This may not of course be true in the age of reality television, but in the older days of movies, ballet, opera etc.. You saw more good than bad. As for I haven't seen much. I am from Alaska. Have traveled to almost every state. Canada, Mexico. Have worked in the circus as a juggler and entertainer (jugglers get heckled too.) Read extensively. Have been poor. Have been rich. Have been up. Have been down. Have seen ALOT.
#1 Reply for Hecklers
- Thread starter jbear574
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This may not of course be true in the age of reality television, but in the older days of movies, ballet, opera etc.. You saw more good than bad. As for I haven't seen much. I am from Alaska. Have traveled to almost every state. Canada, Mexico. Have worked in the circus as a juggler and entertainer (jugglers get heckled too.) Read extensively. Have been poor. Have been rich. Have been up. Have been down. Have seen ALOT.
Dang! I envy your worldly experience! Some day, haha, some day. I'm only 16 though... so I have quite a long way to go in seeing the world =)
I've seen actors get hecklers lol, that's just embarrassing.
I'm not really gonna say much about my reactions on hecklers, it's pretty much been beaten to death; I won't convince you differently, but I wanted to offer some thoughts on your opinion... I guess really the main two issues that people will have with your line is this:
a) What if they can do it
b) It makes the spectator feel bad
a) is admittedly a very small minority. I've never seen it happen to a magician but I have seen it happen to laymen though, and it's not pretty. Just be careful that if you challenge them, they really are heckling you. If I was watching someone perform, no matter how well or badly, I would never heckle a fellow magician. If they were just terrible I'd stick around to talk to them afterwards. Thing is, I could see a situation where a magician was having a bad day or just feeling brash, and if I said something like "nicely done" it could be taken the wrong way. If that magician were then to mistake my reaction as a challenge or a negative response and challenged me, I would most certainly take the deck and perform. I guess basically what I'm saying is just really be careful when you do challenge; I don't think it's wrong to challenge necessarily, but only at the right time. The right time will also depend on the rest of your audience and such factors.
b) I think that however nice you act, however neutral you act, it is inevitable that they will harbour some sort of negative emotion such as embarrassment or anger. As far as the heckler goes, I don't really care if they do feel that way (although, this isn't an issue with me since I don't handle hecklers this way). What's more important here is the attitude of your spectators. It's an option depending on many things, but most of all, your audience. Audience reading is one of the most important skills a magician can have and challenging and embarrassing should only be done in some contexts. If you're only performing for the heckler for example, or if you're performing for a group of blokes who consider each other brothers and would break your arm if you dissed one of them, well, maybe not. If you have a sympathetic audience though that themselves are telling the heckler to stop, a little laugh at their expense probably won't hurt.
I'm not really gonna say much about my reactions on hecklers, it's pretty much been beaten to death; I won't convince you differently, but I wanted to offer some thoughts on your opinion... I guess really the main two issues that people will have with your line is this:
a) What if they can do it
b) It makes the spectator feel bad
a) is admittedly a very small minority. I've never seen it happen to a magician but I have seen it happen to laymen though, and it's not pretty. Just be careful that if you challenge them, they really are heckling you. If I was watching someone perform, no matter how well or badly, I would never heckle a fellow magician. If they were just terrible I'd stick around to talk to them afterwards. Thing is, I could see a situation where a magician was having a bad day or just feeling brash, and if I said something like "nicely done" it could be taken the wrong way. If that magician were then to mistake my reaction as a challenge or a negative response and challenged me, I would most certainly take the deck and perform. I guess basically what I'm saying is just really be careful when you do challenge; I don't think it's wrong to challenge necessarily, but only at the right time. The right time will also depend on the rest of your audience and such factors.
b) I think that however nice you act, however neutral you act, it is inevitable that they will harbour some sort of negative emotion such as embarrassment or anger. As far as the heckler goes, I don't really care if they do feel that way (although, this isn't an issue with me since I don't handle hecklers this way). What's more important here is the attitude of your spectators. It's an option depending on many things, but most of all, your audience. Audience reading is one of the most important skills a magician can have and challenging and embarrassing should only be done in some contexts. If you're only performing for the heckler for example, or if you're performing for a group of blokes who consider each other brothers and would break your arm if you dissed one of them, well, maybe not. If you have a sympathetic audience though that themselves are telling the heckler to stop, a little laugh at their expense probably won't hurt.
i usually hand them the deck and just ask them to do it. There's no aggression involved, and i politely Bow and let them take the stage.
