Some Centurion QA issues
- Thread starter madha77er
- Start date
Exactly!
-Brad
PS: I have a half a brick of Centurions on the way...they should be here Thursday.
I plan on making a video diary with the deck....chowing them on the first day second...fourth...and so on so people can get an idea of how they put up to my torture.
Peace.
I was a little hesitant to get these after the guardians I ordered were not all that great. (They looked nice, But clumped up and such and the handling was not the best).
After careful examination and playing around with the centurions for a while I have to say that I'm afraid that my fears were justified.
Let me just say that the cards look great. I love the design. And I appreciate the fact that theory 11 is trying to put some neat looking decks on the market and trying to keep the cost reasonable. But I've just got to be truthful here. Regular bicycle decks that I purchase from wal-mart handle better that these cards. Period.
1) As soon as I took these things out of the box, They warped. Now I've been reading peoples posts that say "Oh just work them for a couple of hours and they'll be fine" Why? I don't have to work bikes for a couple of hours before I can use them. In fact I have quite a few specialty decks and I've never had do that. I put these things in a Porper card clip overnight and they came out of that warped still. I've never met a card that that thing couldn't take the warp out of.
2) The stock feels like an off version of regular bicycle stock. It feels like something that a business card would be printed on. Not a playing card.
3) The micro bevels seem to be cut weird. They riffle shuffle fine face up but not face down. Face down, They come of my thumbs in clumps. Same with a faro. Face up Ok. Face down, Not OK
4) There are better finishes out there. And maybe thats an understatement. These things clump up right out of the box. Work them for a while and that stops. Then it comes back again. I remember I had to powder my guardians to get them to work decent and thats probably what I'll have to do to these.
I'm a card guy. Have been for quite a while. These things just do not handle well at all. Compare these cards to other specialty decks out there. Lets take the ghost deck (Just as an example!!! I don't want to start the site war thing all over again and I'm the last person in the world who would so lets just leave that out of it). Handle a ghost deck and then handle the centurions.
There is no comparison.
In my humble opinion, Theory 11 needs to go back to the drawing board when it comes to cards. I cannot fathom how difficult it must be to design a deck from the ground up. They deserve a pat on the back and a "Good try man". But these things just are not a great deck of cards.
And although these things look great, Sadly, Thats about all that can be said for them.
My rating: 3/10
Tim
After careful examination and playing around with the centurions for a while I have to say that I'm afraid that my fears were justified.
Let me just say that the cards look great. I love the design. And I appreciate the fact that theory 11 is trying to put some neat looking decks on the market and trying to keep the cost reasonable. But I've just got to be truthful here. Regular bicycle decks that I purchase from wal-mart handle better that these cards. Period.
1) As soon as I took these things out of the box, They warped. Now I've been reading peoples posts that say "Oh just work them for a couple of hours and they'll be fine" Why? I don't have to work bikes for a couple of hours before I can use them. In fact I have quite a few specialty decks and I've never had do that. I put these things in a Porper card clip overnight and they came out of that warped still. I've never met a card that that thing couldn't take the warp out of.
2) The stock feels like an off version of regular bicycle stock. It feels like something that a business card would be printed on. Not a playing card.
3) The micro bevels seem to be cut weird. They riffle shuffle fine face up but not face down. Face down, They come of my thumbs in clumps. Same with a faro. Face up Ok. Face down, Not OK
4) There are better finishes out there. And maybe thats an understatement. These things clump up right out of the box. Work them for a while and that stops. Then it comes back again. I remember I had to powder my guardians to get them to work decent and thats probably what I'll have to do to these.
I'm a card guy. Have been for quite a while. These things just do not handle well at all. Compare these cards to other specialty decks out there. Lets take the ghost deck (Just as an example!!! I don't want to start the site war thing all over again and I'm the last person in the world who would so lets just leave that out of it). Handle a ghost deck and then handle the centurions.
There is no comparison.
In my humble opinion, Theory 11 needs to go back to the drawing board when it comes to cards. I cannot fathom how difficult it must be to design a deck from the ground up. They deserve a pat on the back and a "Good try man". But these things just are not a great deck of cards.
And although these things look great, Sadly, Thats about all that can be said for them.
My rating: 3/10
Tim
Great review Tim! But... I thought these were... "perfection" ?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Looks like Theory11 is up to their old tricks again! I'll get to see for myself in a couple days if I get the cards I suppose.
