Wynn Controversy/Conspiracy?

[alexcameron]

Damn, that was intense.. Wayne Houchin is a beast. I am tired of all of this downtalk between Ellusionist and T11 members. My opinion: I love them both. I may not be amazing at what I do when it comes to magic, and I'm definitely not a professional, but when you constrict yourself to just one group, then all you are doing is inhibiting the amount you could grow. And I don't care if it is a marketing ploy to make money, that's just smart thinking. And as Wayne said, it's not even a scam, they're giving us a chance to have something amazing, for $5 at that! So *the finger* to all of those in the Ellusionist forums who are complaining about this, maybe next time Ellusionist will be on their game. It's all fair And hell yeah to T11, I'm just hoping I can get a hold of a deck for myself

 

[Deryn]

Now, I maybe it's just me, but, wouldn't someone who took a, "law class," know that it's spelled, "sue"?

apparently it was only one class, james

 

[Krash]

Wayne, thank you so much for clearing this up for everyone. I know that there were a few of us here that were getting sick and tired and reading pointless posts about how Theory11 is just doing this as a marketing ploy.

Maybe now people will listen.

Shane K.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

I just read the above posts - interesting... Here's the full story - it's actually pretty simple.

>> Early October we were all out in Vegas filming TNR with Chris.

>> One night after filming we went out to dinner with the Bucks - they brought along a deck of Red Wynns that they had picked up. It was awesome. In fact, it was full of awesome.

>> We looked into it & found that those particular decks were no longer being used by the Wynn Casino - they had been discontinued. We also found that there were 3 colors: red, blue, & brown.

>> We located the existing supply of all 3 colors & tested them. The red & blue are cool, but don't handle nearly as well as the browns. The browns were printed on a completely different press & are much higher quality. We also found out at that time that there were over 10 times more red & blues than there were browns.

>> We went to bat & negotiated for ALL of the browns - which were by far the best. Just recently we closed that deal. We have a very small amount & we new that if we just opened it up, we would easily sell out in less than a month... And once we're out of the Browns... we're OUT of the browns. These can not & will not be re-printed. This is why we chose to release only 250 decks a day (which have been completely gone in under 3 minutes each day!)

The bottom line is that we found some phenomenal decks that were going to be tossed aside. We managed to get the exclusive on the best of the three colors. There are a finite number of those decks which is why we are releasing them in limited quantities. I think the only thing that I haven't addressed yet is the price. People are asking why only $5.00? Did you know that Jerry's used to sell for under a dollar! The answer to this questions is simple... The Wynn Casino didn't know what they had - they don't make cards for our community - they make cards for gambling in a casino. The fact is - the Wynns didn't cost us very much... Sure we could have turned around & sold them to you for $40 bucks a deck (as they're going on ebay) but we didn't want to do that. We want all of our guys to have the opportunity to grab a deck or two before they're gone... forever. I guarantee that before you know it - the only place you'll be able to get a brown Wynn is on ebay for upwards of $50.00 a deck... if you want to wait until then to grab one... be our guest!

We're not saying that everyone should own a deck - we're just saying that if you are a collector of good quality cards... this is a great opportunity to grab a phenomenal deck that will soon be impossible to obtain. I hope that clears things up. The buy buttons & quantities will reset tonight at midnight Eastern time - good luck!

http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/wynns.php

Good stuff...but the question I have been losing sleep over is....can you cut cheese with them?

--Jim

 

[James Hill]

apparently it was only one class, james

Haha.

::

But, I guess I should post something On-Topic. And, that'd probably be, "They're selling Brown Wynn decks. Buy them, or don't buy them." No need to create rumors.

