Celebracadabra

[Jakeh]

Jakeh, the fact that someone can take offense to your demeaning remarks does not mean they have major issues. You're lovely use of the language is highly commendable, as is your perception of women....

I can only hope you'll grow out of it.

My perception of women? How can you even say that? I made ONE comment about someone who obviously markets using the "sex sells" method, and suddenly I believe that of every women in the world? I'll have you know, 97% of my friends are women and that wouldn't be so if I walked around and called them all sluts and whore and what have you.

If someone is willing to prance around in practically nothing, then she should obviously realise that she will eventually get called up on it.

I believe that person had that opinion on magic before he saw the show, everyone wants to know how magic is achieved. (And don't try to counter that arguement with saying that your magic is so entertaining that you spectators don't want to know how, or that these "celebrities" are presenting them as tricks and not magic. Magic is all about questioning things, and people will ask how the hell it was done no matter how entertaining or well presented it was, the fact that they are left wonder is the very essence of magic.)

I wasn't going to counter the argument like that because I agree that people want to know how it's done. But the thing is, I don't like the idea of someone buying a magic DVD just because they wish to know how something was done.

And also, you make a valid arguement, "If they don't say it, I'm gonna YouTube it." This clearly shows that the show isn't revealing anything and that YouTube is a far greater threat. Secondly, it's not a secret that there are secrets in magic. There have been countless tv shows, and not the Masked Magician etc., that talk about mentoring in magic. Penn & Teller have done one such series, The Secret World of Magic aired in the UK did something similar, and another UK show called "Convetion Crasher" followed a "celebritie's" route to becoming a magician, all of which showed magic in a good light. I see no reason why Celebracadabra can't do the same.

YouTube is obviously a bigger threat, that's true, but if this show is going to direct people to YouTube when at a previous time, they wouldn't, then it's a problem. And no, I'm not saying that it was their intention to do so, it's just how it is and I don't like it.

Most people don't even know YouTube exposure exists because they don't care. I doubt very many laypeople sit on the computer and look for secrets just in case a magician happens to be at the next location they're at. But if a show is, even for a second, giving them the idea that it may exist, then I have a problem.

Simple.

Didn't think someone would actually call you out on that, did you?

I'm going to make this clear. What you said was classless, stupid, unfounded, and petty. I have no tolerance for any of the above and I am going to say so. If you can't express yourself like an intelligent human being, then save us all the trouble and don't open your mouth in the first place. I suggest you keep all that in mind in the future before you decide the word "opinion" gives you carte blanche immunity to say whatever idiotic thing you want.

I have issues? No, child. I simply stand up for what I believe in.

Okay, would you have preferred if I said, "Gee, I think the only reason some people might get into magic is because they like to follow people, such as the lady who wishes to portray herself in a manner which I find to be inappropriate?" Stripped down, what I said and that is exactly the same thing - I just summed it up in one single word. Deal with it.

What's it like being a magician who hates his audience?

This seems to be one of your "signature phrases" however, I don't quite follow. Please elaborate, and I'll reply accordingly.

 

[Steerpike]

YouTube is obviously a bigger threat, that's true, but if this show is going to direct people to YouTube when at a previous time, they wouldn't, then it's a problem.

But if a show is, even for a second, giving them the idea that it may exist, then I have a problem.

So this show is going to have flashing banner advertising YouTube exposure videos?

You said yourself that most people don't sit around looking for exposure videos. What makes you think this is going to change that?

On the rare occasion when someone says, "I saw that on YouTube," do you know what the general reaction from their friends is? "Dude, shut up." Most people don't want to know.

Okay, would you have preferred if I said, "Gee, I think the only reason some people might get into magic is because they like to follow people, such as the lady who wishes to portray herself in a manner which I find to be inappropriate?" Stripped down, what I said and that is exactly the same thing - I just summed it up in one single word. Deal with it.

You're still faulting her. No. That's not the way it works. Most men will do anything for a hot girl. We have been programmed by millions of years of evolution to chase after what we find physically attractive.

Are there guys who are going to watch the show just because Kim Wyatt is on it? Durr-hey! But is that her fault? No. I gave up blaming women for this sort of thing when I learned to take responsibility for myself and my own actions.

It's impossible to blame a woman for using the power that men (or in this case, boys) give her.

This seems to be one of your "signature phrases" however, I don't quite follow. Please elaborate, and I'll reply accordingly.

You're not stupid. You can figure it out.

 

[Jakeh]

So this show is going to have flashing banner advertising YouTube exposure videos?

You said yourself that most people don't sit around looking for exposure videos. What makes you think this is going to change that?

Hm, I suppose you're right.. but I can't help but think that some people WILL go and have a little poke around. I suppose though, the chances of me actually bumping into one of those people is highly unlikely. ESPECIALLY since, to my knowledge, it isn't airing here.

On the rare occasion when someone says, "I saw that on YouTube," do you know what the general reaction from their friends is? "Dude, shut up." Most people don't want to know.

