What About Big Stage?

[Craig Browning]

As an entertainer I've had two key areas in the magical arts pull at me; I spent the 1970s and most of the 80s learning and performing big stage magic and even ventured into the creative side of things when partnering with Ken Whitaker & Creative Illusions for a short stint. . . but then, I've brain stormed with many others over the years as well.

Mentalism and it's dark cousin, Bizarre Magick have always been there in the background but I'd be in my latter 20s/ early 30's before I'd start making serious ventures down that path even though I'd done Macabre styled stage shows for years.

My point here, is that last week I tabled the idea of creating a Sub-Forum here at T-11 that allows Mentalists & Bizarrists their own "safe space" to talk shop. This week therefore I am going to take a bigger leap and ask how many here would support a similar sub-forum that deals with big stage? Everything from the basic hand-prop type systems to the Mega Illusions that have become part and parcel of things now days?

Needless to say such a subdivision will require some added niches such as Livestock issues & effects, Construction Methods, Slight of Person Effects, etc. then too, WE, the people supporting such a section, would have to be very careful when it comes to divulging how certain things actually operate (it's very easy to do with this level of magic).

Understand, I'm asking for a show of hands as to how many here have an honest passion for big stage work not just people that are curious about how things work. If you want to learn how to build & design big props for an example, this would be the kind of forum that would help with that. If you need to find inexpensive ways of creating a big effect for an up-coming show, this forum would help you with that. Then again, if you are crazy enough to want to build a 60 minute to 120 minute revue show. . . we will be able to help with that as well.

So, What do YOU Think?

How Many of You Would Like to See Such a Niche Forum Created?


Just a side note. . . my vision on this suggestion would be to give the web something unique and unlike what's already out there. I'm not interested in offering "more of the same" but rather, to deliver something that's productive and useful. . . something not found elsewhere on line.

 

[krab]

I still like to do parlor and small stage (less than 1000 people) I would support a forum on platform and stage magic.

 

[TylerRouss]

I would love to see something like this come into existence, however I feel like niche forums always have a pretty hard time staying active enough to be particularly productive.

 

[Bizzaro]

I think enough people ask about talent shows here that could be the place for that as well.

 

[Craig Browning]

Parlor Magic to 1,000 or less?

Those are some huge parlors, dude!

Small stage would qualify in that I would like to run the gambit when it comes to "Illusionette" pieces like Head Dagger boxes and Guilotines or bits like the Shooting a Ribbon thru a Lady, etc. all the way up to things like the Flying. . . big stage has changed so much in the past 15 or so years since we introduced Shadow Vision and the Gemini Cage through Creative Illusions. Not only have effects gotten physically larger but the technology behind them has likewise evolved due to things like carbon fiber, mdf board, and a number of different plastics or polymers as well as fabrics that can help us get away with serious murder.

But to be fair, many a parlor act can work on a larger stage. In my book a true MAGICIAN has the skills of a parlor performer FIRST and the Illusionist, second. . . that's how I learned way back in the stone age (a.k.a. 1970s) . . . first came the doves & cards followed by the big props . . . my first big illusions consisted of a Triangle Illusion, Mismade Lady, Broom Suspension and Sub Trunk followed by the Victory Cartons, Arabian Tent and a Mummy Case straight out of the Mark Wilson Course. . . understand, that book wasn't out until I was about 15 and I had to add in those "convenient" effects; an effect form that I absolutely love and feel gets overlooked now days (i.e. Slight of Person techniques).

TALENT SHOWS is something I think a Stage Magic niche could help out on a lot in that the most common question is "What Kind of Big Illusion Could I Make for Cheap for an Up-Coming Talent Show?" or something similar. Of course one of the best resources for any aspiring stage worker is the Gary Darwin Book of Inexpensive Illusions. Though simple and by some standards "awkward" stuff, Gary's contributions in this area have been used on National Tv by major Vegas headliners like Lance and those two guys from Germany. . . . don't known what ever happened to them ???

Thing is, Darwin's methods can be used on a large (massive) scale just as readily as they can be used on a small stage with simple angle blocks.

There's so much that can be discussed and other than the Magic Cafe, no other forum offers a place for such discussions. . . and that includes issues like working big effects on the street, which many a busker finds appealing (thanks to the plethora of videos in which such impossibilities are being done.)