Being Heckled can be due to a lot of reasons, maybe they just find it intimidating that a little kid can do something spectacular, and they just want to bring him down. Its Natural. Hierarchy says so. Creating magic or amusement puts you in a higher position of Value, its instinct to take down that person in order to reign superiority.
It depends on the situation. If they consistently say "I KNOW HOW YOU DID THAT!!!" and whispers to the other spectators, i politely hand the deck and ask them to do it.
However if they just politely say "I know how you did that *winks* "
i'll just say "That's very good of you, you have sharp eyes or im not very good at magic *insert canned audience laughter here* "
or ask "Do you really? allright, can you be my assistant then?" then do two card monte or something similar that involves the spectator. (Exile? goddamnit i want it released!)
Being Heckled can be due to a lot of reasons, maybe they just find it intimidating that a little kid can do something spectacular, and they just want to bring him down. Its Natural. Hierarchy says so. Creating magic or amusement puts you in a higher position of Value, its instinct to take down that person in order to reign superiority.
It depends on the situation. If they consistently say "I KNOW HOW YOU DID THAT!!!" and whispers to the other spectators, i politely hand the deck and ask them to do it.
However if they just politely say "I know how you did that *winks* "
i'll just say "That's very good of you, you have sharp eyes or im not very good at magic *insert canned audience laughter here* "
or ask "Do you really? allright, can you be my assistant then?" then do two card monte or something similar that involves the spectator. (Exile? goddamnit i want it released!)
I totally agree. Audience reading is very important, and in strolling situations (which I think the mast majority of us perform in), a VERY good opener ( opening effect ) is needed. Not only should it be quick-paced, it should allow you to gauge the reactions of your spectators as well as pick out those who will prove any trouble in the future.
Hecklers find people to heckle... hopefully their heckling isn't a response to your magic style. That would be unfortunate. Tinker around with your style and audience control, and maybe give that heckler a bad angle or something. Works for me, but at the end I know that around 80% of my anti-heckler arsenal lies in stuff that requires no talking whatsoever.
Thanx for the feedback. I know this situation will not work for everyone. Audience control is a very good point. I should have named this thread MY #1 reply for hecklers. Everyone's performance is different just as every heckler is different. You can only the handle it the best way you can.
I am not sure if the surface has been scratched and that this has gone over many people's heads - the wrong message is being sent.
Jbear – I love when guys like you post with such anger towards performance issues, but have no experience to realize that it is YOU that is causing the issue.
When someone says, “I know how you did that” – it is an immediate response to “DUDE – I totally saw you do something fishy and know you need to do that to make the trick work” - people who say that AREN’T hecklers – they are doing you a favour. They are telling you that your method is transparent. They don’t know what you did, but they know you did something – and Vernon said, “If the audience knows you did something, it is as bad as if they know exactly what you did” – there is no magic.
Your immature response of putting the spectator in their place is why people HATE magic. This is magic malpractice for SURE!
A spectator’s job at its fundamental level is to try and figure you out…in other words – they are trying to NOT be fooled. Your basic job is to fool them. When you aren’t doing your job, it is easy for the audience to do theirs. When someone is catching you, they are saying, “I know how you did that” – they are saying – I saw you do something sneaky. Sure, you can be a jerk and say…well, you do it then…like they can instantly replicate your rehearsed movement after seeing it done sloppily once.
It would serve you better to say – what makes you think you know how it’s done? Did you see something? The participant may say, “yes, I saw you do (insert flash or mistake)” and you can grow from there.
