Static - Joel Paschall
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Man, you guys are all having the same complaint, with the same answer- if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's really that simple. And if you think the free cuts over there are better, GO OVER THERE! Seriously, guys... this is basic Kindergarten stuff.
Wow, you might want to talk to the person who held a gun to your head to purchase the 1-on-1s. Since obviously thats what happened.
Just a thought: If I go to the store and I see something by one of my favorite designers that I personally feel isn't "their best work" or I feel they could "offer something a little better" I don't call up the store, or the designer and go all crazy on them. I simply wait it out for a few weeks, months and sometimes years.
If you don't feel that a 1on1 is worth $5, then don't buy it. I don't feel clothes and shoes should be worth $750, but that is what they cost and I don't buy them from that store. Its the same exact concept.
As far as calling out both Joel and JB, I really think that you should show a little respect. They are getting stuff out there; they are trying to appeal to all ages and skill levels. Usually in the description of the 1on1s or in the announcement before they are released they say if it is simple or difficult, beginner or advanced, in some form.
If you ever get to see Joel perform live, he will fry your brain. I have known this guy for a very long time and I don't think that he has ever called himself a flourisher. As a side note; Lee put out a beginning "flourish" 1on1 and no one gave him a hard time about it. I don't understand this whole disrespect for the new guy thing. Its basically ridiculous, and I think I have some people who will agree with me.
In the future, if you have any problems with pricing, artists, or anything else on the site, any one of us will be pleased to talk to you about it and take all your thoughts into consideration. Also, you can always PM or email an artist directly with anything you might want to talk about respectfully, of course.
No one here is out to get you, relax, have fun and if you don't like something, don't buy it.
Love,
Katie
KE
I see your point in your "don't like it, don't buy it" argument.
But still this single 1on1 gives theory11 the image as a company that would hype stuff up, then over price it, and then not allow people to tell them that they're nuts...
The reason I'm as upset as I am with this is that there are beginners out there who might wanna learn new and simple stuff. Imagine that the only thing they could find was Static, that would properly make them buy it right?.
Why is that sad? Because they can go to Decknique and learn better moves for FREE!!
But what if they didn't know about Decknique?! Well then theory11 would be making alot of money selling crappy tutorials to beginners, without telling them about all the free tutorials waiting for them at Decknique.
But still this single 1on1 gives theory11 the image as a company that would hype stuff up, then over price it, and then not allow people to tell them that they're nuts...
The reason I'm as upset as I am with this is that there are beginners out there who might wanna learn new and simple stuff. Imagine that the only thing they could find was Static, that would properly make them buy it right?.
Why is that sad? Because they can go to Decknique and learn better moves for FREE!!
But what if they didn't know about Decknique?! Well then theory11 would be making alot of money selling crappy tutorials to beginners, without telling them about all the free tutorials waiting for them at Decknique.
The 1on1s are never over-hyped, or hyped up at all, they release one every week.
If you go to the 1on1 page, there seems to be many more of these "flourish" videos, a beginner I'm sure with the energy a beginner has, will look through all of these and decide which one might work for them.
Get over it you guys. As for decknique, thats awesome. This site is based for Flourishing AND MAGIC.
Damien Matthews
PS: If you are going to complain, you might want to put your name on your complaint. It gives it a bit more credibility.
If you go to the 1on1 page, there seems to be many more of these "flourish" videos, a beginner I'm sure with the energy a beginner has, will look through all of these and decide which one might work for them.
Get over it you guys. As for decknique, thats awesome. This site is based for Flourishing AND MAGIC.
Damien Matthews
PS: If you are going to complain, you might want to put your name on your complaint. It gives it a bit more credibility.
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D
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Theory 11 does over hype things. Ellusionist does over hype things. It's called marketing. It's what they do. I don't like it either. However, I see no hype in 1 on 1 videos. It's just a video of them doing whatever it is they are teaching... What hype?
You also are allowed to show criticism. Who said you can't? However, it can at least be constructive criticism. Saying something like "Wtf is that, don't try to play it off like he's some manipulator or something, I mean he's ok at magic but I'm way better than this guy at flourishing, I'm really not that great." Tell me that's not ignorant. Sure, Joel might not be a flourisher. He's a magician. Flourishing and magic are two different things people. This person may be right about the flourishing, but how does he know? Has he ever seen Joel just do flourishes? Somehow I doubt it.
