YouTube Petition!

[StreetMage]

first of all, i have taken everything, everyone has said, read it, then made my decisions on what to say, or think. quite frankly, today i spent almost 3-1/2 hours street performing outside and inside my local shopping mall today, i earned almost $425 dollars in the time period. towards the end of my crusade, one of the people i was performing for said to me, after i had finished performing my modified version of 2cm (i hope you know what that stands for) a kid (couldnt be older than 12!) said to me and his parents, i know how you did that, i saw it on youtube! so when i came home, i laid down on my couch, and had the idea to start this petition, so i did, and while doing some graphic design for a friend i have been checking back to see whats been going on. so far there have been a 1/2 a dozen people that agree with me, quite a few that dont. so you dont like my idea. okay i understand i see exactly why you dont agree with me, and i have spent my share of time today working on my magic. so i think that its fair to say that we can have our differences, you have stated your ideas, i have stated mine, and now i think that we want to here everyone else's, so why dont we stop arguing and let the rest people of this wonderful forum state thier opinions?

Okay, let me get this straight. You went out and performed for 3.5 hours. You made over $425. You're worried about one measley little kid with an internet connection. Can't you just try to focus on the positives?

Let's say you get 6,978,334,256,165 signatures on your petition. You send it in to Youtube and say, "These are all the people who want to stop exposure. Please listen and ban magic tutorials."

They'll email you back, probably within 24 hours or so, and say, "Okay, we've reached a solution that everyone in the company seems to be comfortable with. We suggest that you print out that list of signatures. Once you've done that, roll it up very tightly, bend over, and lodge it in your rectum. Have a nice day."

Simply put, exposure will never, ever, EVER cease on Youtube, no matter what any of us tries to do about it. For every obnoxious little kid who's seen every trick you know on Youtube, there are literally thousands of people who've never even browsed Youtube, so why worry about the vast minority? Just do your magic, and if somebody has seen what you're doing on Youtube and exposes it, do what you would do with any heckler and just walk away. Find someone else to perform for. The only people who go digging around on Youtube for trick tutorials are little kids with no money to buy tricks and magicians looking for something to get pissed about. Don't be one of those magicians.

 

[Legerdemain]

Even if YouTube bans others won't

There are way too many YouTube replicas popping up all over the place. Many people are turning to those copy cat sites just because YouTube is blocking content already. Petitions will only make people more determined to share the secrets. Just look at the all the fancy ways that exist for snagging music and movies despite the effort of the RIAA. I'm sure there are more people downloading illegal content than ever before.

I believe better results could be acomplished if we write to the poster of questionable content and ask them politely to remove the material. Some of those younger kids need to be aware of the rich tradition magic has regarding secrecy. If the poster is made to feel they are part of this inner circle of secrecy they might be more willing to take down the offensive content.

 

[OwnerM]

You know, technically, this site is an exposure site..... just waaaay more expensive...

Okay, all joking aside, here's my two cents on this issue. And I'm ready for the flames to come.

I have to agree that you will not stop exposure anywhere. Period. As to petitions, a list of names may sometimes work for the government, but rarely, if ever, does works for a business. YouTube is a business. Remember that.

Also, as a much older beginner (I'm 44), and I'll admit this, I started learning tricks by searching for an exposure on youtube. There was one trick I really wanted to know how to do, and after finding it there and watching a 2 minute video of a youngin' (no offense to anyone, please), showing me how to do it, I had MANY more questions. So since I had a real name of the trick, I did a google search and found it on E. I saw the DVD for sale, and even though I knew the secret of the trick, I BOUGHT THE DVD THERE.

Now read that again. Because of exposure on YouTube, I found the name of the trick, found E, and bought how to do it anyways. The DVD explained a hell of a lot more and answered any questions I could ever come up with. I ended up buying more DVD's from there and Distortion here. I plan on getting more.

Now I know everyone is going to jump on me for even looking for an exposure, but because of that, it made me learn that there is so much more than knowing how it's done. I've been performing on stage (part time - not a living, and not as a magician) for years so, I realize that there is a quality issue that is connected with buying from sites like here. I also realize the importance of not exposing a trick. However, sometimes a little exposure causes people to really dive into it more and really learn the craft.

Just a different take on this issue no one's thought of.


*Getting my special suit on for the flames to come...*

 

[Djmckee]

I do understand what your trying to say ownerM but the problem is not everyone is like you. People will search the trick, find it out. Done.

