Sorry to sound like a jerk but HAS THIS EVER GOTTEN OUT OF HAND!!! Is Theory 11 just a fancy name for a flourish website!?! I'M TIRED OF SEEING VIDEO AFTER VIDEO OF PEOPLE DOING THE SAME EXACT THING!!! This is entirely my opinion but if you were magic would you be doing flourishes, let alone CARDS!?! NO!!! The only time this sight shines is when they create something new and not just a remake of something else (which in all honesty hasn't been anything). So go ahead and flame me with how much flourishes are good and "blah blah blah I wanna be just like Dan and Dave blah blah blah" Can't you find your own niche? If you like flourishes go for it. I have no problem with it but I hate how it's like, what everybody at Theory 11 does. Everybody just tries to be like everybody else. To be honest I hate cards and I hate coins. They're good utilities and I DO use them but we're MAGICIANS!!! We look SUPERNATURAL!!! Not, "what a slick prankster trickster" but MAGICAL!!! We make things happen that couldn't possibly happen and distort people's imaginations! How can we expand their world if we can't expand beyond the deck of cards!?! If you agree with me get some REAL stuff. Not "Card Trick/Flourishes/Card Card Cardilly Cards" but something like Banachek's PK Touches, Jay Sankey: Supernatural, Luke Jermay material, or even a set of cups and balls with a Michael Ammar DVD. Ditch the card cliche. It took me awhile to realize cards are so overused and I look like every other magician when I use them. Somebody said "Can't you do anything else other than card tricks?" and right there I thought "They're right. It's all cards cards cards and no MAGIC." Luckily I knew some sleight of hand from an old Ammar DVD and blew them away. I need to be different. So nothing against people who truly wanted to become CARDICIANS (which is real if you don't know) when they came here but when good magicians use cards cards cards cards it's so boring, predictable, and shows you have the average talent. Break the mold! Theory 11, if you delete this I can understand but if you're the site you claim to be you'll let us have opinions...
Enough With Card Flourishes?
- Thread starter Sands
- Start date
I didn't read the whole rant, but I got the gist of it. I agree, this is supposed to be a magic website, and 99.9% of the videos accepted in the media section are flourishing... it gets very old rather quickly. I submitted a video two months ago of me performing Schwing, which Chris Kenner himself said it was good, and they still haven't accepted it. Come on, guys. Now it will probably never get put up because I complained about it, but oh well...
Be different
I actually agree with you. Card tricks kinda predictable and WAY too much of the flourishes on these websites are just like some other artist. We are magicians, not just that but were artist. We need to astonish or even Scare our audience. The thing is we need to be different from the rest. Daniel Madison uses card effect but their different than any other. The reason why is because he doesn't make it into another trick he makes it into a miracle. This is something that sadly, to many people forget.
I actually agree with you. Card tricks kinda predictable and WAY too much of the flourishes on these websites are just like some other artist. We are magicians, not just that but were artist. We need to astonish or even Scare our audience. The thing is we need to be different from the rest. Daniel Madison uses card effect but their different than any other. The reason why is because he doesn't make it into another trick he makes it into a miracle. This is something that sadly, to many people forget.
I was in a magic store once and a guy came in and was doing some card manipulation. The owner, whom I respect and admire for his knowledge in magic, said that's nice but can you do something that fools me? From that point on I never tried to do any flourishing, but to each his own.
I agree with you.
I agree with you.
Yeah! And what the hell's up with screwdrivers? I swear, everywhere I go, people are using screwdrivers! There's just no creativity, I swear. I mean, can't we branch out past this screwdriver thing? Use some nails, or a riveter, or learn how to weld. What the hell is wrong with you people? Screwdrivers, feh.
D
Deleted member 2755
Guest
Well you are entitled to your opinion, but the least you could had done is separate this big wall of text into paragraphs so it's not frustrating to read, and not be so offensive.
Well, I can see where you are coming from, you are only looking at the shell of things.
