My head is about to explode. Please everyone attend a kindergarten class where we learn to respect others' ideas, no matter how ridiculous or logical they are =) Maybe we should get back to the specific topic about the #1 heckler response, or however you phrase it. maybe if someone disagrees, then he/she should POST another thread bashing the ideas in this one. everyone keep consistent to the topic at hand =)
#1 Reply for Hecklers
- Thread starter jbear574
- Start date
Oh dear, oh dear.
My dear friend, perhaps you need to read my posts a little more carefully. I have never bashed your ideas; in fact if you really did read my posts, I actually supported them in a certain circumstance. Apparently, you missed that. I have not called you an idiot in any way; I merely stated that you seem like one because of the tone of voice that you adopt towards anyone who disagrees with you.
I merely stated the irony of supporting a theory you've never tested. Your statements in light of the entire thread in context seem silly to me, and I'm not one to butter things up.
Being a juggler you should know that hecklers for different art forms cannot be compared to one another. I am an actor by profession; surely you should know that it is illogical to substitute juggling with magic. By all means, refer to your experience as a juggler; as a performer I respect that. Nonetheless there is a distinction between audiences for different types of entertainment, something I'm sure you're aware of. Essentially however, due to this distinction, your theory is, and remains, untested by you. Which is where my issue with all this started.
Now, address my post in its entirety, please. I simply asked that you consider the number of people who have posted for your idea, and the number who have posted against. Posting the one person who agreed with you, I must say, isn't particularly helpful.
I also asked you to clear up some contradictions in your previous posts, and you have not done so. Here's another one:
You stated you have never had hecklers during your magic. Then in your last post, you stated this:
The word "too" suggests that you have in fact used this method for hecklers other than in juggling since it refers to something above and beyond the aforementioned context.
So which is it?
I have focussed my criticism on the fact that your posts have been contradictory and the fact that you support this theory whilst maintaining that you have never actually used it.
One should practice what he preaches, before he preaches what he practices.
I repeat, hecklers for juggling and any other performing arts are different from magic or theatre or any other performing art. A juggling heckler cannot say "You made a secret move." or "You flashed." due to the nature of the art.
Finally, if you really had read all my posts, you would've known that I chose not to give my own approach to hecklers because I've done so in multiple threads before. If you wish to do some proper research and find those out, be my guest. Again, rather than disagreeing (I fail to see how disagreeing is bashing... Stating that something is ridiculous is not bashing, it's an opinion. If I said the earth was a banana, that would be a ridiculous statement in most people's opinions, but it would not be bashing, despite being ridiculous) with your idea, I merely object to the untested nature of what I believe to be bad advice, in a public forum. The focus is not that I believe that it's bad advice, but rather that it's untested. You are, after all, entitled to your opinion.
@TheKingofCards, I agree about respecting ideas. I have even agreed to a certain point with jbear's ideas. Yes I disagree for the most part, but I did make an allowance in an earlier post for his ideas. But that is not the debate that I have put forward. I simply have a problem with offering an untested idea, and I have a problem with continuing contradictions.
I do disagree with you however that we should respect a ridiculous idea. I believe that we should respect one's right to hold a ridiculous idea (again, my issue is not that he has this idea, but that he's supporting it on a public forum without experience), but I also believe that it is well within our rights to challenge the notion which we believe to be ridiculous in the first place. Simply put, if someone believed that the Earth was in fact a banana, I would respect their right to have that notion, but I would challenge the actual notion.
I hope I made clear the distinctions I was trying to make.