Sadly, people around here love to put people down, so I doubt the reaction (for me) would be as gracious. But again, I've had the exact situation you described happen to me on one occasion. The girl was like "How did you do that?" to which I responded "Where's the fun in knowing?" and she said "I don't really want to know.. well, I do, but I don't." Which I suppose is what you were getting at.

You're still faulting her. No. That's not the way it works. Most men will do anything for a hot girl. We have been programmed by millions of years of evolution to chase after what we find physically attractive.

I guess something stuffed up when I was being programmed, then.

Are there guys who are going to watch the show just because Kim Wyatt is on it? Durr-hey! But is that her fault? No. I gave up blaming women for this sort of thing when I learned to take responsibility for myself and my own actions.

Well done with that, but not everyone has learned everything you have, obviously. You said you once thought the same as I did now. Right? So, in that case, you must be able to see where I'm coming from. Really, no need to get so worked up about things - especially some teenager who takes everything at face value.

You're not stupid. You can figure it out.

I'll take a crack at it, then..

You think I hate my audience because of their own curiosity? Hm, well, no, that just isn't true. I value my audience, I mean, what would be the point of magic if there were no audience? But on that same note, where will magic be if the audience knows everything?

Oh, and before you go and pick apart that last sentence, yes, it was an exaggeration, but hopefully you get my point.

 

[Steerpike]

Hm, I suppose you're right.. but I can't help but think that some people WILL go and have a little poke around. I suppose though, the chances of me actually bumping into one of those people is highly unlikely. ESPECIALLY since, to my knowledge, it isn't airing here.

People like that were going to eventually anyway. What difference does it make?

I guess something stuffed up when I was being programmed, then.

You can claim differently, but no one's going to believe for a nanosecond that you're different from every other guy on the planet and don't have a radar that senses hot women up to a radius of 30 yards.

Well done with that, but not everyone has learned everything you have, obviously.

That doesn't mean I should suffer the incompetence of others.

You said you once thought the same as I did now. Right? So, in that case, you must be able to see where I'm coming from.

Which gives me all the more reason to resent it. This sort of thing drives me up the wall.

It doesn't matter how many female friends you claim to have. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and I'm right.

You think I hate my audience because of their own curiosity? Hm, well, no, that just isn't true. I value my audience, I mean, what would be the point of magic if there were no audience? But on that same note, where will magic be if the audience knows everything?

Not quite. But you're getting warmer.

 

[Jakeh]

You can claim differently, but no one's going to believe for a nanosecond that you're different from every other guy on the planet and don't have a radar that senses hot women up to a radius of 30 yards.

You can think what you want, but honestly.. girls are of little to no interest to me.

That doesn't mean I should suffer the incompetence of others.

I'm sure quite a few people were thinking the same when you had that mindset.

It doesn't matter how many female friends you claim to have.

Of course it does. You and that other poster claimed that I have no respect for women at all - how can that be so when practically all my friends are girls?

Not quite. But you're getting warmer.

Hints?

 

[2ndDeal]

You can claim differently, but no one's going to believe for a nanosecond that you're different from every other guy on the planet and don't have a radar that senses hot women up to a radius of 30 yards.

Different from every other guy on the planet? Not every guy is after every single woman they find attractive. Big portion of certain age group might be, but not nearly every guy.

That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and I'm right.

Open mind is neccessary to have an intelligent discussion, and you seem to enforce that fact.

But, Steerpike, I want to thank you for opening my eyes. Next time I read a thread talking about how great Kaos is, instead of pitying those fooled by marketing I'm going to laugh at them.

Note the sarcasm.

 

[Steerpike]

You can think what you want, but honestly.. girls are of little to no interest to me.

You're think of seeking relationships. I'm thinking of the gut-level attraction we feel to biological triggers, whether or not we're interested in actively pursuing a certain individual.

I'm sure quite a few people were thinking the same when you had that mindset.

Good.

Of course it does. You and that other poster claimed that I have no respect for women at all - how can that be so when practically all my friends are girls?

I've known guys in my life who had a lot of female friends, but still didn't get it. They still blamed women for their own mistakes.

Different from every other guy on the planet? Not every guy is after every single woman they find attractive. Big portion of certain age group might be, but not nearly every guy.

From the cradle to the grave, our DNA is encoded to chase tail.

You may not be on the market right now, but if you can tell me that you see a beautiful woman pass by you and you don't instinctively notice her good looks, you're either gay or lying.

There's nothing to be ashamed of in admitting you think about sex. It's perfectly normal.

Open mind is neccessary to have an intelligent discussion, and you seem to enforce that fact.

Don't give me that. That meme is used most commonly by people who are losing an argument.

I'll let you talk, but don't think for even a nanosecond that I'm obligated to agree with any of it.

But, Steerpike, I want to thank you for opening my eyes. Next time I read a thread talking about how great Kaos is, instead of pitying those fooled by marketing I'm going to laugh at them.

Note the sarcasm.