Also comments like "Can Dan or Dave honestly say this is a good, original cut in any way???" are just pathetic. I actually talked to Katie about stuff like this on AIM at one point. Most people here look at Dan and Dave like GODS! By that logic, if Dan and Dave don't like something, then it must be horrible. Please... Dan and Dave are amazing, but there are better people out there. Who cares about what Dan and Dave think about a 1 on 1 video. They are two guys who are really good at flourishing and put out some DVDs. Saying comments like that are just pathetic in my opinion.
"Jonathan, if you honestly MUST have a 1on1 section, please stick to robbing us with material that we'll get use of, like the stuff that Chris Kenner puts out, or some material from Lee Ashers pdf's, or some stuff from the Paper Engine." Talk about hypocrisy here. We all want original material, but we also want things from material already made.... I think people need to think things through a little bit more.
"If for some reason this post does get deleted, which it shouldn't at all or this will be a mirror of the e forums, just take what I said into consideration whoever deletes it, no more shi*t sold from Joel Paschall in the 1on1 section. I'm sure he's got some good magic, even though he didn't at all invent the concept used in the fan control, so let's see that instead, if he must put stuff there." WOW! If that post got deleted, it would not be mirrored from the E forums at all. It's a deleted post of ignorance. There is no need for cursing. I am actually a fan of Static as I don't flourish as much as I do magic. Joel is a working professional. Adjones saw him a while ago and said he was amazing. Katie just said he was amazing. "I'm sure he's got some good magic." I guess your better than him.
I am going to see myself posting less and less on Theory 11. I'm tired of ignorance. I'm tired of rudeness. I'm tired of the dumb threads. I'm tired of the unnecessary cursing. I'm tired of people constantly putting each other down. I am not part of the Ellusionist forum. I'm not a fan of their style. However, at least their community is kinder because ignorant bashing posts do get deleted. I'm all for freedom of speech. However, let's actually use that freedom in the way it's meant to be.
-Doug
PS: If you look back in the thread, I did not make these quotes up. People actually said this stuff.
It's not a point or an argument, it's a fact of life.
When was Static over-hyped? How is $5 over priced? How did they not let you tell them "they're nuts". You can say pretty much whatever you want here and get away with it; this thread is proof of that.
Why is that sad? I guess I don't get it. Static is a nice beginner flourish, and theory11 is a company... they have to make money somehow.
There are free tutorials beside Decknique. Theory11 is not a part of Decknique, nor vice-versa, so why should theory11 advertise for them?
Apology accepted.
Agreed.
I won't quote your whole post, Sinful, but I will say I agree with everything except for this:
And I double agree on that!
Well, I'll start off by saying,
darosa.justin:
please don't share your fetishes with us (the jb spanking thing) . What your comparing is ridiculous and your logic doesn't make any sense because the method behind a trick and the method behind a flourish are ENTIRELY different. When a method for a trick is very simple, it's still possible for you to go whoaaaaaaaa that's clever. When a flourish is simple... it's entirely different. And what you said is pretty stupid, if he came up with 'hundred's of cuts, there'd be no way that static is his 'signature' one, unless they're all terrible.
David.Blanch: Well, of all the people on this thread, the one person who's actually not only good, but FANtastic at flourishing agree's with me. What a surprise. I'll send you that pm in a minute.
Adjones: I meant I don't know how to multiquote, I bet you felt great insulting me about something as simple as that. And what is this about "that doesn't mean I'm a beginner." You just freaking told us in an earlier post that your 'barely considered a beginner.'
-I'll get to that thing that you and Katie said in a minute.
-I'd love it actually if t11 got 'rid of the 1on1 section altogether' as a matter of a fact. The few things in it that are worth buying, such as shifty and the bs control, are taught, along with a lot of other material, for a very cheap price in the artists book's.
-Where-tf did you get that I said I'm better at magic than him??? That's pretty ridiculous, I never said that, I said he's ok at magic, and I meant 'ok' compared to the other artists on here. Saying "I know for a fact he's better than you at maigic" is also the dumbest thing I've also heard, once again. The hypocritical nature in your post is ridonculous, your accusing me of saying something without proof, and at the exact same time, you have no idea how good at magic I am.
