REVIEW: Diagonal Palm Shift (1-on-1)

[JamesAV305]

Agreed 100%, and as a result....the youth is able to get involved - along with many other newcomers - which helps forward the art in the long run. It goes both ways. You may be right in saying nowadays anyone with a credit card has access to magic...however...the key to any art-form is not knowing it's secrets, it's having the consistency, dedication, and drive forward to remain.

-Andrei Jikh

yes but by spoon feeding every bit of magic to people arent we bringing in people that wont stay because they are not really committed? And then after they learn a double lift a pass and 2 card monte wont they just go out and cheapen the art. I know that when i perform i already have the problem with people saying before i even start "oh ive already seen all these, my uncle showed me". In the long run as you say, i think that people will just consider magic largely to be something you can learn over the course of a summer because they saw their friend do some amazing tricks and then quit. It will trivialize the art.

My comment about the credit card wasnt about "you can learn all the secrets and then you are the best". It was that anyone that is slightly interested (or sleightly interested if i were a fan of puns...(lol, fan)) in learning magic can learn it the secrets in 10 minutes and then go out and perform terribly. Once they do this and then post their videos all over they make it seem like this is what all magicians are like. By making it a little more difficult to get the information and the secrets, you are already weeding out those that would only quit a few weeks or months in. Yes you have less people in the art, but i wouldnt say that weakens it. How much does your average youtube magic video poster contribute to the art? The people that really contribute to the art are the people who are in it for the love from the beginning and generally speaking would be willing to put a little extra effort into learning new moves.

I dont think that getting as many young people as possible in hopes that some of them will stay and eventually some of those will give back is necessarily a good thing. I think it is watering down the art if anything.

I have nothing against anyone that is interested in learning the art, i would encourage it. But if they are just going to get in because it seems like an easy hobby they can do one summer, perform terribly out on the street, and then quit and tell their friends how its done, i dont see how that helps. I just think you should have to work a little. thats all. I respect your point of view on the matter, but i have to respectfully disagree. I hope to hear a reply from you so that we might continue this.

Take care,
Victor Cruz

 

[MagicSanj]

Is this thread a record for 'MOST THEORY11 ARTISTS EVER TO RESPOND TO A THREAD?'

If so, take a moment of silence (Victor especially!) and just chill. No need to get worked up and arguing.

Victor: I don't think many people on here will agree with your opinion versus three+ theory11 artists. No need to keep arguing. You can keep your opinion to yourself, because just arguing is useless as you may have noticed. I respect your opinion, but advise you to stop this now.

Peace,

-Sanj

 

[JamesAV305]

Is this thread a record for 'MOST THEORY11 ARTISTS EVER TO RESPOND TO A THREAD?'

If so, take a moment of silence (Victor especially!) and just chill. No need to get worked up and arguing.

Victor: I don't think many people on here will agree with your opinion versus three+ theory11 artists. No need to keep arguing. You can keep your opinion to yourself, because just arguing is useless as you may have noticed. I respect your opinion, but advise you to stop this now.

Peace,

-Sanj

No one is getting angry, we are discussing a topic, which is the point of a forum. It is intelegent conversation, not yelling "im right and your wrong just becuase i said so", "no im right your wrong because I said so".

And just because they work for theory11 that doesn't make their opinion any more correct than mine or anyone elses for that matter. That is a foolish statement.

aside from that i must have made some sort of impression for all 3 of them to feel the need to reply.

 

[Retype.SW]

I think the most important thing on this whole thread was this sentence from Kenner..
"If you're a serious student of the art, use all available resources. Seek all of the experienced advice and expertise you can. The more you know, the better you can become."

I have heard similar advice from other professional magicians. If you want to learn a sleight, and mean seriously learn it, get as much information on that sleight as you can possibly get and become a fanatic about it. Ask your mentors about it and decide what you want out of it.

I would say that I'm not too bad at the DPS, echoing the similar statement earlier that I could do it with less finger flutter than the first few demo's of England's video (absolutely no offense here!)

I learnt it originally from Erdnase, then picked up other points from Card College, experimented a little to reduce the all important finger flutter, and plan on getting the 1on1 in the near future. I havn't got it yet, but thats a different issue

And DJDonkeyPuncher, I can see where you are coming from. I agree on some of your opinions, and disagree on others. After all, this website is a business, as you stated, and of course is in it to make money. It would just be pure naiveity if people were to think otherwise. And that's not having a go at you, or T11, but I'm pretty sure not everyone believes everything that is written on the internet...

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Agreed 100%, and as a result....the youth is able to get involved - along with many other newcomers - which helps forward the art in the long run. It goes both ways. You may be right in saying nowadays anyone with a credit card has access to magic...however...the key to any art-form is not knowing it's secrets, it's having the consistency, dedication, and drive forward to remain.

-Andrei Jikh

Um.... hehe... did.. did you just say... IT GOES BOTH WAYS??????


BAHAHA

 

[Doug McKenzie]

Being an artist does not mean you work for T11. My opinions are of my own bias

 

[Randy]

Some things are easier to learn from actually seeing them performed and taught VIA DVD. A book can help you get a mental picture of the sleight, but you'll have to re-read it a dozen times. Specially Erdnase due to it being like the Oldest book in card magic history. This was the book that Vernon learned from when he started. Tho it is up to you. If you like to learn to from DVD's then that's cool. Not everybody is good at learning from books.

