Sorry, but this must be said...

[Version X Imports]

Having youtube stop people from posting exposures is only a short fix. They will find other places to post up their videos so they can have an ego boost. It would be an endless cycle, unless it is stopped at the core.

If everyone really wants to stop all these kids from exposing things, the most effective way I believe is to have all online magic shops be shut down, but thats just the extreme and that won't be happening. An online magic shop can have stricter policies on how to buy a product which may reduce the number of people buying products, such as print out a form, with rules and regulations and have a parent signature with a valid parent photo ID. If they break the rules, ban the IP from the server. Maybe they have a way of faking the signature and such. How about a video confirmation from the parent. Reducing the amount of exposure can be done, it just has to go to extreme lengths or if there is a less extreme way, I haven't thought up of yet.

It comes down to how far everyone wants to go to stop or reduce these exposures. These people are like hecklers, but of a more serious case. We can ignore them because every time we tell them to stop, they continue and also there are people supporting them. How far is everyone willing to go to to stop having these kinds of people buy magic and expose them is somewhat of the real question.

- Charles "I just woke up so I don't know if I repeated myself or not."

 

[eagle61]

someone needs to post a thread on how these rants dont fix anything and just waste space on the forums. ok we all know exposure is bad but get over it you cant stop someone from being a jerk. So i suggest if you have these bottled up emotions go write a blog about it dont take up space on the forums. i understand how you feel man but making a thread about it and ranting is not doing anything about it. its just wasting everyones time. sorry

 

[David Rackley]

Guys for real all of you are acting so stupid. Just think instead of get upset. Grow some cohones for a sec n chill out. LIKE IVE SAID A BILLION TIMES ITS NOT ABOUT YOUTUBE ANYMORE THE ONLY WAY IS FOR SITES LIKE THEORY11 AND ELLUSIONIST TO BECOME MORE SECRET....GUYS SERIOUSLY ITS NOT AS HARD AS YOU ARE MAKING IT SEEM. AND I AM NOT ON A RAGE OR WARPATH, I HAVE RESOLVE TO TRULY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

 

[Scrubs_23]

GUYS GUYS...There's something like this. It's called: decknique.net

 

[Jack The Magician]

Guys...a tutorial made by someone is not copyrighted. Methods of something cannot be copyrighted. Only the video./text that teaches it. and if it's text, as long as it's not in the exact words of someone else, it's legal as well.

It may be legal, but it may also be immoral, as one is hindering the author of the effect from rightfully gaining revenue and being acknowledged for it.

Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution:
“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Kubcm]

I agree expose and bad performance on youtube and such are offensive to the art...but its like the Drug War its a win less battle you just need to adopt to the situation and realize that maybe 1 out of ten people you show a trick to will know or figure out how its done on the web and focus on the positive that you entertain/mystified the other nine people. The States alone have about 300 million people you should not lose sleep over the the couple of thousand of people worldwide that view expose tricks on the net, And live the statement "Its not the trick, its the performance"

 

[David Rackley]

Excellent post JackTheMagician. You understand what this is really about. Keep posting and don't let our fire go out. I think we have something going. Thank you to all of you who understand that something must be done.

 

[Dizzi]

Good point. Except that it refers to writings and discoveries. Not hand movements. I think that we should stop sites like AOM. Which, to my knowldge, is a file sharing place with copyrighted videos. THAT is illegal.

 

[jibjibman]

Thanks for brining this topic up AGAIN, not the sarcasm. Why don't we not worry about them, and just improve OUR magic, and out presentation. Who cares about them other morons, they make US look GOOD, when we do our art flawlessly. That is if you practice enough. So stop whining about this and complaining on a forum and go practice the art.

 

[David Rackley]

No I'm sorry but your wrong something must be done. Exposure gives away that art that you are trying to do. I don't perform magic cuz I want to look good or because I want my audience to try and solve a puzzle, I do it because I want them to truly believe that what I'm doing is real. And when that is exposed then it is meaningless it is not an art that way. I do understand where you are coming from, but still...something must be done.