-The thing that REALLY gets me, (once again, for the severath time this post) is that 'this exact cut' doesn't need to have been published before for it to not be original, if you knew the slightest bit about anything you would just 'eat your words right now' like you said.
So what if I released Hoffszy Osborne, spelled without the 'u' in osbourne, and instead of using the asher twist move, I instead, used a gravity half pass to turn over that ace. Exactly.
-I really don't care if Joel agree's with you, because to me it means nothing. If the bucks agree'd with me on the other hand, some people who are experienced, that'd be different.
-YES, I know, this was worth 5 bucks to you, because you apparently suck at flourishing and you don't realize how many other free tutorials there are out there
Let me just say how much you contradicted yourself all over the place there---
adjones: I respect your opinion- but have you seen Joel do it in person
adjones: I honestly don't think anyone cares about your crybaby, whiny-assed opinion
Also : "It was full of immature, crybaby, rude remarks."
Trust me adj, I'm not crying over over anything, and the fact alone that you called me a 'crybaby' and at the same time tried to prove a point that I was immature was hilarious to me. It's like when trashmanf said over at the dn forums : "I get the same chuckle every time I see someone write 'your a idiot'."
As for everybody else, Ill post below this.
darosa.justin:
please don't share your fetishes with us (the jb spanking thing) . What your comparing is ridiculous and your logic doesn't make any sense because the method behind a trick and the method behind a flourish are ENTIRELY different. When a method for a trick is very simple, it's still possible for you to go whoaaaaaaaa that's clever. When a flourish is simple... it's entirely different. And what you said is pretty stupid, if he came up with 'hundred's of cuts, there'd be no way that static is his 'signature' one, unless they're all terrible.
David.Blanch: Well, of all the people on this thread, the one person who's actually not only good, but FANtastic at flourishing agree's with me. What a surprise. I'll send you that pm in a minute.
Adjones: I meant I don't know how to multiquote, I bet you felt great insulting me about something as simple as that. And what is this about "that doesn't mean I'm a beginner." You just freaking told us in an earlier post that your 'barely considered a beginner.'
-I'll get to that thing that you and Katie said in a minute.
-I'd love it actually if t11 got 'rid of the 1on1 section altogether' as a matter of a fact. The few things in it that are worth buying, such as shifty and the bs control, are taught, along with a lot of other material, for a very cheap price in the artists book's.
-Where-tf did you get that I said I'm better at magic than him??? That's pretty ridiculous, I never said that, I said he's ok at magic, and I meant 'ok' compared to the other artists on here. Saying "I know for a fact he's better than you at maigic" is also the dumbest thing I've also heard, once again. The hypocritical nature in your post is ridonculous, your accusing me of saying something without proof, and at the exact same time, you have no idea how good at magic I am.
-The thing that REALLY gets me, (once again, for the severath time this post) is that 'this exact cut' doesn't need to have been published before for it to not be original, if you knew the slightest bit about anything you would just 'eat your words right now' like you said.
So what if I released Hoffszy Osborne, spelled without the 'u' in osbourne, and instead of using the asher twist move, I instead, used a gravity half pass to turn over that ace. Exactly.
-I really don't care if Joel agree's with you, because to me it means nothing. If the bucks agree'd with me on the other hand, some people who are experienced, that'd be different.
-YES, I know, this was worth 5 bucks to you, because you apparently suck at flourishing and you don't realize how many other free tutorials there are out there
Let me just say how much you contradicted yourself all over the place there---
adjones: I respect your opinion- but have you seen Joel do it in person
adjones: I honestly don't think anyone cares about your crybaby, whiny-assed opinion
Also : "It was full of immature, crybaby, rude remarks."
Trust me adj, I'm not crying over over anything, and the fact alone that you called me a 'crybaby' and at the same time tried to prove a point that I was immature was hilarious to me. It's like when trashmanf said over at the dn forums : "I get the same chuckle every time I see someone write 'your a idiot'."
As for everybody else, Ill post below this.
Doug: No, as a matter of a fact, I really don't think there is anyone out there better than d&d, also some people like andrei and kevin come close.
Katie: I thought your post was kind of interesting, just because you used some analogy about something non- card related, for once in the history of forums.
- That's great that you have known him for a very long time and he doesn't call himself a flourisher, THAT'S WHAT I'M FREAKIN SAYING! My point here was, Joel's good at magic but NOT at flourishing, so then WHY is he putting out a crappy 1on1 video and calling it a 'signature' cut. So you basically agree'd with me there, and your point is entirely differnt that adjones', saying that Joel is some fantastic manipulator.