1. We have Control coming out this Friday. I love tricks that don't use card and I'm in high school. However, some people here actually work in magic. Such a person here is Steve Simmons. I forgot where he said he works, but some resteraunt or bar in Maryland. Are people going to want to see something like Control? Well maybe, but it's not his style. Everyone has a style in magic. Steve said in a post a while ago he's not going to bother getting Control as it would go right on his shelf and collect dust.
2. Not everyone here is a flourisher, however I will agree that a lot of videos here are of flourishes. Flourishes just plain look awesome. Some do it in addition to magic, and then there are those like De'vo that focus only on card flourishing. It's really up to you. However, I will agree that a lot of magic videos are of flourishing, but look at the media section, you will find there are indeed performance videos. Yes, I would like to see some more videos of people performing magic for people though. (I plan on making some stuff soon to upload.)
3. Also, if people want to be like other people what is wrong with that? If I'm an experienced flourisher (which I'm not,) and I like Trilogy, why wouldn't I buy it. There is a ton of great stuff on there. It would take much more time to make up my own stuff. Besides, most people here aren't trying to get on tv. Most people here just want to look cool when using a deck of cards either for magic, flourishes, or a combination.
4. Card magic is not boring. Maybe your presentation is a problem. (Don't feel I'm attacking you as I'm not. I'm saying this is a possibility.) You wouldn't believe that I get reactions from just using a riffle force then "reading" the spectator's mind to get their card. ACR is amazing. You will get great reactions. (When I get a good ACR, I plan on getting Fallen. Looks great.)
5. Please tell me that Panic, TNR, Control, and Digital Dissolve (don't own Digital Dissolve and I'll be ordering Control on Friday) aren't super natural. TNR is AMAZING! Sure it's with cards, sure Panic is with cards, but its not your average "I'll find your card" trick. TNR is taking a card and restoring it. Control stops your pulse. Digital Dissolve turns one coin into another. You'll also find that people here talk about tricks like Factory Sealed (which is great, I recommend it) and Stigmata. There are many great effects people buy here that are not card tricks. However, it is just some people's style. You can be the world's greatest mentalist and never pick up a deck of cards in your life. It's really what you want to do.
Judging by your post count I can see you are new here. Look around the forums a bit more and I think you'll realize you were a bit off in this post.
-Doug
-edit-
Sorry for got to mention that Witness by Lee Asher is also sick.
I love it. 
Are you really THAT pissed about cardistry?
Many people dedicate their life to this.
1. Magic can still be "magical" even though cards are used often. Most powerful effects are done with cards. And they're the traditional outlook to our audience.
- Quit complaining. If you really want our card reputation to change, then DO SOMETHING. Don't just flame.
2. Just because people "overdo" the card routines doesn't mean they're talented. I'm not going to praise De'vo or D&D to keep it at a reasonable and non-biased level.
3. You were asked if you did anything else other than card tricks. AND YET, YOU FLAME US FOR IT? If you had the right performance, you wouldn't bore, or overdo the card routines. We post these videos because this is a site based on magic and cardistry. What would you expect? Your own perfect world? Not gonna happen buddy.
4.As you go further in your speech, you seem like you're advertising these products. You didn't need to name the whole sets of DVD's and where to find them. This is what other theories of magic are for.
Transformation
Penetration
Restoration
Mentalism
Levitation
These theories can be used to make magic other than just by using cards.
As I said before, yes magic may be overlooked as just a bunch of card tricks, but there ARE other tricks out there. It's your opinion if we need to change the outlook of our spectators.
And you may have the perfect opportunity to fix that.
If you don't like us.... then use short sentences. XD
But seriously use shorter sentences that get to the point quicker because most people see that "wall of text" and don't read it all.
As for the magic part... I half agree... my view is that if you can fool the layman... you are solid.
Don't perform for other magicians, they just sit there and try to figure out what you're doing.