 

[aJohnson]

yes but by spoon feeding every bit of magic to people arent we bringing in people that wont stay because they are not really committed? And then after they learn a double lift a pass and 2 card monte wont they just go out and cheapen the art. I know that when i perform i already have the problem with people saying before i even start "oh ive already seen all these, my uncle showed me". In the long run as you say, i think that people will just consider magic largely to be something you can learn over the course of a summer because they saw their friend do some amazing tricks and then quit. It will trivialize the art.

It's not spoon feeding, if you think that then you are a complete neanderthal. Some people prefer to learn visually, and cant just read a book and grasp the move. If people prefer to watch DVD's and learn by DVD's then that's their decision, and if they're willing to fork out another couple of dollars then, once again, that's their decision.

 

[JamesAV305]

It's not spoon feeding, if you think that then you are a complete neanderthal. Some people prefer to learn visually, and cant just read a book and grasp the move. If people prefer to watch DVD's and learn by DVD's then that's their decision, and if they're willing to fork out another couple of dollars then, once again, that's their decision.

Well that was out of context. I in no way think that DVDs are useless. I like them very much. Go back and read the entire thread and you will hopefully understand what i was trying to say. If not, oh well this thread was dead a long time ago, and not really worth arguing about.

 

[etmi5]

to be perfectly fair

ok, so obviously T11 people are trying to defend their product from critics of the T11 community. We can ALL agree about that. I would like to, however, give my honest non-bias opinion (sorry Doug, Andre, Chris, etc) but I think your opinions are obviously influenced by your employment to T11, which by the way is a good thing.

The one on one was decent in contrast to other one on ones. I would give it a 2.5 or 3 out of 5. The reason being that about 60-75 percent of the video is directly out of the book. Mr. England does give some tips of his own, but only a handful of his points were helpful for me, since I have learned most of what he said from trial and error. Perhaps I am suffering from some degree of buyer's remorse, but it is still a worth while production. As for people considering whether or not they should buy it, I would only recommend it if you are desperate for video instruction. If you are wavering in between, and you have the move relatively smooth, I would say practice would be better worth your time.
Mr. England is one of the best at what he does and we can only strive to be half or nearly as good as he is. If you NEED guidance on this move, by all means get it now. On the other hand, if you have a good sense of the move from the book alone, 10 bucks is just too much for a video companion to Expert at the Card Table, most of which is directly from the book.

Take care guys

 

[OneCardWonder]

This thread is ridiculous imo.

I don't care what you're sense of the move is, or what you think you know about it, if someone offers to give you the benefit of 20 years of experience of doing the move live to real audiences, unless you can say you already have that experience, its worth the money. If you never do the move then don't get it. If you use the move and don't have that kind of experience, then get the video and learn. I wouldn't mind, but most of the people commenting haven't even seen the fricking video and have -no idea- what sort of gems are in there for people that are actually serious about learning an effect and making a move as invisible as possible. It comes down to whether or not you feel you need that help. If you want to go out and do it on your own and spend 20 years mastering the move on your own, then go and do that, but that -still- doesn't make the video a rip off.

Sure I could go to Expert at the Card Table and learn the move. I in fact did that originally and have been polishing it ever since, but if someone offers me the benefit of their knowledge and experience on a move that is more often performed badly than well (including by me) that may get me to my end point faster then that's worth the money. I'm not paying for the move, I'm paying to hear an expert at the move's perspectives on it. It's like saying, "I'm a poker player, but I don't listen to professional poker players discussing hand analysis in on-line lectures because I've read a book on poker written 50 years ago." It's ridiculous. If that's how you feel don't buy it, but it -doesn't- make the one on one a rip off.

I'm no theory11 fan boy, but the levels of talent and experience of some of the guys that come here and share their skills is awesome.

If you don't want to take advantage of that, fine, good luck to you. If you think that learning from people like that for 10 bucks is a rip off, then really good luck to you, because you're DEFINATELY going to need it.

The only thing a theory 11 artist said during this whole discussion accross 2 threads that bugged me was something to do with a double lift and him doubting that the poster could fool him with one. I'd just like to point out that the magicians here aren't looking to fool a well respected pro, they are looking to fool an audience, so that's not the argument imo. The argument here is that I've never seen anyone perform a diagonal palm shift correctly, or in such a way that its not painfully obvious to the audience. Its arrogance to assume that because you can watch yourself in the mirror and assume there's nothing you can be taught about the move, that paying 10 bucks for someone to help you is a rip off.

Don't get me wrong.....I smell rip off on some of the stuff that flies out of Theory11, but the quality of the instruction on the site's one on ones mean they aren't one of them.

 

[Taylor]

I have seen his push through tutorial, but for things like the bottom deal i can understand or the second deal i can understand, but the Diagonal palm shift is just not worth 10 dollars to learn from video. But im sure it will sell well. Simply because young magicians hate reading and will avoid it at all costs. If this were posted somewhere like the magic cafe, where professial magicians post regularly, this would not likely sell at all. But T11 is the perfect market i guess. Like i said this move is not difficlut to understand at all. You really dont need video to help you with it.

If your buying this over erdnase, its a bad (and lazy) investment.

Agree 100%