But seriously why don't they start saying, "we designed some cool looking cards" instead of "never before has such a flawless deck seen the light of perfection from the gods themselves, these cards cure cancer"
Looks like Theory11 is up to their old tricks again! I'll get to see for myself in a couple days if I get the cards I suppose.
But seriously why don't they start saying, "we designed some cool looking cards" instead of "never before has such a flawless deck seen the light of perfection from the gods themselves, these cards cure cancer"
I received one deck of Guardians free, and my first impression was "Wow, these look even nicer than I thought". However, I quickly noticed that they were significantly off-printed (one white edge is about double the size of the other sides edge) enough for my mum to notice (not just me). Not only that, but I have never known cards to warp like these. It's not just warping in one direction, it's like... crazy warping in all directions, the deck has huge break all over the place in different directions, I didn't think it was possible to have multiple clicks in a deck until now. I have tried breaking them is for a good length of time, but have yet to succeed in taming the warps. It seems like there must have been a bad early batch or something?
Don't get me wrong, the design is beautiful (I really like the lighter shade), and the cards are so smooth and spread so cleanly, it just seems that the "one-off" kind of things have ruined an otherwise great deck.
I don't think it would be right for me to submit a ticket, seen as I did get these cards for free. I am just a bit disappointed, though.
Huruey
Don't get me wrong, the design is beautiful (I really like the lighter shade), and the cards are so smooth and spread so cleanly, it just seems that the "one-off" kind of things have ruined an otherwise great deck.
I don't think it would be right for me to submit a ticket, seen as I did get these cards for free. I am just a bit disappointed, though.
Huruey
Yeah I kind of thought the same thing. Please judge for yourself when you get the cards and don't take my word as gospel. That goes for everyone that buys or have been thinking about buying them. I just gave my honest opinion of these cards. But it is MY opinion.
I just really can't see anyone saying that these cards are "Perfection". The design is great. But I think that unfortunately the design was the primary consideration in the development of this deck.
I bought two decks and I've opened one of them. The other will stay sealed for my little collection and I'm sure I Will not buy anymore. I hope they can come back from this and next time design something better.
On a side note, I've never, NEVER seen a deck of cards warp like these do. I've bought cheap decks from the dollar store for $.50 cents that didn't warp as bad as these cards do.
Tim
Last edited by a moderator:
I won some of these free.
First thing, I didnt like the look of them online, but when i got them..wow, the detail in real life is incredible. These are just plain old cool.
But then... WARP! badly. worse than any deck i've ever used. I took the Ad card and the jokers out from the deck and set them aside while i handled the deck, when i went back to them, baring in mind that i only put them on to my table, it's like i'd performed mindbender by ellusionist on them, PK style, haha.
This is only a qiuck review so.
Look: wicked, much better in real life than online.
Quality: Terrible, a major disappointment.
Sorry T11, I'm so thankful for them but I have to be honest about the cards.
First thing, I didnt like the look of them online, but when i got them..wow, the detail in real life is incredible. These are just plain old cool.
But then... WARP! badly. worse than any deck i've ever used. I took the Ad card and the jokers out from the deck and set them aside while i handled the deck, when i went back to them, baring in mind that i only put them on to my table, it's like i'd performed mindbender by ellusionist on them, PK style, haha.
This is only a qiuck review so.
Look: wicked, much better in real life than online.
Quality: Terrible, a major disappointment.
Sorry T11, I'm so thankful for them but I have to be honest about the cards.
hmm still trying to work this through their ticketing system.
T11 closed my case without any indication why, nor did they send any email or plan for resolution.
So I re-opened it this morning.
Is there any company wide response to the issue's people are reporting?
Thanks
T11 closed my case without any indication why, nor did they send any email or plan for resolution.
So I re-opened it this morning.
Is there any company wide response to the issue's people are reporting?
Thanks
Another question I had around this, is why T11 is censoring reviews. I posted a low star rating and outlined my problems like in this post.
Why bother giving people a chance to review and vote on a product if they are only going to allow 5 star reviews and positive comments.
I am no pro by any means, but I would compare to my other purchases on cards for this to be a 3/10
Why bother giving people a chance to review and vote on a product if they are only going to allow 5 star reviews and positive comments.
