Celebracadabra

[Steerpike]

Nobody expects E to sit down and reply to each and every single bit of hate mail they're receiving about the show.

Actually, there are people who think that.

A single statement from E highlighting everyone's general problems with the show would do wonders, in my opinion.

It's not going to shut people up, because they're addicted to their own imagined conflict. They don't want an answer, they want to be right.

but if I had numerous amounts of people complaining about something that I am directly involved in and some people saying they will boycott my company because of it,

A boycott of a magic shop is what's called an idle threat. I refuse to shop at Penguin for moral reasons, but I don't harbor any dellusions that I'm somehow making a bold artistic statement. And it's not like my personal refusal to shop there is going to put them out of business.

Besides, most of the people crying and ruining their mascara over this whole non-issue already hated Ellusionist to begin with. For those people to say that they're going to boycott Ellusionist is like an anorexic saying they're protesting with a hunger strike.

 

[2ndDeal]

I don't like Ellusionist for these reasons:

They don't care about credits
They market magic as an easy way to be cool
Most of the stuff they sell isn't simply good


I don't want that beginning magicians think that magic is cool thing and they are cool because of magic. I hate it when beginners write "2CM" when they are referring to Be Honest, What It Is. And I don't want that beginners think they are better magicians because of their black cards.

Of course I'm exaggerating. Not everyone who comes from Ellusionist is idiot. But Ellusionist does it's best to make them idiots.

Because of these reasons, I don't like the idea of TV show full of Ellusionist's "Learn this trick at ellusionist.com" ads.

My wild and impossible dream is that when someone thinks about starting magic he does a google search, and on top is a site of local magic club. He goes there, and sees some magic and someone advises him in person to how to proceed with his hobby.

 

[Steerpike]

They don't care about credits

If you're referring to the earlier DVDs, new pressings and editions have since addressed that issue.

They market magic as an easy way to be cool

You are aware that has been the advertising gimmick in magic for the better part of the last century, aren't you?

Has anyone here ever seen those old ads from the 50's?

Most of the stuff they sell isn't simply good

No accounting for taste.

I don't want that beginning magicians think that magic is cool thing and they are cool because of magic. I hate it when beginners write "2CM" when they are referring to Be Honest, What It Is. And I don't want that beginners think they are better magicians because of their black cards.

Ignorance can be corrected. Those who do not wish to be corrected are either proud or stupid. Nothing can be done about either.

If you can fix it, then fix it. If you can't, let them fail.

I'm a guitarist, but I don't feel the need to go on a crusade against those shallow tools on college campuses who play Brown-Eyed Girl by Van Morrisson thinking it's going to impress all the girls. Instead, I just make fun of them.

But Ellusionist does it's best to make them idiots.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating. We don't need to pull ads to protect everyone else from our own temptation.

I know for a fact that wearing Axe bodyspray is not going to make me a heartthrob (my Byronesque good looks already do that), but I don't need Axe to take their commercials off the air to protect everyone else.

If you're really that concerned, start mentoring younger magicians yourself.

 

[2ndDeal]

If you're referring to the earlier DVDs, new pressings and editions have since addressed that issue.

Fair enough.

You are aware that has been the advertising gimmick in magic for the better part of the last century, aren't you?

Because it's done before doesn't make it right now. Of course, Ellusionist didn't invent marketing magic, it's just the most popular example at the moment.

I'm a guitarist, but I don't feel the need to go on a crusade against those shallow tools on college campuses who play Brown-Eyed Girl by Van Morrisson thinking it's going to impress all the girls. Instead, I just make fun of them.

I'm not crusading either, if that's what you mean. I'm discussing a topic on Internet.

 

[Steerpike]

Because it's done before doesn't make it right now. Of course, Ellusionist didn't invent marketing magic, it's just the most popular example at the moment.

Advertising has been based on manipulation instead of information for ages. They do it because it works. Just look at Theory-11, for god's sake. Were it medically possible to OD on irony, almost everyone here who criticizes Ellusionist's marketing strategies would be 6 feet under right now.

The truth of the matter is that hype is the name of the game in advertising because nobody wants to be facted to death. Showing a picture of a magician with a pack of Vipers getting reactions from a group of hot girls in a nightclub is more appealling than showing a picture of the deck with a laundry list in fine print of all the good things about the cards proper. You know on some level that I'm right.

