Wynn Controversy/Conspiracy?

[Deryn]

Over at the E forum, people are calling this whole Wynn thing a conspiracy. I read all the posts but couldn't give my opinion as the thread was closed.

Some people are pro-Wynn, others are calling BS.

One person defended T11 and CK stating that CK had a contract of sorts with the Wynn and that's how T11 got a hold of the brown cards. Others are saying that the Wynn re-ran the cards purely for hype.

One thing that stood out in my mind is that someone said something along the lines of "it's a marketing ploy by T11, think about it, if they were REALLY RARE, would anyone be selling them for $5?"

Another said this was T11's way of competing with E's Christmas promos, also pointing out that the reason there are only 250 decks sold at a time was yet another marketing ploy.

Anyone know anything about these allegations?
JB? CK? KE? WH? LA? DB? DB(uh... 2)?

 

[Ace]

Marketing ploy? You bet.

 

[MagicSpider]

Theory11 probably knew there would be a bunch of people at E who think it's a ploy, and therefore can get away with seling 250 decks a day at $4-5 each.

 

[phrozunsun]

Well, it's definately a good marketing PR/Move even if the cards are rare.

When you got a ton of people online at midnight frantically trying to buy a supply of cards that sells out in 3 minutes, you bet it's good marketing. You couldn't buy this sort of PR any other way. Rare decks at $5/each. Gold! (trust me, I work at an ad agency and see the brilliance of this.)

Besides, if they're going to sit there and cut down good marketing ploys, maybe they should check their own site. The two CIBs, the black ghosts, lots of what E does/did relies on similar marketing tactics.

I appreciate good marketing. And I'll like the Wynns regardless (but obviously prefer that they are indeed rare and authentic). I don't think they'd lie though, because that could mean a legal trouble.

So enjoy your wynns. (or at least trying to get them while you can)

 

[Ben Morris-Rains]

I think that if they were lying, it would damage their reputation to a point that they don't want to go. It was be severly unwise for them to lie about the cards or anything else they sell, as can be seen with Digital Dissolve. A lot of people are not a fan of this site after that effect was released, but they removed it, which is a pretty stand up thing to do.

I really don't think they would be willing to lose what they've started on a pack of playing cards.

 

[sourboarder]

Fake Wynns?

step one, E lies about all sorts of effects, stigmata comes to mind. Not at all what I was looking for... Ya its awesome but the "marketing ploy" and pitch were not legit.

step two if they were fakes then it would be illegal to state that are real uncanceled wynn's and well i don't think t11 would risk that for 1250 dollars a day when one person can sew for over 10,000 for copy right infringement.. thats right i took a law class.

step three If they did pay someone to remake the wynns so what i've read the reviews they are amazing, and t11 is sharing the wynns with their online community, thank you t11 I wish i will buy them soon.

 

[Deryn]

I agree with everyone's response and I'm pro-T11 with this whole ordeal. I know there is no bad blood between E and T11 but evidently, some of the forum'ers over there hate us over here. Shame

 

[waynehouchin]

I just read the above posts - interesting... Here's the full story - it's actually pretty simple.

>> Early October we were all out in Vegas filming TNR with Chris.

>> One night after filming we went out to dinner with the Bucks - they brought along a deck of Red Wynns that they had picked up. It was awesome. In fact, it was full of awesome.

>> We looked into it & found that those particular decks were no longer being used by the Wynn Casino - they had been discontinued. We also found that there were 3 colors: red, blue, & brown.

>> We located the existing supply of all 3 colors & tested them. The red & blue are cool, but don't handle nearly as well as the browns. The browns were printed on a completely different press & are much higher quality. We also found out at that time that there were over 10 times more red & blues than there were browns.

>> We went to bat & negotiated for ALL of the browns - which were by far the best. Just recently we closed that deal. We have a very small amount & we new that if we just opened it up, we would easily sell out in less than a month... And once we're out of the Browns... we're OUT of the browns. These can not & will not be re-printed. This is why we chose to release only 250 decks a day (which have been completely gone in under 3 minutes each day!)