I do have a lot of respect for a lot of artists on here, a few of them are my favorite magicians (Chris Kenner, Lee Asher, Aaron Fisher) actually all of them, I just think they should stick to what they do best.
BTW, when Lee Asher released his 'xcm' thing, I actually felt the exact same way about it as I did Static, but I didn't bother saying anything; mainly because I thought it was 'kinda cool', and if it was a freebie, I would've learned it. If static was free, I wouldn't because I can do much better stuff myself. So nobody is picking on 'the new guy' because he's new; I'm giving my complaint because I don't think this should be sold for 5 bucks; I think you guys should have a freebie section. And if you'd lose money from that, then don't put stuff like this out at all.
And the core point of all of this, the one that Kate and Adjoia w/e the **** his name is brought up, is : "If you don't like it don't buy it" and to me, that's ridiculous; because certain people don't know that you can learn cuts like this for free anywhere else (decknique mainly, actually dn's cuts are waaaaay better than this). So your whole point about 'shoes' and w/e else, your aware of other places that sell shoes for cheap. Many people on here are not aware that much better material is taught elsewhere for free, so releasing 1on1's like this is taking advantage of that fact.
And that's all I have to say.
jsut my two cents,
- Sean Fast
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Everyone keeps saying you can learn "better" cuts at decknique, but isn't that a bit subjective? Someone could like Static more than some of the cuts on DN therefore making Static "better". If a noob buys this, chances are they like the look of it so I don't see how Theory11 is misleading noobs into buying a ****y product.
D
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I didn't bother reading all of your post, but I'll reply to the part that is addressed to me.
So your saying that IN THE ENTIRE WORLD there isn't AT LEAST 1 PERSON who is better at flourishing than Dan and Dave? Sure, maybe they are the best you've seen on the computer. However, most magicians and flourishers don't even go on these forums if you haven't noticed (mainly because of pointless arguments like this which is also why I'm probably going to end up stopping unless things turn around). I find it hard to believe that just because someone markets some DVDs and are very good with cards, you think they are the ABSOLUTE BEST in the world. I'm sure they are up there. However, there is probably AT LEAST 1 person better than Dan and Dave. Unless you have met every flourisher in the world, you can't say that. You are being ignorant.
-Doug
So your saying that IN THE ENTIRE WORLD there isn't AT LEAST 1 PERSON who is better at flourishing than Dan and Dave? Sure, maybe they are the best you've seen on the computer. However, most magicians and flourishers don't even go on these forums if you haven't noticed (mainly because of pointless arguments like this which is also why I'm probably going to end up stopping unless things turn around). I find it hard to believe that just because someone markets some DVDs and are very good with cards, you think they are the ABSOLUTE BEST in the world. I'm sure they are up there. However, there is probably AT LEAST 1 person better than Dan and Dave. Unless you have met every flourisher in the world, you can't say that. You are being ignorant.
-Doug
Well, it's really hard to say it's just an opinion, it's pretty much a FACT that the best tutorials of decknique are better than anything this site will ever produce. Go back in time on the forums there, and look at cuts from the virts, (Kevin and Daren mainly), Adam, Jonas, FiddlingSteve, Fattywarbucks, Enigma, David Blanch, Artwo, Pierre Tran, Baconsizzler, De_lux, Maxim, Allan, Scott and Sean, Sebastian, and so many more people there that have kindly released AMAZING moves for free. Hats off to them, and to decknique. I know unless you go on dn, you won't know who a lot of those people are. Probably because they hate this site and never come on, and I can totally see why.
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You don't know that there's nobody better out there than Dan and Dave. Maybe there is, but they're not "known" in the magic/flourishing world.
Once again- is it really that hard for you to be respectful towards somebody?
Who are you to judge the "crappiness" of it?
Find the post where I said Joel is "some fantastic manipulator". Please, do it... I will gladly eat my words.
And they are- flourishing and magic. That's what this site is all about.
So go do your own thing- we certainly won't miss you here. I won't, anyway.
How would they lose money from having a freebie section? And wouldn't that add to the exposure problem magic is already going through?
Spell it with me... a-d-j-o-n-e-s. Or you can call me Drew. Whatever.
