Rant: New Magic - Good or Bad?

[AllanLuu]

I have been on many forums and I have noticed that many magicians say don't buy all ellusionist products or don't buy all theory11 products. There are many different points of view on this certain topic and this is not referring to everyone.

So here is the final question:

Why do people think it is so wrong to buy all the newest magic?

Now before I start my rant I would like to point out, I will be using this into perspective of ellusionist because they have more products at the moment and I can easily refer to it. Also when I mention ellusionist you can keep in mind that I also mean theory11 in the future when they have more products.

Now, lets say that a person just starting magic, what do you think he would go for, Crash Course 1 or Royal Road? The answer, Crash Course one, because they have a flashy name, appealing teaser and royal road, is just a book. This person hasn't realized all the other stuff out there right now, plane and simple.

Now after they receive crash course one and watches it a couple of times, learn some stuff, they are going to go and buy every single item on ellusionist.... ok, maybe that is a bit exaggerated but you get the point. Is this wrong or bad for his magic? Well, it depends, if he watches all the dvd's and say they all suck because it is too hard, then that is bad, but if the person watches all the dvd's and gives each trick a shot, then that is fine. He may not be good at what he got but he is getting a sense of what he likes and what he doesn't like, it is the process of picking and choosing of what kind of magic he likes.

I feel that this phase of buying everything from ellusionist is just a simple stage that most newer magicians go through but in the future, if he sticks with magic and starts performing, he will start finding other sources for learning magic like Art of astonishment series or card fictions, four out of the hundreds or maybe even thousands of books out there.

I know, I may sound like I am a rebel against learning magic from dvd's, which is not true, I certainly don't hate dvd's, I just think that alot of information that is on dvd's which cost 40 bucks, can be found on books for maybe 20 bucks. I just think that they will have to break away from dvd's and pick up a BOOK, it has PAGES and you don't have to worry about scratching it.

Now you are probably wondering, what does this have to do with getting caught up in hype? Well,a person just starting magic is easily affected by the hype of a product and that is one reason why this person starts by buying every single thing from ellusionist, because everything is hyped.

--------------------------

Is it ok to get caught up in hype?

In my opinion, it is. I will use a recent example for evidence, When control was being hyped, we heard this one question mnay times, "Is it dangerous?". Answer, no it isn't, many of us were quite shocked that an effect like this, is completely safe, this exposed us to a new genre of magic. Other tricks like, Bullet, is a similar method to Abyss coin in bottle, is something you may want to stay away from.



So to sum everything up, Thanks to companies like t11 and ellusionist, magic has become a little bit more popular among people so now, people really have to look to get the good information. So if there are any new magicians reading this,Just because an effect has a fancy name or a cool trailer, doesn't mean it is a good effect, expand your sources and don't limit yourself to just ellusionist or theory11, goto penguin and look at all there books and what not.

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I am sorry, I am ranting on and on and if you don't understand something, shoot me a PM or leave a reply and I will try and clear things up.

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

I agree with everything you said there.

Magic was sort of dying, And then the David blaine came to town.

EVERYONE is talking about him, EVERYONE is caught up in the hype. And it took us one step closer to making magic popular again.

 

[Justin]

To expand your sources even more, Books...that would have to be one resource that is greatly overlooked. But then again for Generation Y its too much effort to read books, Just pop in a DVD.

-Justin

 

[adjones]

I don't really agree. It's fine to start with E DVDs and stuff, but I don't recommend it. I started with books, and I don't regret it at all. If anything I think it made me more "disciplined" in our art. If someone would have told me there were places like E and Penguin out there, and DVDs, and one trick gimmicks and stuff back then, I wouldn't have believed them. I only thought there were books and cute little magic sets.

If I had known that, I don't know if I would have bought anything from there or not. I would have been tempted, but I've always loved to learn from books, and I always will. This was only five years ago, too, so don't think I'm some old guy that learned from books 50 years ago.

I don't know, I guess they're bringing in new magicians, but I think they're doing it wrong. It's not bad to buy the newest thing, but I think new magicians should start out with books... they're the best place to start. Look at me... I didn't turn out too bad, and I performed out of one book for two whole years. It was Nicholas Einhorn's Practical Encyclopedia of Magic; a condenced version of Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic.