 

[TheStreetAce]

Wayne is the best! But T11 had to have some sort of idea behind this. They are probably selling the decks for a little less than they got them if they bought them so cheap. It's called a loss leader. T11 looses money on Wynns but has anyone bought anything else on your order with Wynns? That totally makes up for the lose and brings in extra money. So Wayne and the team are doing a great thing and everyone is happy. If CK bought all the Wynns 1 of 2 things will probably happen with the red and blues. Either the artist team will hog em up and be selfish (I know they won't cause they all rock!). Or they will sell the red and blue ones at later dates as different promotions. I highly doubt they will go on sale right after browns are gone but it's possible. They got enough to keep going until christmas to probably so they could but i doubt it.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

Wayne is the best! But T11 had to have some sort of idea behind this. They are probably selling the decks for a little less than they got them if they bought them so cheap. It's called a loss leader. T11 looses money on Wynns but has anyone bought anything else on your order with Wynns? That totally makes up for the lose and brings in extra money. So Wayne and the team are doing a great thing and everyone is happy. If CK bought all the Wynns 1 of 2 things will probably happen with the red and blues. Either the artist team will hog em up and be selfish (I know they won't cause they all rock!). Or they will sell the red and blue ones at later dates as different promotions. I highly doubt they will go on sale right after browns are gone but it's possible. They got enough to keep going until christmas to probably so they could but i doubt it.

I very seriously doubt they are losing money selling these decks. They could sell them for more but I doubt they are or will lose money on this deal even if people bought nothing else other than Wynn decks for the rest of the year.

I agree it was a great thing to make these available to the public and I appreciate it wholeheartedly. If they were priced higher I would probably have just skipped on buying them to check them out in the first place. Keep in mind I am not a card collector, just someone who is interested in having cards that handle and feel good in my hands.

--Jim

 

[waynehouchin]

Good stuff...but the question I have been losing sleep over is....can you cut cheese with them?

--Jim

Yes... Yes you can!

 

[Sean.Cinco]

Good stuff...but the question I have been losing sleep over is....can you cut cheese with them?

--Jim

Yes... Yes you can!

LMAO! That totally made my day!

 

[jimbowmanjr]

Yes... Yes you can!

Excellent! I will have my block of chedder, pepperoni stick and Town House crackers standing by to test this out upon arrival.

--Jim

 

[noahfrommagiccamp]

how did t11 get ahold of all the brown wynns?!?!? where did they get them?

 

[Jack The Magician]

The remaining brown Wynn Decks were purchased from the USPCC warehouse:

We didn't buy the decks at $50 a pop and then sell them back for $5. That would make us stupid. We purchased the remaining brown Wynn decks from the USPCC warehouse in bulk. There aren't millions for sale. It is very likely that we have the last of these cards that will ever be made.

As for the timing, we had been trying to get the decks for weeks. Negotiations finished, the cards were overnighted to us, we paid for them, and Bayme designed the sales page that night (he's an excellent web designer - it doesn't take him more than a few hours).

...There is no dubious marketing going on here. That statement assumes that we're purposefully lying to this community to screw them out of their hard-earned money, which just isn't true. I don't know how else to say that.

The cards are rare because they've been discontinued. They won't ever be made again, which means that even though they're readily available on this site right now, when we run out, that's it. No more. The same thing happened with Jerry's. They used to sell for under a buck a deck.

We're trying to present people with an opportunity to get their hands on a great deck of cards that will eventually be nearly impossible to get anywhere. It amazes me that one response to this is "they're lying about how rare the cards are - it's just a marketing ploy."

I thought I would post the majority of Dana's post to shed some additional light on the Wynn's.

Cheers,
JTM

 

[Eddie]

There are some people who own Brown Wynns saying that the hype is not really worth it.

 

[MattTarrant]

Just wondering, is it possible for the same people to be buying all the decks each day?

I havnt had a chance to purchase any yet, as Midnight is when im at work, and I will probably have to buy some on the weekend/sickie, but can people keep purchasing them all to at a later date, make a profit?