I got sick reading that. I'm taking the SAT this weekend after homecoming week and I'm sick of grammar hahahahah! NO MORE analysis !!!! RAwr
If their is a difference between different arts then why does a comedian make fun of the heckler. That's embaressing for them sometimes. An actor might even say"You try it." It is NO different an any art. The wording may be different like "I saw you flash". In comedy this could be "I have heard that joke before". Same thing. Different context. You still haven't posted any of your experiences. How do we know your ideas are logical. Let's not get into whether who is right or wrong. I bet many others on these forums that give advice have little or no experience. It reallly doesn't matter how much experience you have because every heckler is different. Every situation is different. What if they were to take it from you and start performing, messed up and embaressed themselves. It is no different than you helping them to embaress themselves. Everyone should just handle it the best way they feel is right at the time. Whether they walk away or punch the guy out or embaress them. You may wish top take their girlfriend out to piss them off. Whatever. The main point is do what you want.
i really dont get the post..
you attack the logic of his ideas, say that he hasnt posted his experiences and then claim that many people on these forums dont have experience.
my friend, you yourself have admited that youve never had any magic hecklers. How does that put you in a position to judge at all?
"What if they were to take it from you and start performing, messed up and embaressed themselves. It is no different than you helping them to embaress themselves."
isnt that what youre doing here? offering advice without experience?
i dont get you man...
really dont get the post..
you attack the logic of his ideas, say that he hasnt posted his experiences and then claim that many people on these forums dont have experience.
my friend, you yourself have admited that youve never had any magic hecklers. How does that put you in a position to judge at all?
"What if they were to take it from you and start performing, messed up and embaressed themselves. It is no different than you helping them to embaress themselves."
isnt that what youre doing here? offering advice without experience?
I never attacked his logic or ideas. He hasn't given any. Hecklers are the same in any art form. Where's YOUR experience. All of the replys I have seen have done nothing but quote and bash what I have said. NOT ONE of you has posted ideas or experiences. Probably because you don't have any. I have plainly stated I don't have experience. If you are all so experienced why have I never heard of you before. FooL is a correct username for you. Give us some of your genius. I bet you will only quote this post.
you attack the logic of his ideas, say that he hasnt posted his experiences and then claim that many people on these forums dont have experience.
my friend, you yourself have admited that youve never had any magic hecklers. How does that put you in a position to judge at all?
"What if they were to take it from you and start performing, messed up and embaressed themselves. It is no different than you helping them to embaress themselves."
isnt that what youre doing here? offering advice without experience?
I never attacked his logic or ideas. He hasn't given any. Hecklers are the same in any art form. Where's YOUR experience. All of the replys I have seen have done nothing but quote and bash what I have said. NOT ONE of you has posted ideas or experiences. Probably because you don't have any. I have plainly stated I don't have experience. If you are all so experienced why have I never heard of you before. FooL is a correct username for you. Give us some of your genius. I bet you will only quote this post.
I'd say if one posts a topic on a discussion thread, he is opening his submission up to criticism and DISCUSSION. This is a discussion forum!
It's not a case of 'I'll write what I like and everyone can pat me on the back, but if you disagree, it MUST start an argument'.
Thats the beauitful thing about discussion- you CAN react or respond any way you like.
Even if somebody does 'BASH' what the thread starter says, it is still on topic, mate.
Everybody WILL attack the problem of hecklers differently, but ultimately, whether they are rebuked or held in esteem from their peers for their preferred response, It is how succesful we are in our chosen path that will indicate whether we are right or wrong.
CL
If you don't have anything to say to help, as it seems no one does. Then this thread is useless. Have fun with your hecklers. Probably was your mother. I have nothing else to say and you are just wasting my time. I'm out. Feel free to bash me as much as like when I'm gone for you are immature and I don't need the advice you haven't given me. I will no longer be a part of theory 11 forums for no one can help me or anyone seems to want to.
If you wish to see my thoughts, as I have posted numerous times, do some research, they're in many heckler threads on these forums. I'd like to see you actually read my posts for once; rather than assume I have never posted experiences or opinions, I've said many times that I have in fact done so, if you could be bothered to read them. If, on the other hand, you don't want to acknowledge my on the record opinions, or the numerous other valid points made against you in this thread, then yes, you'd better leave.