I am no pro by any means, but I would compare to my other purchases on cards for this to be a 3/10
personally, I like them. mine were fine when they came, and have stayed fine in my porper since I opened them.
I do find it a little suspicious that you only have 5 posts though....
here's my quick notes on card warping and storage:
RE: Warping
Mine were fine out of the box. No warping or "click-bend" as I've heard it called. I have a couple of card clips (which they fit in fine minus the double backer) that I keep the opened decks that I anticipate using, so they're always flat when I take them out.
I'm going to be building a card cellar when I move, and I'll be posting up a longer dissertation on card storage. For the time being though, I'll give a couple of tips based on experience, and stuff I learned in the print industry about paper (simplified of course)
Ideally, cards should be stored in an area with low humidity BUT, since you'll be using them in places that will likely be more humid, you should let the cards balance out in an environment close to usage conditions.
The finish prevents (or severly limits the ability) to absorb moisture, so all moisture enters through the edges. This uneven moisture gain is absorbed by the grains in the paper, causing warping, However, if the paper is given time to settle (and more uniformily absorb the moisture), the cards won't appear warped.
Obviously there's a limit - where cards CAN be oversaturated with moisture in a High Humidity environment. The fibres will push up against eachother and irregularities will become more prevalent.
Keeping them in a Porper clip while letting them adjust to the moisture will give you flat cards that won't be warped. In essence, you're almost "training" them as they absorb moisture and forcing them to distribute the moisture more evenly.
Cards will also warp when you use them, because they absorb moisture from your hands. Make sure your hands are clean and dry when handling them. Things like lotion will mess them up bad, not only because of moisture, but because the cards will become oily.
In my experience, the stock most good cards are printed on (Bikes, Tally's, Customs) have a pretty decent elasticity and memory. Keeping them in a porper clip will prevent any long term damage to their form.
I've heard people to say to put them in the fridge, but that's a terrible idea in the long term because condensation will ruin your cards over time. The deck will be warm in the middle, cold on the edges and vapor will become liquid at the edges.
Keeping them in an overly dry place WILL straighten your cards, but they're going to warp again if the change is too dramatic in humidity. They need to be conditioned to the environment.
Bottom line: If your cards are warped let them sit in a porper clip in open air (as long as it's not overly humid where you live). With a bit of time they'll fix themselves. It's really convenient if you have 3 or 4 clips and can rotate decks.
I do find it a little suspicious that you only have 5 posts though....
here's my quick notes on card warping and storage:
RE: Warping
Mine were fine out of the box. No warping or "click-bend" as I've heard it called. I have a couple of card clips (which they fit in fine minus the double backer) that I keep the opened decks that I anticipate using, so they're always flat when I take them out.
I'm going to be building a card cellar when I move, and I'll be posting up a longer dissertation on card storage. For the time being though, I'll give a couple of tips based on experience, and stuff I learned in the print industry about paper (simplified of course)
Ideally, cards should be stored in an area with low humidity BUT, since you'll be using them in places that will likely be more humid, you should let the cards balance out in an environment close to usage conditions.
The finish prevents (or severly limits the ability) to absorb moisture, so all moisture enters through the edges. This uneven moisture gain is absorbed by the grains in the paper, causing warping, However, if the paper is given time to settle (and more uniformily absorb the moisture), the cards won't appear warped.
Obviously there's a limit - where cards CAN be oversaturated with moisture in a High Humidity environment. The fibres will push up against eachother and irregularities will become more prevalent.
Keeping them in a Porper clip while letting them adjust to the moisture will give you flat cards that won't be warped. In essence, you're almost "training" them as they absorb moisture and forcing them to distribute the moisture more evenly.
Cards will also warp when you use them, because they absorb moisture from your hands. Make sure your hands are clean and dry when handling them. Things like lotion will mess them up bad, not only because of moisture, but because the cards will become oily.
In my experience, the stock most good cards are printed on (Bikes, Tally's, Customs) have a pretty decent elasticity and memory. Keeping them in a porper clip will prevent any long term damage to their form.
I've heard people to say to put them in the fridge, but that's a terrible idea in the long term because condensation will ruin your cards over time. The deck will be warm in the middle, cold on the edges and vapor will become liquid at the edges.
Keeping them in an overly dry place WILL straighten your cards, but they're going to warp again if the change is too dramatic in humidity. They need to be conditioned to the environment.
