about Greed, and how he came up with it when he was, what, 13 or so? I imagine he's like that, crafting effects and routines and staying away from pre-packaged stuff. A wandering collection of brilliant ideas. It's a very prized position to be in, I just don't think I'm ready for that.

Here's my personal elevator ride, just for discussion:

1. The biggest problem, I think, is that magic CAN be an art, but currently isn't. A symphony can produce beauty, but a guy with a broken trumpet and no fingers makes a terrible noise.
2. I want to solve this by presenting magic as art in a unique and compelling way, hopefully inspiring others to do the same. If I can prove to myself it can be done, perhaps others will try, too (I realize I'm not the first to make an artistic statement with magic, but I see it happening so rarely these days)

 

[CDarklock]

I guess that's a matter of personal opinion, but I've seen some amazing looking stuff out there

Oh, don't get me wrong, there's fantastic stuff out there. I just think it's far better to invent and trade tricks than it is to buy them. If you buy a trick, you had some money. If you trade a trick you invented for a trick someone else invented, you had a great trick. It's the single best review you can get - another magician actually wanted your trick.

Not that this ever actually happens to me. It's a long view: I expect that one day, I will be doing amazing stuff in front of someone who's just getting started, and he'll ask me which tricks he should buy. And then I can say "I've never bought a trick." Then I'll show him some trick I learned early on, and point him toward a good place to learn the moves I used to create it.

More reliably, one day, I will tell my sons I've never bought a trick.

I imagine he's like that, crafting effects and routines and staying away from pre-packaged stuff. A wandering collection of brilliant ideas. It's a very prized position to be in, I just don't think I'm ready for that.

I'm not really ready for it, either. I just think it's one of those things that you have to do before you're ready, or you'll never be ready. Kind of like the first time you try to juggle... you're going to be bad at it for a long time. You may never be good at it (I'm certainly not). But if you don't start, you'll definitely never be good at it. And the sooner you start, the sooner you'll be good.

The biggest problem, I think, is that magic CAN be an art, but currently isn't.

I agree this is a problem, but not the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem in our art is cynicism, and the way we infect others with it. We don't show other people our best tricks, we don't give other people our best ideas, and we don't help other people improve... unless we get paid.

Ironically, this is an artistic problem; it's the problem we have in graphic arts, literary arts, the music industry, it's everywhere. But it's a problem that only happens in artistic fields. And when you say magic can be an art but isn't, that's evidence of the cynicism. It's a symptom.

What I'm doing about it is saying "it doesn't have to be like this, you know". People don't like to be cynics. It's a miserable way to live. They do it because they think they don't have a choice. I try to set the example, so others will follow suit.

 

[robotsunshine]

So do you think if we had a more communal attitude, we could eliminate this cynicism? We do have a personal video section here - perhaps if we used it for constructive criticism and a showcase for self invention? Nothing beats a magic community you can see face to face, people you can get together with for hour-long lunches and bounce ideas back and forth. Unfortunately, not all of us have that, so forums fill the role for us.

The reason I say magic, in my eyes, hasn't reached artistic status, is because I only ever see performances of the same tricks everywhere with the same canned performance and carbon-copied scripts. I don't see a lot of experimentation or creativity. In a way, it's related to you never buying a trick - most of us buy too much. The magicians I admire are those that make a variety of tricks - emphasis on the fact that they made it. So I can understand the mentality there.

The magicians I consider artists fall into two schools: performance and creativity. I like Blaine because of his performance and ideas - he had people believing in his consistent "urban shaman" (to quote his book) image, and it was a refreshing change from the characters seen until then. Then there's people like Paul Harris and Wayne Houchin who create strong, clever tricks, and I have to consider them artists because they advance beyond what's already out there, engineering effects that amaze people and are efficient and clean to perform. The performers find new ways to exhibit the art, and the creators find new ways to use the art. Presentation and innovation. Art needs both to thrive.

So, if we have artists in the field, we must have art, right? I'm challenging my beliefs. I can say we have an art that isn't being utilized to its full potential, like a musician who only explores one sound. Too many people doing the same thing is called being stagnant. If you find your niche with that one sound and it's beautiful, great. Others, though, need to experiment so we can discover new sounds, new genres. It calls attention to the art and promotes its power.

So for me, instead of my earlier statement, the biggest problem really seems to be too little variety: in performance, in medium, in tricks. Though, I'm not particularly active with other magicians on a trade level, mostly just as a spectator. I know the cynicism is there, I just don't experience it so much first hand, and unlike you, it's not my biggest problem. It begs the question though - is the fact that I haven't gotten involved in the cynicism just another way of being a cynic? Maybe you have to be open even when the opportunity doesn't present itself.