I performed mostly card magic out of that book, so I have a very strong foundation in card magic, and a little bit in coin magic. I had great fun learning new stuff and performing the old things. And then my eyes were opened when I went to my first real magic shop.

I'll stop blabbering now because I know I got off topic, but oh well.

 

[AllanLuu]

I don't really agree. It's fine to start with E DVDs and stuff, but I don't recommend it. I started with books, and I don't regret it at all. If anything I think it made me more "disciplined" in our art. If someone would have told me there were places like E and Penguin out there, and DVDs, and one trick gimmicks and stuff back then, I wouldn't have believed them. I only thought there were books and cute little magic sets.

If I had known that, I don't know if I would have bought anything from there or not. I would have been tempted, but I've always loved to learn from books, and I always will. This was only five years ago, too, so don't think I'm some old guy that learned from books 50 years ago.

I don't know, I guess they're bringing in new magicians, but I think they're doing it wrong. It's not bad to buy the newest thing, but I think new magicians should start out with books... they're the best place to start. Look at me... I didn't turn out too bad, and I performed out of one book for two whole years. It was Nicholas Einhorn's Practical Encyclopedia of Magic; a condenced version of Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic.

I performed mostly card magic out of that book, so I have a very strong foundation in card magic, and a little bit in coin magic. I had great fun learning new stuff and performing the old things. And then my eyes were opened when I went to my first real magic shop.

I'll stop blabbering now because I know I got off topic, but oh well.

Sorry if I sound rude, but that was what I was trying to refer to.

But just so I make it short and simple for everyone:

I think it is alright to start with ellusionist dvd's but it is not the best way to go!

 

[btaylor]

I have to agree, and disagree with that.

YES, E has puled kids into the magic community and sparked an interest. That's good.

My issue is that these kids are being taught wrong, that's bad. If they learn these habits, they are done. Breaking old habits is so hard to do. That's why
T11 has said they will teach magic properly to help kids avoid the wrong tendencies fiasco.

At T11, the intentions are good, and so far I think they are upholding them as best tey can. It's much easier said than done.

peace

 

[AllanLuu]

I have to agree, and disagree with that.

YES, E has puled kids into the magic community and sparked an interest. That's good.

My issue is that these kids are being taught wrong, that's bad. If they learn these habits, they are done. Breaking old habits is so hard to do. That's why
T11 has said they will teach magic properly to help kids avoid the wrong tendencies fiasco.

At T11, the intentions are good, and so far I think they are upholding them as best tey can. It's much easier said than done.

peace

I would like to ask this question:

How are kids getting taught wrong?

 

[kevin]

I agree AllanLuu, My first learning material on magic, that i actually learned from, was learn to do street magic from ellusionist. I loved that VHS and still do! It brought me into magic, the teaching was great, and it was enjoyable to experience. The crash course series isnt bad. I know that people bash Ellusionist because they will market to sell anything that can be sold, but many of their dvd's are legit. especially the older dvds. Learning from video is just way easier. watching a move is better then reading the move.

Ellusionist videos got me interested in books, which brought me to card college and other books. In my opinion, E got me started and i am thankful. I have no regrets.

kevin

 

[copperfield 14]

In my opinion old and new magic tricks havn't really changed. I mean ambitious card has been around since the 1920's. Peopel have been doing remakes of old tricks. Over time people have found newer and better methods for tricks, and nothing is wrong from learning from those sources. I personal hate learning from books and think that dvds are a better source of learning. Even Jeff Mcbridge said so. The only things that have changed is new websites( internet in general), FLouishing has advanced higher than it has ever been, and more skilled magicians. In my opinion cardists are better card handlers than most magicians and they have helped push magic to newer possibilities This pretty much proves that new magic is better.

 

[cbols23]

If you want to keep a secret in magic, write it in a book.

 

[kevin]

Good call cbols23, almost ALL of the dvd's out there are pirated and learned crappily and put onto youtube.