If he is a real heckler, he will say…I don’t know, I didn’t see anything – then you can laugh it off and say – good…because I wanted to know how it was done too.
You are offering advice to a group of mixed magicians in talent and experience – I worry about the new guys that have read this and think it is a good idea.
NOTE THIS: Your emotionally based opinion is the WORST IDEA I have read on this forum. Please don’t think this is how you handle a spectator, as it just plays on people’s already existing insecurities when seeing magic – this guy is going to make me look stupid. If you want that as your message of what magic is – listen to Jbear…where the J will begin to stand for jerk.
Treat people with the respect they deserve and you will really start to see what is great about magic.
Jbear – I love when guys like you post with such anger towards performance issues, but have no experience to realize that it is YOU that is causing the issue.
When someone says, “I know how you did that” – it is an immediate response to “DUDE – I totally saw you do something fishy and know you need to do that to make the trick work” - people who say that AREN’T hecklers – they are doing you a favour. They are telling you that your method is transparent. They don’t know what you did, but they know you did something – and Vernon said, “If the audience knows you did something, it is as bad as if they know exactly what you did” – there is no magic.
Your immature response of putting the spectator in their place is why people HATE magic. This is magic malpractice for SURE!
A spectator’s job at its fundamental level is to try and figure you out…in other words – they are trying to NOT be fooled. Your basic job is to fool them. When you aren’t doing your job, it is easy for the audience to do theirs. When someone is catching you, they are saying, “I know how you did that” – they are saying – I saw you do something sneaky. Sure, you can be a jerk and say…well, you do it then…like they can instantly replicate your rehearsed movement after seeing it done sloppily once.
It would serve you better to say – what makes you think you know how it’s done? Did you see something? The participant may say, “yes, I saw you do (insert flash or mistake)” and you can grow from there.
If he is a real heckler, he will say…I don’t know, I didn’t see anything – then you can laugh it off and say – good…because I wanted to know how it was done too.
You are offering advice to a group of mixed magicians in talent and experience – I worry about the new guys that have read this and think it is a good idea.
NOTE THIS: Your emotionally based opinion is the WORST IDEA I have read on this forum. Please don’t think this is how you handle a spectator, as it just plays on people’s already existing insecurities when seeing magic – this guy is going to make me look stupid. If you want that as your message of what magic is – listen to Jbear…where the J will begin to stand for jerk.
Treat people with the respect they deserve and you will really start to see what is great about magic.
I have to agree with everything you said. It took a lot of direct impact slaps to the head to make these points clear to myself. The Professor (Vernon for some) makes a very good point. One trip up and it's all done. Although I put that bluntly, I am just referring to what you said as a whole above.
For the new guys reading all these posts, I think you should stop taking others advice and go out there and experiment on your own. Why bother worrying about hecklers when you rarely ever have any? It's just a possibility, but problems will arise if and when something goes wrong. Just concntrate on what you do, and don't worry about hecklers. Just keep a good attitude and don't let anyone ruin your magic. If you have to, finish the effect you're on and just walk away politely afterwards. Other than that, there isn't much else to learn. Evading hecklers isn't an art, and your time is much better spent making your magic better. =)
I like the idea of how a spectator can be used for good, in terms of revealing when you flash and stuff. On the other hand, that is just a very horrible situation to get into. At the point in time a spectator shows any sign of higher knowledge, you know you've not practiced enough. If it were up to me, and I was rich enough, I would supply the entire magic world with a mirror that folds out into three different angles. This tool is invaluable in working on sleights. A simple look in the mirror while performing does nothing though, so this "tri-mirror" works wonders. It's just a simple solution to flashing most people have, but don't think it is THE solution. Nothing beats determination and practice.