Also This topic is very serious as magicians need tricks otherwise they cannot perform to make a living
.
Its some peoples lives we are talling about!

 

[Steerpike]

Also This topic is very serious as magicians need tricks otherwise they cannot perform to make a living

Are you actually suggesting that every single person on earth will look up exposure videos and ruin every single trick in existence?

 

[OwnerM]

I agree with you, and I understand the outrage and anger completely, but I'm trying to get people to look at it this way:

I do stand up comedy, improv comedy and stage hypnosis. If someone tapes a joke I made puts it on YouTube, a lot of people will see the joke and possibly repeat it. They may do it video of their version of it, exposing the joke. They might do it worse, or better or whatever.

Doesn't matter. I'll still use the joke and do it my way. Just because they know the punch line doesn't make them a comedian nor will it impact my performance or livelihood much.

By the same token, how many hypnosis tutorials are out there? There's a ton! However, just because you see an induction, know how it's done, doesn't make you a stage hypnotist because you know how. You have to know the neuances that come with experience, real training and presentation. My shows and livelihood has never been impacted because of exposure.

In fact, because of the exposure, my experience with card magic has pique my desire for real training, not this fast stuff. Any person who is really serious about this craft will react the same way. Sure there'll be a few who will look and go "Oh. I'm going to get that magician the next time." But honeslty, they are few and far between.

Also, even though I now know how some tricks are done, I still watch you more talented and practiced people do them, and I'm still amazed. And I will still pay to see Derren, Chris, Penn & Teller or Bob down the street to be dazzled and amazed.

The trick is only the means. The real amazement is in the persentation. No YouTube exposure will give me that.

And I think there are more people who are like me on this than not...

 

[JPK]

Impossible task on so many levels.

Good afternoon.
How would you go about defining an exposure video anyway? Would it be just the ones where the maker of the vid comes out and says" Hey ,this is how (insert your favorite magician here) does this..." or would it include all of the people doing personal performances that flash a method? If you are able to work out the method because the video can be watched over and over, is that exposure? What if you are experienced enough to know how a certain effect is done but the performer doing it just isn't as good as presenting it as others? Is that exposure?
If the Youtube thing has you so hooked that you need to hunt these people down here's my suggestion. Contact the person who put up the video. Explain your concern. Perhaps you could even offer performance tips to the beginners as to what they flashed or how they could improve the effect. Oh yeah, and advise them not to be so quick to release underpracticed effects. If the person is actively tring to expose an effect, tell them how you feel about it and why it's wrong. If someone is posting copyrighted stuff, then contact the producer of the effect and point them to the video. They can have Youtube pull it down.
Do I think this will elliminate exposure on Youtube. Nope, but it will make you feel better knowing you might be having an effect.
JPK

 

[smittymagic1]

Youtube petition

You'll never do it the internet and youtube is a too big of dragon to slay. I suggest that Wayne and the creators of Magic should put magic back underground, or back in books where people have to READ it. That will stop the little bastards from exposure.

 

[S3al]

The only way you will stop tutorials is if you buy youtube and remove them your self. Google bought it for 1 billion something. So I promise, if I make 30 billion dollar's I will buy all these online video sites and remove the magic tutorials. (and I'm dead serious)

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

What we need to do is print out a petition.
Take it to local magic shops and ibm rings.

~Jordan

 

[S3al]

What we need to do is print out a petition.
Take it to local magic shops and ibm rings.

~Jordan

If you get like 500,000 sigs, then it might do something.

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

If you get like 500,000 sigs, then it might do something.

Well Duh.
But if you took it to ibm rings. talked to your maic shops about emailing them out. HAVE E AND PENGUIN MAGIC put them in there orders so when someone recieves a letter they can Send it back or email their name.

Eventually everything adds up. So what if it takes a year. 5 years. a tleast it gets done. Instead of 5 years from now us sitting around still complaining.

There would be a hell of alot less complining because we would know something is actually being done.

~Jordan

 

[S3al]

Well Duh.
But if you took it to ibm rings. talked to your maic shops about emailing them out. HAVE E AND PENGUIN MAGIC put them in there orders so when someone recieves a letter they can Send it back or email their name.

Eventually everything adds up. So what if it takes a year. 5 years. a tleast it gets done. Instead of 5 years from now us sitting around still complaining.

There would be a hell of alot less complining because we would know something is actually being done.

~Jordan

hey man I'm with you, but I don't think E and penguin would do that.