After re-reading the actually title to this thread, i decided i would give my opinion on that.
I think new magic is great. look at all the amazing stuff Sankey has put out. even though he is one goofy son of a gun he has some amazing magic. I am not happy with, though, the hundreds of one-trick ponies (by ponies i mean DVD's) yeah, I know control and distortion and TnR and Panic are awesome tricks, but imagine if they were all just taught in like 15-25 minute sections on one dvd! without all the entertaining yet unnessesary fluff that expands these experiences into two hour dvd's.

just my $0.02

kevin

 

[adjones]

I heard a very, very, very similar quote that goes:

"If you want to hide an effect from new magicians, put it in a book."

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Steerpike]

My issue is that these kids are being taught wrong, that's bad. If they learn these habits, they are done. Breaking old habits is so hard to do. That's why
T11 has said they will teach magic properly to help kids avoid the wrong tendencies fiasco.

I'm going to echo Allan on this one. Care to define teaching someone the wrong way?

I started out on E DVDs. I may not be a knuckle-busting card manipulation wizard, but I like to think I know what I'm doing as a showman.

If you want to keep a secret in magic, write it in a book.

If you want to contribute absolutely nothing to a discussion, parrot somebody else's cliche.

I know control and distortion and TnR and Panic are awesome tricks, but imagine if they were all just taught in like 15-25 minute sections on one dvd! without all the entertaining yet unnessesary fluff that expands these experiences into two hour dvd's.

So you think that you can learn everything there is to know about an effect in 15 minutes?

Frankly, I'm glad Control is a stand-alone DVD. The concentration on teaching and more performances to analyze are nothing but beneficial.

Everyone always whines about the price. I say, you get the quality you pay for. If you can't afford a single-trick DVD, don't buy it. Work on what you have. If you can afford it, you're getting intimate, thorough one-on-one training, usually from the creator of the effect. Good deal.

 

[kevin]

First of all,

If you want to contribute absolutely nothing to a discussion, parrot somebody else's cliche.

hahahahaha

second of all, if you look at books such as "new magic of japan," many of the tricks in the books could be marketed as stand alone dvd's such as panic! or witness. Maybe i just learn really fast. I have won awards for acting at my school and i guess i dont need the extra training. Don't get me wrong- i loved Control, all the two+ hours of it, i just think i could have learned all of it in about 20 minutes and be prepared to perform.

dont hate,
kevin

 

[AllanLuu]

First of all,



hahahahaha

second of all, if you look at books such as "new magic of japan," many of the tricks in the books could be marketed as stand alone dvd's such as panic! or witness. Maybe i just learn really fast. I have won awards for acting at my school and i guess i dont need the extra training. Don't get me wrong- i loved Control, all the two+ hours of it, i just think i could have learned all of it in about 20 minutes and be prepared to perform.

dont hate,
kevin

20 minutes... and your already ready to perform the effect?!?!?!

Call me crazy, but I ams till working on the effect, even though it is so simple and probably a monkey could do it if the monkey can understand the english language.

 

[tashfiq1993]

i agree, even I went through this faze!

 

[AllanLuu]

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[AllanLuu]

i agree, even I went through this faze!

I think a majority of people who started around the ellusionist birth until now have gone through this phase, unless they have guidance of a more expereinced magician.

 

[sean]

This is a very interesting topic.

For the record, i picked up magic very late (i'm 30) and started with E's crash course one. For what it's worth, i felt Brad's teaching was pretty good and it gave me some basic foundations like:
- always practice slow. speed will pick up
- presentation/ patter creates the magic else it's just a 'trick'

After about 6 months (that's right for 6 months i practiced hard and performed what was in CC1)i joined a local club of sorts and hooked up with fellow magicians, i discovered who doug henning, dai vernon, dan harlan, lance burton, daryl etc and all these other 'old pros' whose names did not have david, blaine, criss and angel in it. When i first heard these names i felt like i was an alien from another planet!

THEN i hit the treasured books. Picked up RRTCM and soon, strong magic by darwin ortiz. Anyway my point is, if you truly desire to improve your magic, you will know where to look irregardless of whether it's a new cool magic effect or just a simple biddle trick. The idea is, keep an open mind!

My 2 cents

 

[sourboarder]

Yo, don't give a away my secret yo, I mainly buy books and rare dvds now. I want to make sure that these people I perform for haven't seen the same effect done the same way on the youtube! I hate that crap! already happened to me once. they guy told them what happened.. very disappointing.