The bottom line is that we found some phenomenal decks that were going to be tossed aside. We managed to get the exclusive on the best of the three colors. There are a finite number of those decks which is why we are releasing them in limited quantities. I think the only thing that I haven't addressed yet is the price. People are asking why only $5.00? Did you know that Jerry's used to sell for under a dollar! The answer to this questions is simple... The Wynn Casino didn't know what they had - they don't make cards for our community - they make cards for gambling in a casino. The fact is - the Wynns didn't cost us very much... Sure we could have turned around & sold them to you for $40 bucks a deck (as they're going on ebay) but we didn't want to do that. We want all of our guys to have the opportunity to grab a deck or two before they're gone... forever. I guarantee that before you know it - the only place you'll be able to get a brown Wynn is on ebay for upwards of $50.00 a deck... if you want to wait until then to grab one... be our guest!

We're not saying that everyone should own a deck - we're just saying that if you are a collector of good quality cards... this is a great opportunity to grab a phenomenal deck that will soon be impossible to obtain. I hope that clears things up. The buy buttons & quantities will reset tonight at midnight Eastern time - good luck!

http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/wynns.php

 

[Aris.SA]

I just read the above posts - interesting... Here's the full story - it's actually pretty simple.

>> Early October we were all out in Vegas filming TNR with Chris.

>> One night after filming we went out to dinner with the Bucks - they brought along a deck of Red Wynns that they had picked up. It was awesome. In fact, it was full of awesome.

>> We looked into it & found that those particular decks were no longer being used by the Wynn Casino - they had been discontinued. We also found that there were 3 colors: red, blue, & brown.

>> We located the existing supply of all 3 colors & tested them. The red & blue are cool, but don't handle nearly as well as the browns. The browns were printed on a completely different press & are much higher quality. We also found out at that time that there were over 10 times more red & blues than there were browns.

>> We went to bat & negotiated for ALL of the browns - which were by far the best. Just recently we closed that deal. We have a very small amount & we new that if we just opened it up, we would easily sell out in less than a month... And once we're out of the Browns... we're OUT of the browns. These can not & will not be re-printed. This is why we chose to release only 250 decks a day (which have been completely gone in under 3 minutes each day!)

The bottom line is that we found some phenomenal decks that were going to be tossed aside. We managed to get the exclusive on the best of the three colors. There are a finite number of those decks which is why we are releasing them in limited quantities. I think the only thing that I haven't addressed yet is the price. People are asking why only $5.00? Did you know that Jerry's used to sell for under a dollar! The answer to this questions is simple... The Wynn Casino didn't know what they had - they don't make cards for our community - they make cards for gambling in a casino. The fact is - the Wynns didn't cost us very much... Sure we could have turned around & sold them to you for $40 bucks a deck (as they're going on ebay) but we didn't want to do that. We want all of our guys to have the opportunity to grab a deck or two before they're gone... forever. I guarantee that before you know it - the only place you'll be able to get a brown Wynn is on ebay for upwards of $50.00 a deck... if you want to wait until then to grab one... be our guest!

We're not saying that everyone should own a deck - we're just saying that if you are a collector of good quality cards... this is a great opportunity to grab a phenomenal deck that will soon be impossible to obtain. I hope that clears things up. The buy buttons & quantities will reset tonight at midnight Eastern time - good luck!

http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/wynns.php

totally agree with u wayne

 

[Deryn]

Wow I got Wayne to respond.. *happy dance*

Reading your post was awesome, Wayne. You also mentioned the red and blue ones. Any chance of the T11 community getting their hands on those as well? I know you admit they aren't as good as the browns but I think a few of us here would love to get our hands on a couple of red and blues.

 

[trashmanf]

Of course there is a chance, as in, a 100% chance.