It's my personal belief that the people who complain the most about hype were the ones who got burned by it, but can't take responsibility for their own decisions. I know Bowflex is never going to turn me into a bodybuilder with biceps the size of a decent-sized infant like on the commercials, but I don't want the commercial taken off the air. I have too much self-respect to humiliate myself by requesting such a thing. It would be like announcing to the world that I'm stupid, weak, and completely helpless to think for myself in defiance of my television and its crafty trickery.

 

[MattTarrant]

Posted on a Pussy Cat Dolls Forum by 'Ellusionist'


"The show most likely airs in April. We sponsored the show and it's hot... Kim kicked ass! She learned some great magic and put the 'Pussy Cat Dolls' style into her performance. You'll get some great advance clips and pictures at the Ellusionist blog over the next couple of months, be sure to check it: http://blog.ellusionist.com/?p=36. You can see a picture of Kim holding the Ace of Spades from one of our custom decks. If you want to get those decks they're located at: http://www.ellusionist.com/product/playing+cards/bicycle+ghost/bicycle+ghost+deck.do

Have fun, the show is going to ROCK!"

 

[Cyrus]

Posted on a Pussy Cat Dolls Forum by 'Ellusionist'


"The show most likely airs in April. We sponsored the show and it's hot... Kim kicked ass! She learned some great magic and put the 'Pussy Cat Dolls' style into her performance. You'll get some great advance clips and pictures at the Ellusionist blog over the next couple of months, be sure to check it: http://blog.ellusionist.com/?p=36. You can see a picture of Kim holding the Ace of Spades from one of our custom decks. If you want to get those decks they're located at: http://www.ellusionist.com/product/playing+cards/bicycle+ghost/bicycle+ghost+deck.do

Have fun, the show is going to ROCK!"

HAHAHA, seriously. They take every single possible opportunity to market their decks, at least Theory 11 doesn't constantly remind people of their custom decks and try their best to keep spreading the work at every opening.

 

[MattTarrant]

I know.

Money. Hungry.

 

[Steerpike]

HAHAHA, seriously. They take every single possible opportunity to market their decks,

Anyone who says they wouldn't is either lying or stupid.

Some people are going to label me a whore for this and completely disregard my opinion for what I'm about to say, but it's not as if that many of you were ever listening in the first place. Anyway...

My site recently went live, and the only reason I haven't plugged it here yet is because I don't think anyone here would care, nor do I feel like getting erroneously banned for advertising. That doesn't mean I'm not relentlessly promoting it everywhere else though.

Shameless self-promotion is a key to success.

You criticize Ellusionist for taking every opportunity to plug their custom decks, but if you want the honest truth, I'm taking a page out of The Misfits book. As soon as I have the money to open the store on my site, I'm slapping my logo on everything that'll hold still and promoting the crap out of it.

Why? Because I like living in a house as opposed to a cardboard box. And I enjoy certain luxuries like being able to afford food.

and try their best to keep spreading the work at every opening.

Remember what I said earlier about ODing on irony?

I know.

Money. Hungry.

"I have all-american values. I LOVE money!"
-Alice Cooper

"We got to talking and realized we have one great thing in common: your money."
-Johnny Rotten about the Sex Pistols reunion tour

"Your money is now our money and we will spend it on drugs!"
-Mastodon in their song Cut You Up with a Linoleum Knife


For some reason, many artistic types seem to think that turning a profit is evil. Your art is supposed to somehow keep your bill collectors at bay, put food on the table, and keep you above the poverty line. I never understood that, but that's probably because I'm not pretentious enough.

 

[MattTarrant]

Steerpike,

I think your confused if you think you will get banned at T11 for promoting.

 

[Steerpike]

Let us just say that there is a moderator here that I don't think particularly well of, nor do I trust him. And no, I'm not going to say who.

Getting back to the point, I think it's rather telling of the character of these forums that more people find this offensive...

"The show most likely airs in April. We sponsored the show and it's hot... Kim kicked ass! She learned some great magic and put the 'Pussy Cat Dolls' style into her performance. You'll get some great advance clips and pictures at the Ellusionist blog over the next couple of months, be sure to check it: http://blog.ellusionist.com/?p=36. You can see a picture of Kim holding the Ace of Spades from one of our custom decks. If you want to get those decks they're located at: http://www.ellusionist.com/product/p...+ghost+deck.do

Have fun, the show is going to ROCK!"

... than there are people who find this offensive...

that Pussycat Doll whore

You know what the ironic thing about this situation is? I'm into metal and horrorpunk, so by stereotypes I'm supposed to be the one who hates everything mainstream and money-related. And I'm a member of the PUA community, so again going by stereotypes, I'm supposed to be the pig.