 

[djspinndecks]

Okay.

You're probably the 5, 789th person to bring this topic up. I'm all for it. I do only have one question for you however.

What's your plan?

Shane K.

Bingo... and whats the deal with bringing E into it? They got the same problem... any plans anyone?
-Spinn

 

[lachomagician]

It's funny, when theory11 came out, I did my best to hide it. When I have gotten my orders from here, I hide the invoices and boxes, and only perform when I am ready. I do not film myself in youtube or any other free media site. Why? because I have a mirror and a trust worthy person (my fiance) who I show tricks to as a test audience. Am I boasting? possibly a bit, my point is that magic was wonderful to my eyes when it was secret, and I try to keep it wonderful by keeping it secret. I learned my first slights and tricks from a magician, bought my gaffs from a magic shop. If you look up magic tricks online, you are simply admitting that you do not want to enjoy an illusion for what it is. The moment you do that, you are not my target audience any more. As for what can be done? I think we should do what everyone should have been doing all along: keep the secret. Do not share it or tell it. My brethren, do not ever forget:

1. Never reveal the secret.
2. Never do the same trick twice to the same audience in the same setting.
3. Practice practice practice.

Sound familiar?

 

[Jack The Magician]

1. Never reveal the secret.
2. Never do the same trick twice to the same audience in the same setting.
3. Practice practice practice.

I'm going to add to "The Canons of Magic:"

4. Never reveal the name of an effect (lest the spectator shall look it up).

Cheers,
JTM

 

[thehumanbomb]

I was typing this as Jack the Magician posted.He beat me to it. Meh -.-
-----


I have an idea. It might be hard to implement, but it's a start. Stop naming tricks. Or keep the NAME of the trick a secret. If you perform a trick, people can post a video entitled "Trick A revealed". But if you don't give the trick a name, or keep the name a secret from the general public, then people won't know where to look for the secret. They can always look at T11, but people won't pay money for pure curiosity.

I realize that strategy has obvious drawbacks, so can someone help fine tune it?

--Just an afterthought: Everyone is mad at the people on the internet that give away the secret, but is there really a problem with beginner magicians posting a performance of their tricks?

 

[Avancer]

Hmm, I've had this problem once where someone wanted to check youtube to figure out a trick, but not at all twice and I never named the trick, so that solved the issue there.

About keeping these sites more secret, I don't see how other than not by word of mouth, to me at least it doesn't seem like that huge of an issue to stress over, yes certain things can be done and maybe the situation will get worse over time, but right now I don't see why we need to keep T11 and E etc...more secret as they're well hidden enough for the time being.

If there is a solution to stopping exposure, I'm in for helping, but for now, it's not really a burden for me.

On a side note, please try not to stereotype people as "E kids" we're trying to get a feeling of unity here and that doesn't help the situation at all, thanks.

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

On a side note, please try not to stereotype people as "E kids" we're trying to get a feeling of unity here and that doesn't help the situation at all, thanks.

Ah, thank you. I was feeling the same and wasn't really sure how to say it, but you hit the nail right on the head. Not all Ellusionist customers expose tricks, just as all people who expose tricks are not Ellusionist customers. They expose what's 'hot' at the moment, no matter what it is.

Now onto the matter at hand.

Yes, exposure is a problem. No, there's nothing we can do to stop it.

 

[S3al]

In the old days, it was harder to become a magician. It was a lot harder to get tricks to learn. So when you got your hands on something, you did not go around a blab about it, like the kids on youtube. The only way to stop that trash, is to return to the way things use to be. Where it was a secret, and money did not buy you magic tricks. Thats it, thats the only way. You have to to a group of magicians, where they get to decide who's in and who's out. A group where you have to show that you care about the art, or you are out. And then you learn nothing. That is the only way.

