NLP... Help?

[PjPinsonnault]

I will copy and paste my response from the thread that was linked earlier, because A) it was never responded to so it either makes a good point or, as Steer suggested, isn't the truth people are hoping for and B) I'm too lazy to rehash my own words in a repeat topic:

I'm not saying there's nothing to glean from it, but I think magicians have the wrong idea of what NLP is and who it is designed for.

NLP was originally a tool for therapists and others in the helping professions who wanted a way to understand their clients in more sophisticated ways. Reading through the early works of Bandler and Grinder make that quite clear. Indeed, even their work on hypnosis was being looked at through the clinical lens.

Later, these ideas were developed in other directions, most notably self-help and business management.

I'm not saying you won't find some things useful, but NLP is not designed to be a magician's tool. And because magicians have read Pure Effect and/or have heard famous mentalists mention NLP in thier pseudo-explanations for how their effects work, they think it is.

Go forward knowing that you have a lot of sifting to do before you find something you'll be able to use readily. Most of what you'll find was never meant for you or I, as magicians.

Pj

 

[Steerpike]

And because magicians have read Pure Effect and/or have heard famous mentalists mention NLP in thier pseudo-explanations for how their effects work, they think it is.

Doc Shiels has pointed out that magicians are actually incredibly easy to decieve. And this case, they fall hook, line, and sinker for one of the oldest tricks used not only in our profession, but by con artists and psychics for centuries: the pseudo-scientific explanation.

 

[PjPinsonnault]

And on that same point, there was a great segment in Ortiz's Designing Miracles about why magicians fall for things that seem to fly by the laity.

Also, I should point out that I speak not from the pulpit of a Master Practitioner trying to turn you away from trade secrets, but from one of a once-curious thinker who bought too many books that said the same thing too often, and most of it seemed out of place.

It wasn't until I began grad school in mental health counseling that I had the aha! moment and realized that this isn't a magician's tool, save perhaps for learning to better sell yourself to a client or a crowd.

Still, I have the inkling that's not why you (as a magician) would ask to learn NLP.

Pj

 

[Kaos]

save perhaps for learning to better sell yourself to a client or a crowd.

Still, I have the inkling that's not why you (as a magician) would ask to learn NLP.

Pj

haha nah i aint tryin to learn it as a magician. like i said before im HUGE into psych. i can read ppl well enough as is and doubt that THIS will help. BUT its still useful to me in other ways for the career choices i have in mind. im interested in learning about it, not to use it for magical purposes. the only reason im postin in a magic forum is cuz, well, im a magician so

1. i figured some ppl might be able to point me in the right direction

and

2. where else would i go to ask this? without ppl bein all "what are you talkin about? why you wanna know about this?"

lol

 

[PjPinsonnault]

When you say that you're into psych, what do you mean by that?

What have you studied in the field of psychology? In what capacity do you hope to use what you learn, either in psychological studies or NLP? I ask only because I am sure I can help in some way.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=NLP

I just typed NLP into google and got 10 hits, one of which is www.NLP.com. The topic is not as hidden as you might expect.

Pj

 

[Kaos]

damn near all of it. how the brain works, thinks, im especially interested in HOW ppl think. whats typical................k i give up i have NO IDEA how to put it in words lmao.

i dont know...NLP i think would help me study further into subconcsious. not sayin i believe all the bs on subconscious but i know there is some fact there. i know its there. maybe not to the level that ppl try to make you think but im seein what i can find out.

 

[PjPinsonnault]

Ok, if you're interested in a general overview, try Instant Rapport by Michael Brooks.

http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Rappo...d_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213308237&sr=8-2

It's an overview of ideas and how they COULD work. Whether or not they do is another matter. Remain sceptical as you read it.

I give his book over others because it's accessible and cheap, but hunt for titles by Bandler and Grinder for more thorough exploration of NLP.

Here's a jump-off point for you: http://www.amazon.com/Structure-Mag...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213308526&sr=8-1

Good luck!

Pj

 

[Kaos]

haha aite thanks bro! much appreciated! cant wait to go thru this!

 

[OwnerM]

Thanks for me too, PjPinsonnault.

I know of the first one, and it was a little too ...uhm..over enthusiastic..for me.

The second one looks really good. I'm going to check that out.

By the way, I'm with you on this one, Kaos. The thing that got me into hypnosis is finding out why people make the choices they make, and how or what affects those choices.

I suggest you get some regular old text books on Sociology and Psychology as well. Don't get too techincal, just some basic information. It's amazing how all these thing tie together to affect how and what choose to do.

 

[ThrallMind]

Thanks for me too, PjPinsonnault.

I know of the first one, and it was a little too ...uhm..over enthusiastic..for me.

The second one looks really good. I'm going to check that out.

By the way, I'm with you on this one, Kaos. The thing that got me into hypnosis is finding out why people make the choices they make, and how or what affects those choices.

I suggest you get some regular old text books on Sociology and Psychology as well. Don't get too techincal, just some basic information. It's amazing how all these thing tie together to affect how and what choose to do.

The structure of magic is amazing. It'll help make you a better communicator, hypnotist, and magician, in my opinion. It's a study of language and it's use in therapy. They do this by explaining about the way to structure your sentences, word choice, and so on and so fourth so that you have them fill in the blanks, and get the responses you want from them. That's basically this book in a nutshell. Any book can teach you how to speak, this one teaches you to be understood.

I do have to say, though, it may not be easy reading for some. It's something you'll want to read over a few times to let the info really sink in. Bandler and Grinder are geniuses at what they do, and that comes across in their writing

If you are looking more for NLP, though, I'd recommend Frogs into Princes, by the same author.

-ThrallMind