For the new guys reading all these posts, I think you should stop taking others advice and go out there and experiment on your own. Why bother worrying about hecklers when you rarely ever have any? It's just a possibility, but problems will arise if and when something goes wrong. Just concntrate on what you do, and don't worry about hecklers. Just keep a good attitude and don't let anyone ruin your magic. If you have to, finish the effect you're on and just walk away politely afterwards. Other than that, there isn't much else to learn. Evading hecklers isn't an art, and your time is much better spent making your magic better. =)
I like the idea of how a spectator can be used for good, in terms of revealing when you flash and stuff. On the other hand, that is just a very horrible situation to get into. At the point in time a spectator shows any sign of higher knowledge, you know you've not practiced enough. If it were up to me, and I was rich enough, I would supply the entire magic world with a mirror that folds out into three different angles. This tool is invaluable in working on sleights. A simple look in the mirror while performing does nothing though, so this "tri-mirror" works wonders. It's just a simple solution to flashing most people have, but don't think it is THE solution. Nothing beats determination and practice.
I never said to get angry. If you read all the posts you would see that I plainly said to be nice. Not mean. I am not angry at hecklers. You have many good points. They ARE trying to catch us and if they do it is something WE have done not them. They didn't come up to us and say "let's see some magic" You came up to them. Although calling people names like immature is immature itself. Why do you have to get violent in your post when I never did. Just correct me on some issues that you think are wrong. How do we know you have any more experience than the rest of us. Depending on the person, we both could be wrong. No one has the best answer we all just contribute our thoughts to help others. If you think it is stupid. DO NOT use it. Someone else may think it is a good idea. Maybe they have it in their routine to deal with them in a certain way. I never intended to be hateful to anyone. Please do not take it that way.
I'd done with this thread haha. I've spent too much time here haha! I should spend more time with my family lol
JBear,
You may not realize it - but your tactic of putting the audience on the spot will make them look stupid - this kind of response can only come from a few places - immaturity, anger or being completely ignorant of human relations.
I repeat - I HOPE TO GOD that nobody thinks your idea is good - because it is not - it actually is the reason you are probably facing so many hecklers.
Perhaps you state that you are not angry, but your condesending reaction to kind people that watch your little tricks...and pointing the finger at them to reproduce what they did - it appears as anger...even if you are being passive about it. Actually, they do studies on this kind of anger in school aged children - boys that punch versus the young girls that create hurtful gossip...just because you don't appear angry and state you do it in a nice way...doesn't mean you are being a nice person.
JBear - if you did your magic in a way that made it look moveless...while making people WANT to be fooled, you would see less and less hecklers....not just because your magic was better...but you may actually realize that there are the same number of hecklers, you just defuse them early enough to make them love magic.
I know my post seems harsh - as the truth often is - but it is meant to help you and to dissuade others from taking your advice - as it really is a bad idea to make your audience look so unintelligent - when they are trying to help you get better and are just being honest about YOUR mistake...like am I...and see the continual issue with your lack of personal accountability?
If you were side by side with your favourite magician and he gave you this advice - would you stick so closely to your prescription for abusing your spectators - if not - then you are treating my advice poorly, as it does warrant your FOCUSED attention....if so, you are self absorbed.
Either way - good luck with your journey - it's length does not depend on your skill, but the willingness for people to want to see your magic - if word gets out that you abuse your audience...you may have to try a different hobby.
I never intended to be hateful to anyone either, so please don't take it that way - just take it as blunt advice that is needed on a wall of posts that appeared to miss the boat for the most part.
You may not realize it - but your tactic of putting the audience on the spot will make them look stupid - this kind of response can only come from a few places - immaturity, anger or being completely ignorant of human relations.
I repeat - I HOPE TO GOD that nobody thinks your idea is good - because it is not - it actually is the reason you are probably facing so many hecklers.
Perhaps you state that you are not angry, but your condesending reaction to kind people that watch your little tricks...and pointing the finger at them to reproduce what they did - it appears as anger...even if you are being passive about it. Actually, they do studies on this kind of anger in school aged children - boys that punch versus the young girls that create hurtful gossip...just because you don't appear angry and state you do it in a nice way...doesn't mean you are being a nice person.