THE CHALLENGE . . . we need to talk up the idea, get more people to jump onto this thread to discuss the pros & cons of creating such a sub-forum and why it is important to "everyone".

Thanks guys!

 

[krab]

Hey there was an "and small stage" between the parlor and 1000 people. My stage show is not big box illusions but parlor effects that play large and can be seen from a distance.

 

[Colin]

I think there could be a lot of interesting discussions on the forums that you have mentioned but doesn't the Cafe have that covered? every subcatagory that is created here is another spot that Theory 11 needs to have moderated which adds cost to running the boards. If they were marketing big stage effects it would make sense but adding forum after forum would create a lot of extra work that is not necessarily related to the actual business.

I don't think it is a bad idea at all but would be a bit surprised if the powers that be thought it made sense from a business stand point.

I really hate the layout of the Cafe but it is were I head if I want to talk about niches that don't seem to fit here.

 

[krab]

I think there could be a lot of interesting discussions on the forums that you have mentioned but doesn't the Cafe have that covered? every subcatagory that is created here is another spot that Theory 11 needs to have moderated which adds cost to running the boards. If they were marketing big stage effects it would make sense but adding forum after forum would create a lot of extra work that is not necessarily related to the actual business.

I don't think it is a bad idea at all but would be a bit surprised if the powers that be thought it made sense from a business stand point.

I really hate the layout of the Cafe but it is were I head if I want to talk about niches that don't seem to fit here.

I tend to stay away from the green monster. There are other places that are layed out much better like Magic bunny or IBM Ring 2100. With Ring 2100 you have to be a member of the IBM, but that is a good move anyways.

 

[Luis Vega]

As an entertainer I've had two key areas in the magical arts pull at me; I spent the 1970s and most of the 80s learning and performing big stage magic and even ventured into the creative side of things when partnering with Ken Whitaker & Creative Illusions for a short stint. . . but then, I've brain stormed with many others over the years as well.

Mentalism and it's dark cousin, Bizarre Magick have always been there in the background but I'd be in my latter 20s/ early 30's before I'd start making serious ventures down that path even though I'd done Macabre styled stage shows for years.

My point here, is that last week I tabled the idea of creating a Sub-Forum here at T-11 that allows Mentalists & Bizarrists their own "safe space" to talk shop. This week therefore I am going to take a bigger leap and ask how many here would support a similar sub-forum that deals with big stage? Everything from the basic hand-prop type systems to the Mega Illusions that have become part and parcel of things now days?

Needless to say such a subdivision will require some added niches such as Livestock issues & effects, Construction Methods, Slight of Person Effects, etc. then too, WE, the people supporting such a section, would have to be very careful when it comes to divulging how certain things actually operate (it's very easy to do with this level of magic).

Understand, I'm asking for a show of hands as to how many here have an honest passion for big stage work not just people that are curious about how things work. If you want to learn how to build & design big props for an example, this would be the kind of forum that would help with that. If you need to find inexpensive ways of creating a big effect for an up-coming show, this forum would help you with that. Then again, if you are crazy enough to want to build a 60 minute to 120 minute revue show. . . we will be able to help with that as well.

So, What do YOU Think?

How Many of You Would Like to See Such a Niche Forum Created?


Just a side note. . . my vision on this suggestion would be to give the web something unique and unlike what's already out there. I'm not interested in offering "more of the same" but rather, to deliver something that's productive and useful. . . something not found elsewhere on line.

I have recently get into stage magic... and It has been great!!...I support this!!

 

[Craig Browning]

Hey there was an "and small stage" between the parlor and 1000 people. My stage show is not big box illusions but parlor effects that play large and can be seen from a distance.

I understand what you mean here, karb. . . just a bit of a tease. When working stage 150+ is about normal with 1,500 being the average for small theater which, btw, is about the size of house most of those yesteryear masters worked. . . think about it, the shows done by Houdin, Germain, Herrman, etc. were very similar to what you are doing and the bulk of their work was in theaters that we'd now consider to be "small" or "mid-sized" rooms. Dante, with his massive illusion show would deliberately book smaller theaters just to generate honest press about "sell out" performances and to get lines of people trying to get tickets, etc.