 

[copperfield 14]

It's not like these decks are being sold for 50 bucks. There only 5 dolars per deck including shipping. People at E lie about there products and overprice them. For example crash course, how to do street magic, Kard Klub, etc. Most of there products are good( at least the one other artists made. If these Wynn decks handle better than guardians, master,vipers and other more expensive cards than it is a steal. I don't know why people are saying all this Bu*l S$it about conspiracy and that theory11 is lying. There cards, they are going to be hard to find when there sold out and then you Fu*ck*rs are gonna be winnig about these cards like your wining about Jerry's. The Theory11 staff is being very generous in selling these cards (thats right cards which you will use and eventually ruin) to the magic community. Please stop bragging. If you want the deck buy it, if you don't, then don't buy it and let people who want the decks have them.

P.S Sorry if I'm a little rude, just saying what I believe. Also I want to thank The theory11 staff, especially Chris and Kate for allowing to sell them when you could have sold them to collectors or ebay for much more money.

 

[b.boulton]

step one, E lies about all sorts of effects, stigmata comes to mind. Not at all what I was looking for... Ya its awesome but the "marketing ploy" and pitch were not legit.

step two if they were fakes then it would be illegal to state that are real uncanceled wynn's and well i don't think t11 would risk that for 1250 dollars a day when one person can sew for over 10,000 for copy right infringement.. thats right i took a law class.

step three If they did pay someone to remake the wynns so what i've read the reviews they are amazing, and t11 is sharing the wynns with their online community, thank you t11 I wish i will buy them soon.

Alright...where should I start?

First, what was wrong with Stigmata's marketing ploy?
I can tell you whats right. Mr. Houchin and E had a phenomenal effect on their hands. That effect was able to produce amazing reactions, so that is what the focused on in the trailer. Then on E they said the following...

"The spectator thinks of anything. A name. A number. A memory. With the thought in mind, the spectator squeezes your wrist. Tightly.

When the spectator releases, red marks appear on your arm where they were squeezing. These marks of blood under the skin then slowly, visually, clearly re-arrange themselves into the shape of the spectator's selection. Seeing is believing."


Okay, now i used to own Stigmata (yes the disc got ruined...sorry wayne!) and from what I can tell, that description is dead on...I could not have described the effect better myself.


Okay now for the second part of your post. Stating that if the Wynns are fake is totally ridiculous! We know that they came from the USPCC, and that they were supposed to be used in the Wynn hotel and Casino, but were not because Wynn switched to a different design. Also, it would not be one person filing a lawsuit, it would be the case would be labeled "Wynn Hotel/ and Casino vs. Theory 11 LLC." So if you did indeed take a law class, you would know that it would be a civil case, where two COMPANIES were going at each other. Also, if Theory 11 did indeed have their own Wynns printed up (Which they did not!) they of all people would be smart enough to get permission from the Wynn.


So in the end....you really do not want to know what I have to say, so I will stop here.....

O yeah, and thats right I took a law class........
Rawr

 

[b.boulton]

I really dont see why some people are making such a big deal about it... in the end, there is a company that is offering a product at a fraction of what it was selling at in the open market... if you think otherwise, no big deal stick with whatever makes you happy and leave us in our glory...

 

[Avancer]

Those are sweet, hopefully they won't be sold out by this weekend.

 

[Korseir]

if you dont like the cards and think its a conspiricy, dont get them, if you like em for their looks or for whatever reason wish to have the deck then buy em! its that simple!

anyone taking philosophy and know about "Pascal's Wager"? same thing applies here, if were wrong then our losses are minimal, if were right then spot on we found a good deal

i dont know about you guys but the sticker seal on the card box is so poorly placed onto the box that it leans over more to one side than the other kinda proves that its fairly old i think (could be wrong!), rather than our modern day deck of cards where the sticker seal is placed exactly in the center covering the "U" part of the box

 

[dummyisdumb]

I'm pretty sure I was one of the first people who brought up this "suspicious" thingy-ma-bober, in the other wynn thread, but now that I think about it, who cares? I mean, even if T11 is probably lying to us, and the cards aren't rare, and the cards are worth 2 bucks, they are still good cards......
There is almost no doubt that the wynns are fake, if not, I don't see why T11 isn't selling Jerry's for five bucks. CK has like way more than he does wynns (apparently), and apparently Jerry's aren't that rare.