So take you and your crybaby, whiny self right over to Decknique, learn some of their cuts, and don't come back.
They are NOT taking advantage of that fact at all. They're releasing good material, that is for beginners in this instance. There is no problem with that. Let me guess, next you're going to complain about Hugard and Braue releasing Royal to Card Magic because it contained effects easily figured out by magicians?
Or Mark Wilson for the same reason? Or Tony Corinda? Or J.B. Bobo?
Not that you know who any of those people are...
Thank God- I hope you don't have anymore to say.
Agreed.
Double agreed.
Wait, didn't you just say Dan and Dave were THE BEST flourishers in the world? Last time I checked, they have flourishing 1on1s. I smell some irony on the air...
How much more are you going to advertise for Decknique?
Well, it's arguable that Brian Tudor and, I hate to say it, but de'vo come kind of close, but imo, the bucks are the best.
But actually, all the best manipulators in the world have been heard of. Seriously, if I break the world record for most hearbeats in one minute, and don't tell anybody about... who cares!!???
Once again- they have stuff in the 1on1 Section.
You don't know that. There is no way you could possibly know that.
TO start off, I'm just laughing this all off, knowing the person I'm argueing with has an insanely low intelligence level and can't actually deal with the true situation at hand, and instead try to avoid reality since he didn't respond to any of the important stuff I said, just a bunch of crap anybody could think of an answer to.
Anywho, 1) You just don't understand, do you??? This isn't about me, in any way, shape or form. I DON'T CARE for myself about what you guys do here, I don't give a crap because it doesn't effect me, but it DOES effect other people who are persuaded into buying this garbage overpriced, and I care for them, that's why I stated my opinion in the first place.
2) Their flourishing 1on1's are all from the trilogy. I smell someone who, once again doesn't know what's what, because it's truely not possible to be 'on the air'. Air particles are spread out so wide that there is no possible way for something to be 'on air'. I can't stand your logic and how the way you come up with your aruguments; I'm gonna make a prediction, before I even finish this post, that when you reply to the current post, your not going to talk about anything at all important that you don't have the answers for because your unintelligent, but instead your giong to talk about the air thing.
3) I'm not advertising for anything, I'm saying that it's a way better place than here. See, unlike you guys, I'm not 'hyping deckniqe up', just letting people know it's there.
You're forgetting about the Flourishman. To be honest I haven't seen any of those three do an armspread let alone most of the other stuff Jerry does. That's not even taking into consideration that Jerry created a 550 page bible on card flourishes...
I think we all know that I'm right when you have to resort to immature 7-year old remarks trying to call me stupid.
I actually responded to everything you wrote. Hence, the multiple quotes.
So leave.
You "care" for them? Highly unlikely. But anyway- if they're not satisfied with their purchase- it's only $5 that they're out. It's their own fault, anyway for not researching the product beforehand and getting all the opinions on it, or searching other websites.
I know that, I was just making the point that they do have 1on1s. Oh, their magic 1on1s are from the Trilogy, too. Just in case you didn't know.
I smell someone who, once again doesn't know what's what, because it's truely not possible to be 'on the air'. Air particles are spread out so wide that there is no possible way for something to be 'on air'. I can't stand your logic and how the way you come up with your aruguments;/QUOTE]
What in the hell are you talking about? Who said anything about being "on the air"? How I come up with my arguments? You mean the smart, intelligent, and logical way? No, I wouldn't expect you to comprehend/understand it.
Once again- what freakin air thing are you talking about? Apparently I'm not the unintelligent one...
And once again, I have responded to everything you've said thus far. Making your argument of "I don't respond to the important stuff" useless and void, because I've responded to it all. And check the end of this post for more on this "point".
And by doing so, you are advertising for them.
Anyway, about me "not responding to the important stuff"... I would love to see you respond to everything I've written- which you have failed to do. Which ultimately means you either know I'm right or aren't intelligent enough to respond. Yeah, I can play that game, too.
Here are some things you should still respond to:
Actually, you can just read my post two before this one, and go through and answer all my questions or try to come up with a response to my arguments. I won't take the time to copy and paste it all here, because I know it will just be time that I've wasted.
Edit: I finally found what you were talking about when you were talking about the "on the air" thing. Once again, though, you say I continually talk about it, when I said it once.
- Status