Bottom line: If your cards are warped let them sit in a porper clip in open air (as long as it's not overly humid where you live). With a bit of time they'll fix themselves. It's really convenient if you have 3 or 4 clips and can rotate decks.
So I am suspicious because I have some product issues, others are having as well?
Sure. I have only ever bought 2 products from T11. Couple packs of guardians and a the recent purchase of the centurions. Never had any real complaints about the guardians, and I think the centurions art looks great. I bought some Wynn's as well but those dont count
Number of posts are few because 1) I dont hang out here. 2). I am not a die hard, card handler or magician. I am more fascinated than anything 3) Overall new to the T11 site
I watch and read more than anything.
But that does not negate the fact many others have similar complaints about this product. Understandable, its new and kinks need to be worked out. I don't get the lack of response I am getting though to my open case.
Sure. I have only ever bought 2 products from T11. Couple packs of guardians and a the recent purchase of the centurions. Never had any real complaints about the guardians, and I think the centurions art looks great. I bought some Wynn's as well but those dont count
Number of posts are few because 1) I dont hang out here. 2). I am not a die hard, card handler or magician. I am more fascinated than anything 3) Overall new to the T11 site
I watch and read more than anything.
But that does not negate the fact many others have similar complaints about this product. Understandable, its new and kinks need to be worked out. I don't get the lack of response I am getting though to my open case.
actually, i would say you're suspicious, not because you have product issues, but because most of your...now 6 posts, have been bashing t11 in some way. I know that in the past there has been some people that have come on here, and signed up for an account for the sole purpose of bashing products.
Personally, my deck was fine. no warping, no problems, and I gotta say as good if not better than the guardians.
I've also posted an informative little post about card handling and storage that will make your centurions (and all of your cards really) work great, and last longer.
I'd also like to say t11 customer service has been nothing short of awesome and extremely responsive. They get back to me pretty quickly, often shorter that the time they say it will take.
Personally, my deck was fine. no warping, no problems, and I gotta say as good if not better than the guardians.
I've also posted an informative little post about card handling and storage that will make your centurions (and all of your cards really) work great, and last longer.
I'd also like to say t11 customer service has been nothing short of awesome and extremely responsive. They get back to me pretty quickly, often shorter that the time they say it will take.
How have I bashed T11? I posted a review of 2 decks i purchased, mentioned what I liked and what I didn't. So happens other folks had similar problems. If there were some QA issues, thought it would be helpful to T11 to know about them so it could be improved for everyone.
Its a bit frustrating to have these kinds of issues which I have not had with any other deck.
Its also a bit frustrating to open a trouble ticket with T11 describing the problem, get no response, and the find the ticket is closed, with no interaction with me or any resolution. I am not even demanding anything. I reopened the ticket and still no response.
I was also curious about the way people can offer reviews. Its really biased if you accept reviews that are 5 stars, wouldn't you as a consumer want to see what people like and not like about the product? i.e. the way Amazon does it?
Lets forget the warping for a moment. I also talked about one of the 2 decks with crooked backs, and also offered my opinion about the quality of the printing. I dont see this as "bashing"
Its a bit frustrating to have these kinds of issues which I have not had with any other deck.
Its also a bit frustrating to open a trouble ticket with T11 describing the problem, get no response, and the find the ticket is closed, with no interaction with me or any resolution. I am not even demanding anything. I reopened the ticket and still no response.
I was also curious about the way people can offer reviews. Its really biased if you accept reviews that are 5 stars, wouldn't you as a consumer want to see what people like and not like about the product? i.e. the way Amazon does it?
Lets forget the warping for a moment. I also talked about one of the 2 decks with crooked backs, and also offered my opinion about the quality of the printing. I dont see this as "bashing"
When it comes to cards, T11 sucks. Sorry guys, that's the truth. All that hyping up, leaving clues, hidden pages ain't woth ****.
Design? You rule. No doubt about it.
But quality? You gotta be kidding me. You made one of the worst playing cards.
I don't even wanna remember the day I opened the Guardians. Let's just say it was a very sad day.
Peace.
Design? You rule. No doubt about it.
But quality? You gotta be kidding me. You made one of the worst playing cards.
I don't even wanna remember the day I opened the Guardians. Let's just say it was a very sad day.
Peace.