 

[CDarklock]

So do you think if we had a more communal attitude, we could eliminate this cynicism?

I don't know. I think the cynicism comes from the sheer size of the industry. When you only have hundreds of people doing something, they all know about one another. But once you have millions, it's just a massive sea of crap. The inner circle - the hundreds who all know one another - always seems to have the right attitude, that this may be a sea of crap, but all the greats floated out of it at some point... and you can never tell who the next one is going to be.

What's difficult is to keep that level of optimism when you're still floating in a sea of crap and wondering whether you're always going to be just another turd.

I only ever see performances of the same tricks everywhere with the same canned performance and carbon-copied scripts. I don't see a lot of experimentation or creativity.

I agree, this is because of purchased tricks. Buy a fish, learn to fish - that kind of thing. I'm certainly thinking about the meta-question and how to cash in on it. (Hey, I gotta eat.) I'd like to come up with some way to reliably inspire creativity without being something you could just copy. A simple and basic method that anyone can use. That would be cool.

So for me, instead of my earlier statement, the biggest problem really seems to be too little variety: in performance, in medium, in tricks.

Well, it seems pretty obvious how you could solve THAT.

Lately, I've been toying with the idea of performing "Who's on First" with cards. I've never seen that done. I have some ideas of how to do it, but I don't yet have the skill to implement my ideas; I'm going to work on it a while and see if I can't solve that problem. I'm actually hoping I can turn it into a ten minute mini-show over the next three weeks, which will probably never happen, but I'm going to try. It would really rule if I could just crack my knuckles, pull out a deck of cards, start the tape... and just provide a visual accompaniment to the whole routine in real time.

That's another thing about this kind of stuff. I first learned the double lift because I needed it for a trick I made up; I went looking for new false shuffles because I looked boring doing the same one all the time. It's the art that drives the skill and the skill that drives the art, and it's all very circular and interrelated. Just trying to make this trick work is going to mean I have to learn new things, and whether I make this trick happen or not, I end up better for trying.

It's all about being outrageous and interesting and thinking outside the box. Once you know how to do that, nobody can steal it. Nobody can take it from you. The value of your work drops away from what you've done, and becomes attached to what you are going to do. Because even if you take this idea and go create the exact same thing, we'll each have a different trick. No matter how many people go off and do this, they'll all be different. They'll vary with skill, with experience, with personal preference, with expected audience. They would all be new tricks.

And you don't have to stop there. "I don't like Abbott and Costello," you might think, "I'm going to use someone more recent, like George Carlin." That's new, too. Or you could use music - you might reinterpret Britney Spears' "Hit Me One More Time" as an extended blackjack pun.

Endless possibilities. It's not just a phrase, it's actually true. After all, this isn't limited to cards...

 

[adjones]

Ok really quickly,

Callahan was claiming he could speak to the dead. People like him take peoples money and mess with their emotions. They can ruin peoples lives letting them believe that they can speak to the dead, while taking their money.

Your telling me that this is ok?

Wow.

He is cheating them out of their beliefs, money, and emotions. I have full Respect for Criss after he did this.

Yes, as long as it was the character he was portraying, and he didn't take it out of that character, which he did not, and it was for entertainment purposes ONLY, it's FINE!!! Criss acted like an arrogant little child who had his candy taken away. He deserves no respect from any magician... period. Ask any professional magician, and I'm sure they will agree with me.

In case you're uneducated in the Magician's Code of Ethics, it states in there that no magician will heckle another magician. Funny, because to me, it seems like that's what Criss did. And you people keep commenting on the little old ladies... think about it... how many little old ladies are truly going to be watching Phenomenon? It got horrible ratings, and I'm sure the only people watching it were magicians, so I think the little old ladies are safe for now.

What about other magicians and mentalists? We claim all the time to have magic powers, that we can read minds, and all that jazz. I'm sure you have, too. I've done it a few times... I'm sure all of us have at some point. No, it may not be completely right, but it's our character. People expect us to act that way.

I'm sorry, but Criss was way out of line, and the only people that agree with him are his fanboys.

Open them into our art with open arms? Are you saying that we should just give them the secrets? I hope not. Tell them to buy a book. If they don't, they shouldn't be trying to get into this art anyway. If they do, they might just be ready to put the time and work into this art. (Which MANY MANY of the people here... everywhere don't seem to understand.)