 

[Timj32]

Hi everyone.

I don't really know what to think about all of this. I can tell you that I live in south Florida, I perform magic for A LOT of people and I can honestly say this: I have never...not even once...had anyone say to me "Oh..I saw that on YouTube"!! I do alot of magic for the people I work with (My favorite test subjects) almost daily. No one, and I mean not one person out of the hundred or so people I work with has ever said "I'm going to go look that up on YouTube" I think that we as magicians know about YouTube and therefore assume that everyone else does as well. This is simply not the case. I'll bet you that 1 out of every 1500 or so people on YouTube even knows about exposure videos if that many. And I'll go even further by saying that most of those people only see the Chris angel or Blane exposure vids.

The bottom line is this, As it stands right now the numbers are on our side, But if we keep raising a stink about it, more people are going to take notice. God forbid anything about this ever gets into the newspapers or on the 10 o'clock news. You will see the veiwing numbers for ALL exposure videos triple!!! At least.

The petitions have been done before. Nothing happened. I mean...Whats the goal here? To take youtube to court and MAKE them take the vids down? Its not going to happen. No laws are being broken (In most cases). And if it did go to court? The resulting media frenzy about a group of magicians taking YouTube to court over exposure videos would cause more damage than the people who do the exposing ever could. YouTube would be flooded with people looking for exposure videos.

Look...I don't like it because it shows a complete lack or respect for the art. But stirring up a bunch of crap over it is not the awnser. The more attention you give these morons, The bigger they are going to feel and more proud of themselves they are going to become. Then they will do it even more.

Best,
Tim

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

hey man I'm with you, but I don't think E and penguin would do that.

Well its worth a shot dont ya think? Because both companys are loosing valuable buisness.

~Jordan

 

[The Dark Angel]

As long as it isn't tricks that I perform, anything from here, or a REALLY great trick, I don't mind it too much.

 

[aznofspades]

I don't think a petition would be very effective but a complete boycott of youtube might get some results.

Magic websites could stop posting their previews on youtube, and I guess I'm willing to give up watching youtube for Comedy Central (I don't have cable) for the greater good of magic.

Let the noobs on youtube post whatever they want, the real magicians will just do their thing and look for the hidden gems. (hint hint they're usually in books, and most of the dumbasses on youtube can't read)

After all, big companies like E are kind of in a way asking for it:

Google Magic Tricks: Ellusionist and Penguin are on the first page, under the sponsored links. They pay to get more hits, and don't try as hard as other sites (like T11 and Dananddavve.com) to filter out the people just wanting to learn a secret. The people who downgrade a miracle into a puzzle.

So with that, T11 please, please stay true to what you said about being "underground" and please don't sell out.

Lastly, any opinions on my suggestion about a boycott?

 

[BlueBackedBikes]

I don't think a petition would be very effective but a complete boycott of youtube might get some results.

Magic websites could stop posting their previews of youtube, and I guess I'm willing to give up watching youtube for Comedy Central (I don't have cable) for the greater good of magic.

Opinions on my suggestion?

Sorry mate, but that would do next to nothing. Magicians make up, I don't know, .01% of the internet-using population (and that's a low estimate). If YouTube lost ALL of our business, they would hardly even feel it because YouTube is used by so many other people for so many different reasons. And it continues to grow. The only reason YouTube removes magic videos right now is because they are exposing copyrighted effects, which is copyright infringement. If they don't do anything, they could get in trouble for not stopping it.

Not trying to shoot down your idea mate, just being realistic. If you see someone exposing a copyrighted effect, mark it as inappropriate. That's all we can do.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

OH just let em do what they want to do Steerpike it's no use and Simmons you said it was your last post like 2 post ago what happened man.lol Anyways count me on your list and if it doesn't work don't be surprised I have been wanting to punch the man in the mask on the TV pilot series magic tricks revealed for most of my life so put him in front of me PLEASE!!!!!! Good Luck

 

[Brewery Rabbit]

OH just let em do what they want to do Steerpike it's no use and Simmons you said it was your last post like 2 post ago what happened man.lol Anyways count me on your list and if it doesn't work don't be surprised I have been wanting to punch the man in the mask on the TV pilot series magic tricks revealed for most of my life so put him in front of me PLEASE!!!!!! Good Luck

I agree!!!

I wonder who he is.

I bet if i pulled off his mask. THere is really no head there.

~Jordan