Your form of performance is important to this line of discussion because the guys doing the big boxes or even median sized effects ("Illusionettes" as they are known) need to use the parlor level material as "filler" so to speak. Routines like the Orange, Lemon, Egg & Canary are classics to the smaller stage & parlor but play huge on the big stage and frequently help the big box worker entertain the audience in front of the main curtain while the stage is being re-set for the next big piece. Similarly, the opening of big stage shows traditionally feature the level of effects you are speaking of so as to establish the performer as being a Master Magician . . . just look at Blackstone's popular flower act and how he started with an empty stage only to fill it with flowers and young ladies in a matter of minutes . . .

No, I've seen parlor sized effects up-stage big illusions more than a few times so I'm not counting you out on this focus.

As to the Magic Cafe Inference. . .
Firstly, the Cafe is HUGE and a royal pain to navigate. While the two big UK forums are easier to deal with they tend to extend a strange bias towards Americans and American styled magic. . . this is partly due to how we tend to have access to the better builders and more prolific developers of stage sized magic than they do and they loathe having to buy here and pay extra freight just to own the current popular pieces. But I find this a legit complaint in other regions outside of Europe, as well. . . it is a pain in the tukkiss.

The Cafe has other problems, the biggest being the political bias when it comes to certain material as well as the product's source. I am one of those that cannot forgive the Cafe's past in supporting known bootleggers and out and out thieves of concepts, etc. while it has been curbed, it is still a rather bad taste in my mouth and that of others. . . some of whom still USE the cafe as a marketing vehicle, which is what the facility has become, a major on-line site for chatting up "new" material and pandering to tons of eager newbies (in the majority of cases) that want the latest new thing on the market. . . especially when it comes from a VIP like Banachek and those of his standing (or greater). In this light you will find that advertisers and past sponsors get a bit more play than those that haven't or simply can't afford the ad cost compared to the more genuine levels of exposure vs. hit ratio the site allows (vs. what is hyped).

Yes, the Cafe can be a great place to find opinions and links to important resources but remember, it is a political monster in more ways than one, and the owner of the site has his own agenda that doesn't necessarily sustain the ideas of Free Speech or personal expression.

It should be noted that there is an unofficial club of those banned from the cafe, some of whom have been banned more than a few times (like me) that consider it an honor to have said notoriety. We get banned because we speak our mind and we give people HONEST critique. Ironically, most of those banned tend to be Mentalists & Bizarrists but then, we tend to be those that step outside the more conservative parameters of the craft, encouraging others to likewise think "outside the box". . . something the site's management frowns upon.

Why Should T-11 Create the Niche Forums I've Brought Up?

First of all, it shows that they realize that magic is much bigger than card tricks and that they support ALL FORMS of magic.

Secondly, it recognizes the fact that they have a lot of fans/members that work in these other fields that require both, support and a voice; but not set in one generic arena where it is difficult to find "like minded" fellows. . . let's face it, it's much easier to participate with a forum when you can find the things you're actually interested in and want to discuss . . . and discuss with others that are familiar with that niche.

Third (and this is the business perspective), having such niche's will allow both, the forum and the product offerings to expand and therefore generate more business (income) to the entity . . . the forum does exist because of the commercial interest so why not take that fact further forward and grow?

Finally, there is the fact that a void actually does exist; people must either deal with the Cafe or if they are lucky to find them, deal with the two big UK forums which have both grown so large that they are facing some of the same issues the Cafe plays host to. There are no other American forums taking the lead and fulfilling the general "demand" when it comes to either of the two areas I've tabled and their sub-categories.

NO I do not want to turn T-11 into another Cafe. I think the management here knows me well enough to know that my only interest is to promote positive education and resource that benefits both, the patrons of the site and their own reputation as well as their bottom line. Too, I have little to no interest in being a key part of management; my life issues make it unwise, to put it kindly, because I really can't be relied on to constantly "be here" as it were. My role is as it's always been; to play guide & guardian of the craft for novice and veteran alike.

In other words, this isn't an ego thing on my part.

I hope I've clarified a few things for ALL involved. But I must emphasize the need for stronger group support so pass the word, the more signatures the greater the likelihood this and the Mentalism forums will get created.

 

[Bizzaro]

As a stage performer I like to see more people wanting to delve into the medium personally.