Nowhere did I say tell them all the secrets. I tell all new magicians to buy a book. I meant help them out. I find a lot of older magicians not welcoming new magicians. They refuse to help out, and they don't realize that new magicians are the future of our art. Yes, books are great, but what's better than having a mentor there to teach you and help you out? Nothing!

"What is a trick without a magician"? Was a question you asked above. I would like to ask a different question. What is a trick without presentation? Well, it is exactly what you called it. A trick. A TRICK without presentation is what I call... a trick. It is nothing but a quick puzzle to show your audience. Now an EFFECT with PRESENTATION and MEANING is something that the audience FEELS. Not something you are just showing. But the audience feels it. It has an effect on them. They won't forget it.

Of course magic doesn't exist without Magicians. But do magicians exist without the magic? NO. Stop giving the magicians all of the credit. I feel that Most magicians are in love with themselves. If someone gives them criticism, they get crushed. They won't admit that they need it. They fail. Literally. But those that accept it, they are the ones that will be able to create real magic. Sure the magicians are the ones that create all of the magic the audience sees and such. But they aren't feeling the magician. (heh) They are feeling the magic. The magician just creates the magic.

The reason "they" (I won't call them magicians...) are just performing tricks is because they have no presentation, acting skills or any sense of what needs to be done in their performances at all. They are lazy. SO, they end up performing these little puzzles that amuse people for a quick 5 minutes. Would you rather be performing a puzzle that gets forgotten 5 minutes later? Or magic, that is remembered forever?

PM me when you would like to learn the latter.

If you read the essay, and some of my other ones, you will see that I am one of the biggest critisizers around of bad presentations, so please don't say I'm in love with myself, or I give the magicians all the credit. But you are right, without magic there would be no magicians... but there would be very entertaining people, as one of the keys to being a good magician, I feel, is being a person that's fun to be around... even without the magic.

What do you mean PM you? If I need help with my presentation, which I have in the past, I'm going to go to the pros, people that I know they know what they're talking about, not some guy that posted a response to my thread on an online forum. And I have consulted pros before on many times, and they were more help than I could ever imagine. And for that, I'm truly greatful.

 

[KeenanG]

If you read the essay, and some of my other ones, you will see that I am one of the biggest critisizers around of bad presentations, so please don't say I'm in love with myself, or I give the magicians all the credit. But you are right, without magic there would be no magicians... but there would be very entertaining people, as one of the keys to being a good magician, I feel, is being a person that's fun to be around... even without the magic.

What do you mean PM you? If I need help with my presentation, which I have in the past, I'm going to go to the pros, people that I know they know what they're talking about, not some guy that posted a response to my thread on an online forum. And I have consulted pros before on many times, and they were more help than I could ever imagine. And for that, I'm truly greatful.

Hm.

Well, first off, what I wrote wasn't directed exactly towards yourself, more to everyone and anyone it concerns.

What do I mean by PM me? I mean I can help in ways. Places to direct people. I would actually direct people how and who to contact for certain topics. What books to read on certain subjects. I understand when you say I am just some guy on the forums, because that is what I am to you. So I will ignore that part of what you said.

"Yes, books are great, but what's better than having a mentor there to teach you and help you out? Nothing!"

I completely agree with this, but most people don't have the resources or money to do this. SO, by directing them to some very very good and amazing books (Absolute Magic, Strong Magic, Designing Miracles, to name a few) And some very strong advice and experiences, I and you can help others, without being an exact "mentor" to them.

Keenan

 

[CDarklock]

In case you're uneducated in the Magician's Code of Ethics, it states in there that no magician will heckle another magician. Funny, because to me, it seems like that's what Criss did.

I've always interpreted heckling to mean an interruption of the magician's act. After all, if you can't say a bad magician sucks, isn't that unethical in and of itself?

What about other magicians and mentalists? We claim all the time to have magic powers, that we can read minds, and all that jazz. I'm sure you have, too.

Nope. Never. It is, in my opinion, unethical to do so. Which is largely my problem with Criss Angel.

I'm sorry, but Criss was way out of line, and the only people that agree with him are his fanboys.

I DO NOT LIKE CRISS ANGEL!

Is that big and loud enough for you? I agree with him on this matter, I respect him as a performer, and I grudgingly admit that he can ethically portray his act the way he does - barely. But I do not like him, have never liked him, and almost certainly never WILL like him.

Are we clear?

 

[adjones]

Crystal... sir. I don't think heckling is simply interupting a performance. If someone came up to you and did the same thing that Criss did to Callahan, would you consider that heckling? I'm sure you would.