I'D BETTER. OR WHAT. What is your dumbass going to do about. I would kick your ass in a second. Why don't you come here to my ghetto and get your ass kicked. Watch how you word stuff. It would have been better to say "I don't agree with your opinion and this is where you can find my posts to read." Or post them again here. If people can call me names like JERK, RIDICULOUS, IDIOT (All these have been used here) then you can post your opinion. I have never called anyone any names. If ya got the guts bring it BIOTCH. By the way how old are you? If you are young then shut up. You don't have enough life experience to help anyone. If you are older then your dumb as a brick. Remember a discussion does not have to turn into an argument. ALMOST everyone on this thread has done nothing but argue about it and not post anything of significance. DO YOU SEE THE ANGER NOW. Don't be an a-hole. The kick your ass part replys to ANYONE that wants to be rude to me when I wasn't rude to anyone unless they were rude first. I will give you my name and address, AND send you the money to come here if ya want to talk S$#%.
i have been performing for 4 years and i have come across numerous hecklers in my day. I would say i have more experience than you when it comes to dealing with magic hecklers.
"If you are all so experienced why have I never heard of you before. "
Your experience=fame logic is very flawed.
I have taken many peoples advice and given my own on the other threads that exist. Perhaphs you should try using the wonderful search function.
(Also, you could read the forums rules.)
You claim to have a #1 response to hecklers but somehow you havent HAD any in the context of magic. Therefore, i fail to see how your advice can be in very useful in relation to our art form. Hecklers are not the same in every art form. As you have said before
"situation will not work for everyone.... Everyone's performance is different just as every heckler is different."
Also, do NOT come here, say things like
"The point I am trying to make is you are calling people immature and angry, this is something schoolboys do also. Don't be condescending to other magicians as your advice gives for spectators. Treat other magicians with respect also. Beginner or not. "
"Where are your ideas. Where are your thoughts. Where are your experiences. I never said I was right. I was just giving an idea. If you would look I have NEVER once said anything mean spirited "
then insult my username and outrightly call me a fool when you yourself have no experience.
Infact,
im sure this shows a ton of maturity and insight on your part.
thank god youre leaving.
Think of it as a little boy who laughs at a nude portrait because he doesnt understand the beauty of the brushwork. should the artist chastise him and throw him a brush-making him embarrassed, potentially making him hate the art even more, or should the artist talk to the boy to better help him undertand?
This is the same thing as I said before. Immaturity in bashing others. Wisdom is helping them. Where has your help been. I also stated that I have not been rude unless anyone else has FIRST. If in your 4 years of VAST knowledge in the same city is worth anything why haven't you given much knowledge? Maybe we should stop quoting each other and give me some other ideas. I am sure there is alot of good AND bad ideas. So far maybe 1 or 2 people have given some help such as working on audience awareness and so forth. If they have had good points you will see I have pointed them out. Where's yours?
This is the same thing as I said before. Immaturity in bashing others. Wisdom is helping them. Where has your help been. I also stated that I have not been rude unless anyone else has FIRST. If in your 4 years of VAST knowledge in the same city is worth anything why haven't you given much knowledge? Maybe we should stop quoting each other and give me some other ideas. I am sure there is alot of good AND bad ideas. So far maybe 1 or 2 people have given some help such as working on audience awareness and so forth. If they have had good points you will see I have pointed them out. Where's yours?
Pardon- I thought Theory 11 was meant to be a 'haven' for magicians? This thread puts that to a disgrace. One of you Man up and apologise- and start respecting another one's opinion.
Who gives a rat's ass? If a T11 artist Like Wayne houchin was to get involved and contradict you (either one of you) Badly in an aggressive manner- Im sure that you'll react differently, Seeing as how he is ranked in the Theory 11 Hiearchy. But seeing as that you're both just plain members, Man the F* up and respect each other's opinions. it doesnt even matter anyways, Magicians should consider other magicians as frickin brothers- we all follow the same Art, but each has a different way of presenting it or tackling problems.