For the love of George Romero, I really hate magicians.

 

[fridoliina]

Well people do not know about magic shops in that way that you can go and buy every singel thing in it, do you really think people would think it was amazing then? probably not.

This does not effect me at all since im just performing my own material.

I just think its sad to see what what magic has become.

The reason i dont like Ellusionist is that they advertise magic as something you should use to get cool and popular. And you dont need any talent att all! Just buy this new deck and trick and you will be the king of the party.

Another reason is that their magic effects are not that good at all if you start to explore some other material but they always state that its something new and better then everything else. They make people think its all in the effect not that you have to be a good performer.

 

[Rabid]

I just think its sad to see what what magic has become.

As Simple Minds once sang...."Same as it ever was...same as it ever was."

The reason i dont like Ellusionist is that they advertise magic as something you should use to get cool and popular. And you dont need any talent att all! Just buy this new deck and trick and you will be the king of the party.

As far as I'm aware, nowhere on the site does it say anything of the kind.
If you're referring to:

"Beginners start here. Do mind blowing magic in hours. Walk into any room and amaze."....well, I'd say that's just about right. Couple of hours is all that's needed for a few of the tricks on HTDSM. However, as is pointed out again and again on the DVD and in ALL Brad's discs, plus just about everywhere on the forums...practice, practice, practice and hone your performance skills.

Another reason is that their magic effects are not that good at all if you start to explore some other material but they always state that its something new and better then everything else.

The same way everyone selling anything says that's it's the best thing money can buy.
Take a look around you for Heaven's sake.

As for the effects not being good...well, that's merely a matter of opinion and taste. I know people who don't like the tricks that have been brought out on this site. I could tell them they're stupid and that they don't know what they're talking about, but if they don't like em', then they don't like em'. Period.

I love Shifty...I know lots who don't.

Life is like that sometimes...funnily enough, it never actually revolves around one person at all.

They make people think its all in the effect not that you have to be a good performer.

No they don't.



Seriously...am I the only person who's read anything written by Steerpike in this thread??



Y'all need to calm yourselves down a little bit...you'll end up with a coronary before you 20th birthdays.



Rabid

 

[fridoliina]

As Simple Minds once sang...."Same as it ever was...same as it ever was."




As far as I'm aware, nowhere on the site does it say anything of the kind.
If you're referring to:

"Beginners start here. Do mind blowing magic in hours. Walk into any room and amaze."....well, I'd say that's just about right. Couple of hours is all that's needed for a few of the tricks on HTDSM. However, as is pointed out again and again on the DVD and in ALL Brad's discs, plus just about everywhere on the forums...practice, practice, practice and hone your performance skills.




The same way everyone selling anything says that's it's the best thing money can buy.
Take a look around you for Heaven's sake.

As for the effects not being good...well, that's merely a matter of opinion and taste. I know people who don't like the tricks that have been brought out on this site. I could tell them they're stupid and that they don't know what they're talking about, but if they don't like em', then they don't like em'. Period.

I love Shifty...I know lots who don't.

Life is like that sometimes...funnily enough, it never actually revolves around one person at all.





No they don't.



Seriously...am I the only person who's read anything written by Steerpike in this thread??



Y'all need to calm yourselves down a little bit...you'll end up with a coronary before you 20th birthdays.



Rabid

We are not saying that they are wrong nor anyone else is wrong. We are just saying that we dont like it. I understand Brad and the otherones at team E they are doing a wonderfull jobb with their marketing and their site and most people would do the same in their situations.

 

[Ben Morris-Rains]

Although I haven't been following this thread, I watched a little bit of the show and generally liked it. It was interesting watching them try and reel in a crowd.

I googled celebracadabra and came up with a few forums and discussions about the show. This comment from one individual was very interesting:

"I hope that now that they are done taking time with introducing the contestants and the coaches, we'll get to actually see how some tricks are done and learned. It's not going to be very interesting otherwise."

Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Steerpike]

We are not saying that they are wrong nor anyone else is wrong.

Yes you are. You're preaching a right way and a wrong way to advertise. A right way and a wrong way to be a magician.

I understand Brad and the otherones at team E they are doing a wonderfull jobb with their marketing and their site and most people would do the same in their situations.

So they're doing a good job, and yet they're hurting magic with their sponsorships and their taglines.

Which is it?

 

[Jakeh]

Let us just say that there is a moderator here that I don't think particularly well of, nor do I trust him. And no, I'm not going to say who.

Getting back to the point, I think it's rather telling of the character of these forums that more people find this offensive...



... than there are people who find this offensive...