Plus... cards are cheaper (usually) than stage effects. So I'll just stick with my cards.
But seriously use shorter sentences that get to the point quicker because most people see that "wall of text" and don't read it all.
As for the magic part... I half agree... my view is that if you can fool the layman... you are solid.
Don't perform for other magicians, they just sit there and try to figure out what you're doing.
Plus... cards are cheaper (usually) than stage effects. So I'll just stick with my cards.
I have a few videos.
One is Dice Stacking... No cards or coins.
And in another I turn a Monkey into a Dog... Purely magical.
We appreciate your opinion here at T11. However we do have different categories in our media section. Some of these kids are truly amazing and I agree that flourishing is taking over the world. So I would suggest to take a look at everything MINUS the "cardistry/fourishing" section. See? Problem solved.
Flourishing is pretty much the future of magic. I have accepted this and now I'm excited to see where it is going to go. It won't be long until flourishing will involve miracles and astound the bahjeesus out of us all.
Happy to have you here on the forums.
Katie
One is Dice Stacking... No cards or coins.
And in another I turn a Monkey into a Dog... Purely magical.
We appreciate your opinion here at T11. However we do have different categories in our media section. Some of these kids are truly amazing and I agree that flourishing is taking over the world. So I would suggest to take a look at everything MINUS the "cardistry/fourishing" section. See? Problem solved.
Flourishing is pretty much the future of magic. I have accepted this and now I'm excited to see where it is going to go. It won't be long until flourishing will involve miracles and astound the bahjeesus out of us all.
Happy to have you here on the forums.
Katie
there u go..
and all the people that doesnt like cardistry vids if u dont like it, then dont watch them =)
I partially agree. I think that if people want to do it, and if people enjoy to do it and share it with other people who want to do it. However, I, too, have had experiences during which specators groan at the sight of mere cards. I think there are an exellent magic tool, but are becomeing a bit of a cliche.
Well it's our opinion in what we use... you can go ahead and practice some other tricks other than cards. But some people just like to deal with cards.
This is just a hobby for me and if I wanted to go serious with this, I would definatley go and learn some other tricks such as coin and some other magic things...
This is just a hobby for me and if I wanted to go serious with this, I would definatley go and learn some other tricks such as coin and some other magic things...
I think that cards are only perceived as being cliche'd within the magic community. We hold everything that we do under a microscope and scrutinize. I've not only seen it here but other places as well. I don't think that the lay person finds cards/flourishing cliche'd because it's not something that the average person gets to see everyday....we do.
Personally, I don't do Flourishing/XCM/Cardistry or whatever you want to call it. However, I do find it fascinating to watch and respect the skill and dedication it takes to master some of these moves. On Occasion I will incorporate a couple of the moves to spark an interest in others and go on to a routine from there.
Personally, I don't do Flourishing/XCM/Cardistry or whatever you want to call it. However, I do find it fascinating to watch and respect the skill and dedication it takes to master some of these moves. On Occasion I will incorporate a couple of the moves to spark an interest in others and go on to a routine from there.
I am sick of people that come along and decide to rant incomprehensibly for big slabs for text. Or are you sick of paragraphs also?