But anyways, I don't want to turn this into a Criss vs. Callahan argument... well, even more of one, seeing as how it's already a pretty big one, but let's leave it here. I have my opinion, you have yours, and I highly doubt either one of them is ever going to change. Let's get back on topic, please... I don't want this to get locked or something dumb like that.

 

[The Dark Angel]

Hey guys,

Let's try and keep our discussions as civilized and calm as possible. Why don't we all get back on topic for now, and any further discussion not related to the topic can be continued in the form of a PM.

Thanks!

TDA

 

[Steerpike]

And btaylor, yes, Criss is performing magic and entertaining people, but... what about his little stunt on Phenomenon? What did that do to further our art. Unfortunately, a lot of lay people agreed with what he did. It gives them a false impression of our art. It makes them think that,if they were to get into it, they could heckle other magicians, as well. As for me... I lost what little respect I had for him the moment he did that.

I'm going to need a couple hours and a lot of beer to figure out that leap of logic.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and guess that fight was the only part of the show you watched. But I digress.

I've talked to a lot of people who saw Criss call out Callahan. I have not had one person issue me a similar challenge. What was that you were saying about spectators saying, "I saw that on YouTube!"?

Criss is hurting this art a lot more than Callahan because of his cut scenes where he has to do sleights... his camera tricks... his stooges.

Oh spare me.

Here's a short list of magicians who use stooges: David Copperfield, Rick Maue, The Amazing Jonathon, Caleb Strange, and Sean Fields.

Stooging is not a dirty word, and if that meme doesn't stop spreading I'm going to start distributing pimp slaps with wild abandon.

As for the cuts to do sleights, 50 bucks says you would complain if they weren't there because the miracle of TiVo would mean more exposure on national TV.

Ask any professional magician, and I'm sure they will agree with me.

Again, spare me. On a certain level, I respect the hard work he's put in to get where he is. But that doesn't mean I have to like him as a person.

and the only people that agree with him are his fanboys.

You did not just say that.

 

[NlightN]

I don't even understand why it's a X vs Y argument even.

if X claims he has paranormal powers and makes money from people who lost their nearest. Y has every right to expose him where ever he wants.

if X claims he has paranormal powers but only uses it for entertainment like finding out what is inside a box. Then Y has no right do mess up X's act.

It's pretty simple. Does Callahan make money out of people who lost their nearest? yes or no?

 

[CDarklock]

It's pretty simple. Does Callahan make money out of people who lost their nearest? yes or no?

My best guess is no. However - and this is where it goes back to the topic - my concern is the appearance of impropriety.

When you say "I can speak to the dead" and make a name for yourself, that opens the door for a lot of other people to say "you know that guy who speaks to the dead, well I can too".

There are things that one cannot and does not do, which it is unethical to pretend one can and does do, even as part of a stage persona. Speaking to the dead belongs on the other side of a wall, where we know it is not reality. Magicians, as part and parcel of their art, blur the lines between reality and fantasy. That is what we do. But it is simply unacceptable to blur a line that others may cross because we have blurred it.

You do not, for example, demonstrate to a child a trick where you can fall any distance without being harmed. You do not go to his birthday party and perform a sword swallowing act. You do not swallow balloons or eat glass in front of children. The children will imitate you and hurt themselves. You simply do not do this. It is irresponsible in the extreme.

But it isn't enough that you don't do it. It is also necessary that when you see others doing it, you tell them not to do it. We have a certain responsibility to our spectators, to keep them safe not only during our own shows, but during every show. And when Callahan made his big national television debut claiming to speak to the dead, he needed to be called down.

After all, magic is a brotherhood, and I am my brother's keeper. We all are.

 

[MitchellStafiej]

Ok, I WANT to reply to this, but I feel that I'd just be copying what Keenan wrote because he took the words out of my fingers that are hitting the keyboard.

I would like to say one thing.

If you read the essay

Don't call this an essay, because it's not. An essay should be discussing one topic, not many different topics. Also, don't use "You" or "I" if you want to have a decent essay.

This thread has been an interesting read to say the least.

Mitchell

 

[adjones]

No, it wasn't an essay, but big deal. If you're going to make a big deal over a tiny mistake like that, I think it's time to grow up a little.

 

[KeenanG]

No, it wasn't an essay, but big deal. If you're going to make a big deal over a tiny mistake like that, I think it's time to grow up a little.

He wasn't making a big deal about it.

But ok.

Keenan

 

[adjones]

I just don't like the fact that he didn't contribute to the thread at all... simply came on, said it wasn't an essay, and left. What does that add to the discussion? Nothing.