You know what the ironic thing about this situation is? I'm into metal and horrorpunk, so by stereotypes I'm supposed to be the one who hates everything mainstream and money-related. And I'm a member of the PUA community, so again going by stereotypes, I'm supposed to be the pig.

For the love of George Romero, I really hate magicians.

If you find something that has nothing to do with you offensive, then you have major issues. Did I say "That Steerpike bastard?" No, I don't think I did, so I don't feel you need to comment about my opinion on this "singer."

 

[Jakeh]

"I hope that now that they are done taking time with introducing the contestants and the coaches, we'll get to actually see how some tricks are done and learned. It's not going to be very interesting otherwise."

Talk amongst yourselves.

See? How is THAT positive for this art? That comment is basically saying "If they don't say it, I'm gonna YouTube it."

Go E!

 

[PMR]

Jakeh, the fact that someone can take offense to your demeaning remarks does not mean they have major issues. You're lovely use of the language is highly commendable, as is your perception of women....

I can only hope you'll grow out of it.

Quote:
"I hope that now that they are done taking time with introducing the contestants and the coaches, we'll get to actually see how some tricks are done and learned. It's not going to be very interesting otherwise."

Talk amongst yourselves.
See? How is THAT positive for this art? That comment is basically saying "If they don't say it, I'm gonna YouTube it."

Go E!

I believe that person had that opinion on magic before he saw the show, everyone wants to know how magic is achieved. (And don't try to counter that arguement with saying that your magic is so entertaining that you spectators don't want to know how, or that these "celebrities" are presenting them as tricks and not magic. Magic is all about questioning things, and people will ask how the hell it was done no matter how entertaining or well presented it was, the fact that they are left wonder is the very essence of magic.)

And also, you make a valid arguement, "If they don't say it, I'm gonna YouTube it." This clearly shows that the show isn't revealing anything and that YouTube is a far greater threat. Secondly, it's not a secret that there are secrets in magic. There have been countless tv shows, and not the Masked Magician etc., that talk about mentoring in magic. Penn & Teller have done one such series, The Secret World of Magic aired in the UK did something similar, and another UK show called "Convetion Crasher" followed a "celebritie's" route to becoming a magician, all of which showed magic in a good light. I see no reason why Celebracadabra can't do the same.

The fact that this show shows that the participants have mentors enforces the idea that they aren't common secrets or something that's easy to pick up. As for E, they have a good marketing scheme. They know how to sell their products, but their products aren't degrading the art in the slightest. The dvds go into the presentation side of magic in great detail, Brad's own enthusiasm and respect for the art can only rub off on you, and some of the dvds are solely based on teaching the principles that go into creating magic, not tricks. E is a good starting point for a beginner, and they do teach good morales. Nor can it be denied that their forum is a good learning ground, with some great posts buried in the midst of trivial threads that are also common to here.



I'd just like to raise this though, Ellusionist only sponsors this show, but I don't see anyone here slandering the likes of David Regal, Simon Lovell or Rocco Silano for their direct participation with this show. Is this thread another rant on E, or is it about the show?

The fact is whingers get nowhere in life. So best of luck with it.

 

[Steerpike]

If you find something that has nothing to do with you offensive, then you have major issues. Did I say "That Steerpike bastard?" No, I don't think I did, so I don't feel you need to comment about my opinion on this "singer."

Didn't think someone would actually call you out on that, did you?

I'm going to make this clear. What you said was classless, stupid, unfounded, and petty. I have no tolerance for any of the above and I am going to say so. If you can't express yourself like an intelligent human being, then save us all the trouble and don't open your mouth in the first place. I suggest you keep all that in mind in the future before you decide the word "opinion" gives you carte blanche immunity to say whatever idiotic thing you want.

I have issues? No, child. I simply stand up for what I believe in.

See? How is THAT positive for this art? That comment is basically saying "If they don't say it, I'm gonna YouTube it."

Go E!

Not only do you look at that quote and think that's indicative of all the viewers of the show, but now you go on to act as if Ellusionist invented stupid people.

Just when I think you can't sink any lower, I find a gaping hole in the floor.

What's it like being a magician who hates his audience?

This is the reason I'm always so outraged. I prefer the company of my spectators, even the tough ones, to the lot of you.

I'd just like to raise this though, Ellusionist only sponsors this show, but I don't see anyone here slandering the likes of David Regal, Simon Lovell or Rocco Silano for their direct participation with this show. Is this thread another rant on E, or is it about the show?

Oh good, then it's not just me that noticed this.