Great comments but don't let this get out of hand. Sorry if you don't like reading a wall of text. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of books but that's what they are too. Anyway I don't want to get angry here. I'm not new by the way, I just haven't been to into this site. My opinion is that this site is a remake of old tricks. Digital Dissolve is just a copper silver transposition. Really think about that. Is that an effect you like? Not me. Witness is Indecent (which I've read in a kids book before) redone, Panic is taught impromptu by David Stone even better and is an old idea, TnR is Torn redone (maybe better but just T11 COPY of an E trick), even Control is a pulse stop taught with a HUGE routine by Luke Jermay. I mean don't try to point out the few magic performances for the billions of flourish videos. I liked flourishes back when Dan and Dave first came out. It was a cool new idea. I watched video after video. Then after a month or so I vomited every time I saw some guy with a deck of cards doing what looked like the exact same thing but this time it moved to the left and not the right. Woo! Sorry but I really don't think spectators care. They might go "Wow! Alright now the trick?" they aren't going to stand there and watch you fidget around with the cards. They get bored. I have nothing wrong with my card presentations, I use cards all the time HOWEVER I don't make them my life. That's why I'm going to get farther in the magic world. I'd rather levitate, read somebody's mind, and create MY OWN innovative ideas about concepts I LIKE. I might decide to create a hand through glass effect. I might end up creating a self-vanish. All the while YOU people are watching (again no offense) flourish and card videos where guys teach you how to do something they made up just so you can pick one of them so you can show it to somebody and they'll go "That was pretty neat. Now what?". I don't want to have to filter out 96,000 flourish videos so I can choose from four 0:03 second clips of somebody doing a coin vanish or something. People need to (put frankly) stop posing others. That's it in it's pure form. Stop posing!!! DO YOU THINK FAMOUS MAGICIANS GOT TO WHERE THEY WERE BECAUSE THEY WERE LIKE SOME OTHER GUY!?! DAN AND DAVE WEREN'T COPYING SOMEBODY, THEY BROKE THE MOLD AND YOU'RE TRYING TO BE LIKE THEM. WHILE YOU'RE COPYING, I'M MAKING MY OWN SENSATION!!!
Noone here stated that they want to be famous... but I do see your point and I highly agree.
If you want to become a pro at this, you should come up with your own concepts. But it also doesn't hurt to use other people's move as well.
If you want to become a pro at this, you should come up with your own concepts. But it also doesn't hurt to use other people's move as well.
No, books are written in things called "paragraphs", and this sentence should have been the end of your first paragraph. The problem is not too much text, but too few paragraphs.
Imagine that you're speaking out loud. Where you take a short breath, that's a comma. Where you take a long breath, that's a period. And when you actually pause, that's a paragraph. The formal rules are much more complicated, but this guideline is shockingly accurate.
Well, duh. Do you really think there's something out there that nobody thought of in the past four hundred years? Unless you're a genius, the greatest realistic possibility for you is to rediscover something people have forgotten.
And even that won't happen until you have enough imagination to see the possibilities of flourishing. Which you don't.
Most magic is the same trick over and over.
Again, duh. They never care. That's why they're not magicians. That's why so many lame-ass tricks still work.
Bet you don't! I've got $500 that says you'll earn less than $1,000 from magic in the next year.
And I've got $5,000 that says you won't do that.
You're not doing squat. You're talking smack on the internet.
I'm working on my injog shuffle, because it sucks. I didn't know it sucked last week, but this week I'm reading a few books and watching a few videos (on YouTube, OH NOES) and it sucks.
And since you're being such a jerk, I predict that you can't market yourself anyway. Which is why I'm willing to put cash on the line to say you won't achieve a damn thing.
Books have paragraphs. And indentations. Try them. (Edit: Dangit! CDarklock beat me on that point.)
Katie: I thought you were hotter doing a hot-shot cut in a hoodie than you were in lingerie holding red Guardians. But I hope that cardistry is NOT the future of magic. Cardistry is definitely a surging art that is obsessively impressive. But cardistry, to me, offers miracles in the form of appreciation, not amazement. The audience of a cardist leaves astounded at a display of dexterity, not mystery.
I have never heard an audience, after doing a Biddle trick or ACR, say, "Wow, did you see his dexterity?" They're asking, "How the heck did he do that?"
I can see why, in today's Internet-driven rash of exposures, magicians wouldn't want to release new tricks. In fact, flourishes seem the perfect counter to this, since they demand much more skill.
But I think T11 offers a good mix of the two now. The 1-on-1s are a good blend of tricks with flourishes. I'm OK with users submitting flourishes upon flourishes, but I hope T11 doesn't leave magic behind.