Ironic, In a way you're both just Heckling each other. Person A criticizes Person B's Tactic in Heckling management, and the same with Person B with Person A.
I'll also gladly input my opinion here, bearing in mind that i personally think Experience is the best teacher. And Mr. Foo:L here seems to have a lot of it.
and dare i say i would be more than willing to enter the argument with two years of Cardistry below my belt. (nothing much, but if you perform almost everyday, i think that says something)
Man up kiddies, Man the hell up.
Who gives a rat's ass? If a T11 artist Like Wayne houchin was to get involved and contradict you (either one of you) Badly in an aggressive manner- Im sure that you'll react differently, Seeing as how he is ranked in the Theory 11 Hiearchy. But seeing as that you're both just plain members, Man the F* up and respect each other's opinions. it doesnt even matter anyways, Magicians should consider other magicians as frickin brothers- we all follow the same Art, but each has a different way of presenting it or tackling problems.
Ironic, In a way you're both just Heckling each other. Person A criticizes Person B's Tactic in Heckling management, and the same with Person B with Person A.
I'll also gladly input my opinion here, bearing in mind that i personally think Experience is the best teacher. And Mr. Foo:L here seems to have a lot of it.
and dare i say i would be more than willing to enter the argument with two years of Cardistry below my belt. (nothing much, but if you perform almost everyday, i think that says something)
Man up kiddies, Man the hell up.
lol.
Oh noes! Somebody doesn't like me! On the internetz!!1!
Look man, I'm sorry if you felt I was insulting you or your ideas. As I mentioned earlier, I do respect your right to have them. Incidentally, as it stands I have merely stated that you seem so and so or that an idea sounds so and so - I have never intended to insult you, and if that was how it was inferred, I do apologise. My criticism has been focussed solely on the untested nature of your idea, but I do not question your right to have them.
Sinful07, I agree on principle, but I submit that I have focussed my criticism on the fact that he has presented this "tactic in heckling management" without testing it out first. I have by and large not criticised his actual tactic, merely that he has not tested them. In fact I supported his tactic in a certain circumstance in an earlier post. I hope your post was not addressed to me because if it was, you clearly did not read my posts carefully enough, and I suggest that you are in no position to call anyone a "kiddie", mate. Talk about irony; criticising others' criticisms by trying to insult people, good work there.
Again, I have never disrespected his actual opinion, I have disagreed with it for the most part yes, but I have criticised his inability to test out his theory. But I vigorously defend my right to criticise what is laid forward on a public forum as untested opinion. I respect his right to have such an opinion, but this is not about whether or not I respect it, my criticism has always been based on whether or not I agree with it in principle; I do not, and will not apologise for this.
I can usually read people before I even speak to them, and once I've started performing it's very easy to tell if a person is a heckler or not; simply by their attitude and body posture.
I befriend my hecklers. If I'm in the mood, I'll over exaggerate everything and change the story into a joke. I'll get them to laugh, finish the one trick, and then move on.
Or just totally throw away any rehearsed performance/patter of the trick and adjust it to the spectator(s) at hand. I do this anyways.
Good luck,
Ben
I befriend my hecklers. If I'm in the mood, I'll over exaggerate everything and change the story into a joke. I'll get them to laugh, finish the one trick, and then move on.
Or just totally throw away any rehearsed performance/patter of the trick and adjust it to the spectator(s) at hand. I do this anyways.
Good luck,
Ben
Thank you, and I again apologise for any insults which may have been inferred - I honestly say that I did not mean to insult you or demean you personally in any manner.
Benjamind brings a very good point about audience reading; I've written about this in a few threads but audience reading should be at the center of every performance and every decision you make, I think that that is such an important part of performing... React to how you read your spectators, change things, don't change things, whatever you do should be based on the heckler as well as the rest of the audience and how they are acting and reacting.