Chris Kenner bought ALL OF THE WYNN DECKS. you can't pick them up anywhere else.

so, but they can't release all decks at once, they have to milk you naive fanbois for all you're worth.

after the RARE SUPER AMAZING AWESOME ULTRA RAD brown wynn decks are all sold, then next available will be RARE SUPER AWESOME RADICAL DUDICAL SWEET red decks, then blue ones.


the amazing thing is that you guys are getting so excited over a deck just because E and theory 11 is all you know about. for example you can get Palmettos for cheaper than $3/deck on ebay right now... and they are way awesome cards... but you all don't know about them...

 

[Bijlogg]

step one, E lies about all sorts of effects, stigmata comes to mind. Not at all what I was looking for... Ya its awesome but the "marketing ploy" and pitch were not legit.

step two if they were fakes then it would be illegal to state that are real uncanceled wynn's and well i don't think t11 would risk that for 1250 dollars a day when one person can sew for over 10,000 for copy right infringement.. thats right i took a law class.

step three If they did pay someone to remake the wynns so what i've read the reviews they are amazing, and t11 is sharing the wynns with their online community, thank you t11 I wish i will buy them soon.

Interesting choice of effect seeing as Wayne, one of the head honchos over here was one of the most involved in the production and marketing of Stigmata. I personally think Wayne did a fine job with it.

T11 will make 10000 in 8 days, a little over a week, so that argument doesn't work, though i do admit it's unlikely they would false advertise. It is however interesting that someone who 'took a law class' can't spell sue.

Here is why I find the 'conspiracy theory' soo ridiculous. Who here had honestly heard of Wynns before this site announced they would sell them? What possible advantage is there to gain by ripping of a completely unheard of brand? The reason people copy famous brands is that they know people want to buy that brand. There is absolutley nothing to gain by ripping off something noone knows about. In addition to that, who would theory 11 go to to have the cards made? The USPCC. Who made the Wynns? The USPCC! It is impossible for a company to infringe it's own copyrights!

The Wynns are Bees with a much nicer looking back design. There are a limited supply and T11 want to make them last a while, hence the limited sales. That's all there is to it.

Tom

 

[UnholyGodn]

Poeple just like conspiracy thoeries, because well, people are lame Cards are cool.

Gotta buy 'em all.

 

[APassivePoke]

While I too am 100% behind Theory11 and their honesty, I can see where the "conspiracy theory" is coming from.

The fact is, most people had never heard of Wynn decks before the Witness contest. When T11 said they "felt more like Jerrys than any other cards they've ever handled" everyone was like OMG I WANT A DECK OF WYNNS.

Most people have never felt a deck of Jerrys before, and if they were to pull a lie like that, I would say 95% of the people at this forum would never be able to call them on it.

That being said, I don't believe any of it is true. But that's where it could come from.

 

[Creeper]

I am also with T11. I mean with all the artists involved, you don't think at least one of them would be honest with us? And those E kids. They want to talk about clever marketing? UHHHH last time I checked E was known for its clever marketing. Those kids are so immature its not even funny.

 

[Bijlogg]

Those kids are so immature its not even funny.

I don't deny for a second that there are immature people on E and in fact all the forums around, but you should always be very careful in generalising a group of people. There are magicians on those forums who are incredibly experienced and a few very successful ones too. Don't be so quick to bash them based on the ways some of the more 'vocal' members handle themselves.

Tom

 

[Steerpike]

step one, E lies about all sorts of effects, stigmata comes to mind. Not at all what I was looking for... Ya its awesome but the "marketing ploy" and pitch were not legit.

Go into detail please. I'd love to hear this.

thats right i took a law class.

Uh huh. Where?

 

[James Hill]

one person can sew for over 10,000 for copy right infringement.. thats right i took a law class.

Now, I maybe it's just me, but, wouldn't someone who took a, "law class," know that it's spelled, "sue"?

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

Now, I maybe it's just me, but, wouldn't someone who took a, "law class," know that it's spelled, "sue"?

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Owned?

 

[Tenchu]

The whole E vs t11 and all those people on the forums spreading some silly bullsh*t, this just makes me sick.