 

[David Rackley]

Ok just to clarify. When I used the term E-Kids I meant it the same as those of us who play halo!!! would refer the pesky annoying kids who really don't know what they are doing. Well yes, there are a ton of kids on Ellusionist who are annoying and don't know what they are really doing. Don't get me wrong I love Ellusionist. They were what got me started for the most part.

Look I love how all of us are really starting to come together here and see the BIG picture. I am seeing some outstanding posts and I feel honored to be posting on the same thread as you all. Thank you all very much for your positive feedback and for rallying to this great cause. As it was said earlier, the beauty of magic is the secret. Again thank you all and good luck.

 

[Avancer]

Ok just to clarify. When I used the term E-Kids I meant it the same as those of us who play halo!!! would refer the pesky annoying kids who really don't know what they are doing. Well yes, there are a ton of kids on Ellusionist who are annoying and don't know what they are really doing. Don't get me wrong I love Ellusionist. They were what got me started for the most part.

Look I love how all of us are really starting to come together here and see the BIG picture. I am seeing some outstanding posts and I feel honored to be posting on the same thread as you all. Thank you all very much for your positive feedback and for rallying to this great cause. As it was said earlier, the beauty of magic is the secret. Again thank you all and good luck.

Lol, I love halo, but anyways...yes I agree, next time I do run into an exposure vid on youtube, I'll flag it, it's the least I can do

 

[SHANE BLACK]

Ok seriously I have sat back in my chair long enough without doing anything about this. I am so sick and tired of E-Kids(and don't you all act like you don't know what I mean by that), and of people exposing and making horrible and pointless videos. This must be stopped. Everyone who says they agree with me is always like, "oh this is terrible someone should do something about that". Everyone always has something to say but never anything to do about it. Well ITS TIME TO START DOIN SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I mean.....come one seriously...do we not respect what a GREAT art this is? I don't about you, but I just can't take this anymore. Magic is something sacred, it has done so many things. Magic has even stopped rebellions from happening in foreign countries.(dont believe me?...you can read about it in David Blaine's book, Mysterious Stranger).

THIS MUST STOP. It is time that we as TRUE magicians do something to stop this. We must make a difference other wise, the audience will just think of magic as something pointless and stupid. Thats how my parents thing about it. When I told them that I wanted to do magic for the rest of my life they laughed at me and said magic is for little kids. And I think all of us on these forums know how people like our parents or anyone for that matter that says stuff like that, where they got that idea...

Theory11 does not exsist so that people can put vids up to get their 15 seconds of fame. And those idiots(yes idiots) who post lame videos on youtube should be ASHAMED of themselves for treating this art with such distain and disrespect.

I do not wish to seem harsh or rude, but I think is time that some sort of action must be taken to preserve our great art, or else everything we are trying to accomplish, everything that people from theory11 are trying to accomplish will be for nothing.

My hope is that TRUE magicians can come together and do what should be done and that is to truly create and show what an amazing art magic is to people. Thank you and I hope that this will show something to those who do not know what they are doing, and to those what are being stupid and very imature and do know what they are doing. THIS MUST BE STOPPED. Thank you and I hope that this may be an encouragement to those who are trying to learn this great art...THE RIGHT WAY.

Thank you Theory11 for what you are trying to do. I just want you all at T11 to know that there are people who truly understand what it is that all of you are trying to do. And that is to teach those who TRULY WILLING TO LEARN...THE RIGHT WAY.

PK I feel the same way you do and have the same passion about the small stuff but lets get one thing straight man its not just E kids and we should clear that up . I have nothing against E people and Their are some creative threads on their forums that T11 couldn't touch so out of all fairness let's include everyone next time. OH and by the way I am sick out of my mind of 15 seconds of fame junk as well and these kids are our future but they need to practice with discipline as if they where going to perform at the FISM. So thats my opinion without yelling at anyone cause I know I am no one's daddy here and this is not a B session. Lets keep is quite and sacred. Thanks.