JBear - if you did your magic in a way that made it look moveless...while making people WANT to be fooled, you would see less and less hecklers....not just because your magic was better...but you may actually realize that there are the same number of hecklers, you just defuse them early enough to make them love magic.
I know my post seems harsh - as the truth often is - but it is meant to help you and to dissuade others from taking your advice - as it really is a bad idea to make your audience look so unintelligent - when they are trying to help you get better and are just being honest about YOUR mistake...like am I...and see the continual issue with your lack of personal accountability?
If you were side by side with your favourite magician and he gave you this advice - would you stick so closely to your prescription for abusing your spectators - if not - then you are treating my advice poorly, as it does warrant your FOCUSED attention....if so, you are self absorbed.
Either way - good luck with your journey - it's length does not depend on your skill, but the willingness for people to want to see your magic - if word gets out that you abuse your audience...you may have to try a different hobby.
I never intended to be hateful to anyone either, so please don't take it that way - just take it as blunt advice that is needed on a wall of posts that appeared to miss the boat for the most part.
Morgician. Thank you for the help, but i have never had one heckler. I make sure that doesn't happen with extreme practice. I think you have some really good advice and thanx for sharing your opinion. Many, many other people have said the same thing I have, so it is not coming from my delusions. Check out other posts about hecklers and you will see. The point I am trying to make is you are calling people immature and angry, this is something schoolboys do also. Don't be condescending to other magicians as your advice gives for spectators. Treat other magicians with respect also. Beginner or not. If we all were professional magicians we wouldn't be wasting our time in these forums. THE TIME SHOULD BE SPENT MAKING OUR ROUTINES AND PRACTICING. My opinion and anyone else's doesn't really matter. People will do what they feel is best.
Hmm wait. I don't know what sounds more ridiculous; that you have never ever had one heckler, or that you're offering "Your" solution in a public forum without ever testing anything out. Perhaps that's why you don't realise why many people here believe that your response is a bad one - you've never actually stayed around to try it!
What hecklers? I thought you never had any.
Again, I thought you never had hecklers? So what you're saying is, you're just offering blind, untested and completely unsupportable advice you've never actually tested?
What about the experienced people that say the same exact thing. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm It has been tested. Not by me per se, but by many others. It is the way I would handle them. PLEASE read all the posts before you reply. I also said it may not be right for everyone. If you don't like it DON'T USE IT. If you have a better way then let me know. Please read all the posts as they have some information you may have missed.
Name one in this thread who has. Now name everyone who says differently in the thread. "Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm." Sarcasm makes you look like an arrogant idiot, it doesn't suit you.
So I ask again, why would you offer opinion you haven't actually tested?
I have read all the posts in the thread, have you? I found one person who said they used your technique in a very limited circumstance, and merely from observation (not a criticism), this person is not what I'd consider experienced in any way. I did offer my opinion earlier in the thread. I don't see what I might have missed from other posts and I fail to see the point of you telling me to read everything, believe me, I did. What we're saying is that we don't believe it's right for anyone. If you haven't realised by now that many people have offered better ways to deal with hecklers, I would suggest that it is you who needs to read the thread again, all of the posts.
And again, you haven't offered any rebuttal to the multiple contradictions you've made in yours posts.
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Here's one and YOU started the bashing.
Immaturity is bashing other people. Wisdom is helping them. You have done nothing but bash an idea. You have done nothing to help me and I AM getting aggravated. I'm aggravated by people who just bash everyone on these forums and do nothing in any way to help them. You haven'y explained your experiences and ideas. I think that would do more good than basically calling me an idiot. Where are your ideas. Where are your thoughts. Where are your experiences. I never said I was right. I was just giving an idea. If you would look I have NEVER once said anything mean spirited and have actually apologized for people taking it that way. The sarcasm came with your bashing.
I have never had a heckler in magic. I have had many in juggling. I have used the same thing for them too. I learned if you practice enough and are good they won't heckle you. You may have someone that just wants to be the center of attention. That you can't help.