That loud whooshing noise you hear is every single point I've been trying to make going straight over your head.

 

[Chase]

Oooooooo-K. So, going back to Celebrecadabra. Celebracedabra. Celebr- Holy $#!% that's a terrible name.
I watched the sneak preview.
My thoughts:
1. It wasn't bad. You know what would have made it better? Celebrities. You know. Actual celebrities. Who the hell are the people on this show? Who is ANT and why the %*&# is on my television? The only one of these people I've ever heard of is Thomas C Howell from movies when I was like 11. Oh, and the fat beach boy's daughter. How can someone named "Carnie" be so terrible at a magic pitch?
2. Why are magicians such tastless weirdos? Franz Harrary looks like he fell out of an 80's video. I respect the heck out of Jeff McBride as a magician, but damn he needs a good woman to dress him. He wore a freaking "thriller" jacket, then ceremonial robes. When Murray Sawchuck and David Regal are coming across as the "normal guys", you are in a giant group of freaks. I hope Rocco snaps and kills someone.

 

[2ndDeal]

From the cradle to the grave, our DNA is encoded to chase tail.

OK now I get that. I thought you meaned more active "radar".

Don't give me that. That meme is used most commonly by people who are losing an argument.

True, but your attitude "I'm right you're wrong" suggests that you're more interested in winning an argument than discussing subject.

That loud whooshing noise you hear is every single point I've been trying to make going straight over your head.

Straight me if I'm wrong.

You said, that people who complain marketing do it because of themselves. They fear falling into it. So, I meaned that some of us probably think about others than themselves.

You also compared Ellusionists advertising to all other advertising. That is what I mean. My point is that I don't want that beginning magic is so commercial. Yes, it is commercial currently. I don't like it. No more, no less.

 

[b.boulton]

O Steerpike...how I love you ability to multi-quote a message and somehow through in valid and reasonable arguments...how you dazzle me.

About the show...Someone told me that the one that was shown was the preview...the full thing hasn't aired yet.

Is this true?



-Brad

 

[PMR]

My perception of women? How can you even say that? I made ONE comment about someone who obviously markets using the "sex sells" method, and suddenly I believe that of every women in the world? I'll have you know, 97% of my friends are women and that wouldn't be so if I walked around and called them all sluts and whore and what have you.

I was commenting on this occasion of your choice of words. This one comment is still you talking about a person, and it's still not going to reflect on you well. The "sex sells" method is a method used by the majority of popstars. Obviously people can see through it, like yourself, but the fact is that it's a marketing method, that does sell. Slandering her in such a manner however, is inappropiate to this discussion entirely and is only going to undermine you as person.

I wasn't going to counter the argument like that because I agree that people want to know how it's done. But the thing is, I don't like the idea of someone buying a magic DVD just because they wish to know how something was done.

That's not the fault of E, which you seem to be blaming. Anyone can google "Magic tricks" etc. and will come up with an endless amount of websites that sell magic dvds. It's not E that determines why people buy their dvds. Secondly, anyone, magicians included, buy these dvds because of the very fact that they want to find out how something was done.

YouTube is obviously a bigger threat, that's true, but if this show is going to direct people to YouTube when at a previous time, they wouldn't, then it's a problem. And no, I'm not saying that it was their intention to do so, it's just how it is and I don't like it.

Most people don't even know YouTube exposure exists because they don't care. I doubt very many laypeople sit on the computer and look for secrets just in case a magician happens to be at the next location they're at.

You'll notice there is a bit of uncertainity in your opinion here. YouTube exposure exists. Not many care. E does not promote YouTube exposure, not do they hint at such a thing exists in their marketing, nor do they even condone it in the magic realm. If someone wants to find out how a magic effect is done, I'm pretty sure they'll find a cheaper way than buying a dvd. The likes of YouTube, and other video sites (I'll add that poor performances by "magicians" expose just as much) and the likes of torrent sites are going to be the weapon of choice in finding methods.

 

[PMR]

Now, can we get back to the topic of the show and not it's sponsors?

 

[Steerpike]

True, but your attitude "I'm right you're wrong" suggests that you're more interested in winning an argument than discussing subject.

I'm just that confident.

You said, that people who complain marketing do it because of themselves. They fear falling into it. So, I meaned that some of us probably think about others than themselves.

It still comes from a position of selfishness. My experience is that the world does not need to be saved from our temptations.

What bugs me most about this situation is that more magicians are focused on what imaginary control they're going to have to exercise rather than milking this media stunt for everything it's worth.

 

[toadwiked]

if you really want to know how the show looks go to vh1.com amd watch the first show. its alright. if someone buys a trick and spends the time to do it what are the chances that they will see you preform and why would they give away something just to make you look like an ass. plus, most will see the prices at E and not buy any thing. If you are not into street racing you are not going to spend $20,000 to sup up your car. I don't think the average person is going to spend 25 to 50 dollars to learn some tricks just because. Anyway I think people are getting hyped of over nothing.

Toad